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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 1 John 1:8

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TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Hi Brother,

No problem. I've enjoyed discussing the passage!


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Taylor Otwell

 2009/3/5 21:24Profile
jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Re:

One thing I've found is that the more a christian grows, the more they realize their total insufficiency apart from Christ. I know some define sin as a known violation of God's law.

 2009/3/5 21:25Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

I agree, brother. May the Lord help us all to see our utter insufficiency. As the Lord told the Pharisees - [i]"Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."[/i] (John 9:41)

With care in Christ,
Taylor


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Taylor Otwell

 2009/3/5 21:28Profile
jlosinski
Member



Joined: 2006/9/11
Posts: 294
North Pole, Alaska

 Re:

Hey, thanks for the thoughts Taylor. So, how would I respond to those that may see this passage as referring to those that are not in Christ? I'm inclined to direct my class to the fact that there is a desire for holiness in true Christians, regardless of how they choose to word it, ie. "progressive vs entire".

 2009/3/5 22:28Profile
wtninChrist
Member



Joined: 2009/2/17
Posts: 41
Muscle Shoals, AL

 Re: 1 John 1:8

Frist John is a outline of the christian character were by we can examine our lives . Here we can test ourself by the word, to examine ourself to see if we are in the faith. In 1 John 1:8 one who will say I have no sin. A christian can not say I have no sin. A christian will say without grace and the power of the spirit all I can do is sin, there is nothing good in me and if it was not for grace worked in my heart I would sin against Him all the time. In this you see the character of the christian to sin. If your only hope is in what Christ did you will find assurance in the text. If your hope is in what you have done or any other work of man you will find no peace.

 2009/3/6 0:18Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Quote:
Frist John is a outline of the christian character were by we can examine our lives . Here we can test ourself by the word, to examine ourself to see if we are in the faith. In 1 John 1:8 one who will say I have no sin. A christian can not say I have no sin. A christian will say without grace and the power of the spirit all I can do is sin, there is nothing good in me and if it was not for grace worked in my heart I would sin against Him all the time.



This is well said and in line with Scripture...

This reminds me of this believer's testimony...

.................................................

Psa 119:1 Blessed [are] the undefiled in the way, Who walk in the law of the LORD!

Psa 119:2 Blessed [are] those who keep His testimonies, Who seek Him with the whole heart!

Psa 119:3 They also do no iniquity; They walk in His ways.

Psa 119:4 You have commanded [us] To keep Your precepts diligently.

Psa 119:5 Oh, that my ways were directed To keep Your statutes!

Psa 119:6 Then I would not be ashamed, When I look into all Your commandments.

Psa 119:7 I will praise You with uprightness of heart, When I learn Your righteous judgments.

Psa 119:8 I will keep Your statutes; Oh, do not forsake me utterly!

Psa 119:9 How can a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed according to Your word.

Psa 119:10 With my whole heart I have sought You; Oh, let me not wander from Your commandments!

Psa 119:11 Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You.

Psa 119:12 Blessed [are] You, O LORD! Teach me Your statutes.

..............................................

John's testimony is the same as the writer of Pslam 119...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2009/3/6 8:18Profile
MattChenier
Member



Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 121
Longview,WA

 Re:

I am not posting these scriptures to say that we don't have the ability to sin. I am posting these scriptures to show that sin is not supposed to be always present in your life as a believer.

1 John 3


3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


Also, the bible says love not the world for the love of the world is enmity with God. The only way to sin is to take your affection off of the Kingdom of God and place it on this world. Then, you will mind the things of this world and seek them. Will God permit you to enter the Kingdom of God if you are his enemy and love the world? If you are resurrected with Christ, you are supposed to be alive to the Kingdom of God and dead to the world. If you mind the things of the world, you are not dead and therefore cannot be resurrected. What did Jesus tell Peter when he set his affections on the things of the world? "Get thee behind me Satan!" For thou savorest not the things which be of God but the things which be of man. Any time you have a sin in your life that is not defeated, you are standing on the outside of the Kingdom of God, you are standing in the world. For to have one sin remaining in your life is to place the world before God. Does an Idolater have a place in the Kingdom of God? No. But we are supposed to be dead to sin. DEAD. Not alive to it. You can't be alive to God and the world. It is not possible. One sin is enough to make you dead to God. If you have sin, don't fight against it in yourself, die to the world and you will no longer value it over the Kingdom of God.



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Matt Chenier

 2009/3/6 14:22Profile









 Re:

Quote:
The Arminian/Wesleyan view is probably quick to claim that this is definitely an unbeliever, because they feel that a Christian could use this as an excuse for sin. I think you will find it is dangerous to establish beliefs in this manner (by reacting to a perceived danger in the belief).



Thank you brother Taylor, I have seen this myself. Surely John is not giving believers an excuse to walk in known / willful sin here though he is speaking of believers. Sin clearly no longer has dominion over a true believer. I think this is where this verse gets many, they refuse to acknowledge the difference between willful/known and unwillful sin. That is why so many in the holiness, sinless perfection crowd take the route of calling their sin by another name.

Goerge Whitfield said:

Quote:
...were Jesus Christ only to accept us according to our works, our works would damn us, for we cannot put up a prayer but it is far from that perfection which the moral law requireth. I do not know what you may think, but I can say that I cannot pray but I sin -- I cannot preach to you or any others but I sin -- I can do nothing without sin; and, as one expresseth it, my repentance wants to be repented of, and my tears to be washed in the precious blood of my dear Redeemer.



Editted to take out last sentance that was not edifying...

-Jim

 2009/3/6 16:30
clintstone
Member



Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201
tulsa,ok.

 Re:

Hello, brothers .. matt , mike ,taylor.. Good posting matt . The verse here in this passage is so out of line, because it is not interpreted correctly. It cannot be interpreted correctly because it does not fit in with verse 6,7 nor does it fit in with 1 john 3:4-6. the amplified bible does not even have it stated as it should read . first , this passage is not refering to sanctification , but it is refering to justification. it is immedietly preceeded by the assertion , " the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin." so verse 8 could not be saying "that if we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves ", and this could not be said right after " the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin " come on , all exspositors and preachers, represent Jesus better ,please ! , i beg of you to learn this. John the apostle would never contradict himself .in verse nine John says it again " that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all unrighteousness ",if we are cleansed from all unrighteous ness we are cleansed fron all sin.John is speaking of being Justified here , not sanctification.here is the meaning of the whole passage as given by charles finney....If we say that we are not sinners , that is , have no need of the blood of Jesus Christ ; that we have never sinned, and consequently need no savior, we deceive ourselves. For we have sinned, and nothing but the blood of Christ cleanseth us from sin, or procures are pardon and justification. And now, if we will not deny , but confess that we have sinned, " He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." " But if we say we have not sinned we make Him aliar, and His word is not in us." ... Now to the lords prayer ... it would also be a flat contradiction for Jesus to have us pray for it to be here on earth as it is in heaven , and then have us to pray for sins that we keep commiting to be forgiven. it is a sinless state in heaven. we can only ask Christ for forgiveness only when we have repented , so the lords prayer is for forgiveness of past sins. the lords prayer is only having a renewed abhorence and grief over our past sins,and a fresh acknowledgement of , and a casting ourselves upon His mercy. His having Forgiven us does not make the potition improper..


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Clint Demoret

 2009/3/7 0:38Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Clint wrote:


Quote:
the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin." so verse 8 could not be saying "that if we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves ", and this could not be said right after " the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin "



We have this thought given to us in Scripture...
..............................................................................
Psa. 119:1 Blessed are the undefiled in the way,
Who walk in the law of the LORD!
2 Blessed are those who keep His testimonies,
Who seek Him with the whole heart!
3 They also do no iniquity;
They walk in His ways.
.............................................................................

Likewise John who knows the Scriptures writes this...

..............................................................................

1 John:

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

............................................................................................

These two sections of Scripture say the same thing do they not?

Likewise if we continue, we find this parallel of these two sections of Scripture....
.........................................................................................
Psalm 119:
4 You have commanded us
To keep Your precepts diligently.
5 Oh, that my ways were directed
To keep Your statutes!
6 Then I would not be ashamed,
When I look into all Your commandments.
7 I will praise You with uprightness of heart,
When I learn Your righteous judgments.
8 I will keep Your statutes;
Oh, do not forsake me utterly!
9 How can a young man cleanse his way?
By taking heed according to Your word.
...............................................................................

and

..............................................................................
1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
..............................................................................

John and the writer of Psalm 119 have shared with us the same precept...

Remember, John finishes this exhortation with these words..."My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin."

If one continues in John's letter we find this thought....

.........................................................................................
12 I write to you, little children,
Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I write to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
Because you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, little children,
Because you have known the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.
................................................................................................

The writer of Psalms 119 writes....

......................................................................

9 How can a young man cleanse his way?
By taking heed according to Your word.
10 With my whole heart I have sought You;
Oh, let me not wander from Your commandments!
11 Your word I have hidden in my heart,
That I might not sin against You.
12 Blessed are You, O LORD!
Teach me Your statutes.
13 With my lips I have declared
All the judgments of Your mouth.
14 I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies,
As much as in all riches.
15 I will meditate on Your precepts,
And contemplate Your ways.
16 I will delight myself in Your statutes;
I will not forget Your word.
17 Deal bountifully with Your servant,
That I may live and keep Your word.
.......................................................................................

Please notice that John divides the body of believers into three groups and then distinguishes each group from one another. Then meditate on how a "young man" cleanses his way, according to what is written in Psalm 119 above...

Just some bread to feed upon...

God Bless
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2009/3/7 7:32Profile





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