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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : TRADITION

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Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


I work five days a week.

God instituted the Sabbath at the Creation of the world:

"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.

AND GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, AND SANCTIFIED IT: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made." Gen 2:1-3.

Long before there was a Jewish nation.

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach into them that dwell upon the earth, AND TO EVERY NATION, AND KINDRED, AND TONGUE AND PEOPLE.

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: AND WORSHIP HIM THAT MADE HEAVEN, AND EARTH, AND THE SEA, AND THE FOUNTAINS OF WATER." Rev 14:6,7.

When we honor Him on the Sabbath, we celebrate Him as Creator.

"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY: and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour Him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." Isa 58:13,14.

A sign of The Antichrist is "...he thinks to change times and laws." Dan 7:25. There is, only, one time in His Covenant - the Sabbath.

She, only, "thinks to change," because no man/institution can over-rule our Creator and change His law.

The Roman Catholic Church claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and she calls it her mark of authority to over-rule God's law.

Now, do you see why it is so important to honor Him on the Sabbath?

 2009/3/4 16:46Profile

Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453


How important was keeping the Sabbath to the Apostles? They mention it once in their 21 epistles.

"16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Col. 2:15-16

Wayne Kraus

 2009/3/4 17:09Profile

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


You are referring to the Ceremonial law - the Sabbath Feast Days:

Passover: Our Passover Lamb
Unleavened Bread: He was without sin
Tabernacles: He "tabernacled among us."

If you want to read more about the Ceremonial law...refer to this post a few pages ago.

The Ceremonial law pointed to the sacrifice of Jesus, and was fulfilled, and nailed to the cross.

If you do a search under "Sabbath," you will find that the children of Israel, Jesus, His disciples, and the New Testament Christians kept the Sabbath holy.

The women wouldn't even anoint Jesus on the Sabbath, that, is why they came on Sunday.

Rome says, "Of course the Catholic Church claims the change was her act...and the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." Thomas, H.F. Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath.

Rome says, "It's (Sunday's change for Saturday) the mark of our authority to over-rule God's law." Father Enright, C.S.S.R., President of Redemptorist College, History of the Sabbath, p. 802.

"Sunday is our mark of authority...The church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, Sept 1, 1923.

"The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, No! by my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And,lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church." Father Enright.

 2009/3/4 17:16Profile

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2149

 Re: Seventh Day Adventism Damnable Heresy

"It shall Greatly Helpe Ye to Understand Scripture, If Thou Mark Not only What is Spoken or Written, But of Whom, And to Whom, With what Words, At what Time, Where, To what Intent, With what Circumstances, Considering what Goeth Before and what Followeth." John Wycliffe (1324-1383)

Rom. 11:1-6 I say then, Did not God thrust away His people? Let it not be! For I also am an Israelite, out of Abraham's seed, of the tribe of Benjamin. "God did not thrust away His people" whom He foreknew. (Psa. 94:14) Or do you not know what the Scripture said in Elijah, how he pleaded with God against Israel, saying, Lord, "they killed Your prophets," "and they dug down Your altars," "and only I am left, and they seek my life." (1 Kings 19:10) But what does the Divine answer say to him, "I reserved to Myself seven thousand men who did not bow a knee to Baal." (1 Kings 19:18) So then, also in the present time a remnant according to election of grace has come into being. But if by grace, no longer is it of works; else grace no longer becomes grace. But if of works, it is no longer grace; else work is no longer work.

The New Testament is clear that the believers sabbath rest is in the Person of Jesus and not in a day.

Heb. 4:3-10 For we, the ones believing, ENTER INTO THE REST, even as He said, "As I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter into My rest," though the works had come into being from the foundation of the world.For He has spoken somewhere about the seventh day this way, "And God rested from all His works in the seventh day." (Gen. 2:2) And in this again, "They shall not enter into My rest." Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those who formerly had the gospel preached did not enter in on account of disobedience, He again marks out a certain day, saying in David, Today (after so long a time, according as He has said), "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." For if Joshua gave them rest, then He would not have afterwards spoken about another day. So, then, there remains a sabbath rest to the people of God.For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS.

The fourth commandment, "Remember the Sabbath Day", is the sign, the seal of the Ten Commandments. In it, the Law Giver and His authority are identified as the Lord who made heaven and earth.

Even as circumcision was a sign, a "seal of the righteousness of the faith", given to Abraham (Rom. 4:11).

The Holy Spirit is the seal for the believer (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30, John 3:33 and 6:27; 2 Timothy 2:19)identifying us as His own as new creatures in the new creation.

Also,we have entered the kingdom of God through the new birth.

John 3:5-6 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Those of the 'remanant of the election of grace' are represented in the 144,000 in Revelation 7 & 14.

Rev. 7:2-4 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 Tim. 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

If any would like to read an article on "The Believers Sabbath" you may do so here:

If any would like to read "The Eternity of Hell Torments" you may do so here:

An excellent documentary which exposes Seventh Day Adventism was produced by Jeremiah Films and may be purchased here:

 2009/3/4 23:51Profile

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


Then why does Jesus prophesy, that, the Sabbath will be kept during The Great Tribulation, and we are not there, yet? Mt 24:20?

Was the Lord Jesus Christ in error? To say so, would be blasphemous!

Then why does God prophesy through Isaiah and say, that, we will keep the Sabbath in His Kingdom?

"For as the NEW HEAVENS and the NEW EARTH, which I will make, shall remain before Me, SAITH THE LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, SAITH THE LORD? Isa 66:22,23.

Even in His Kingdom, we will honor Him as Creator of all.

The fourth Commandment is just that - a Commandment, and not a request. If you break this Commandment, you are a transgressor of the law.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW." 1 John 3:4.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Rom 3:31

The children of Israel, Jesus, His disciples, and the New Testament Christians kept the Sabbath holy. Refer to your Concordance.

My, only, authority is the Word of God, and not tradition.

 2009/3/5 6:46Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 If we say

"If we say ..."

sscr01 wrote:
I keep all the commandments that are written in Scripture.

The Apostle Paul wrote to Timothy, ""I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers WITH PURE CONSCIENCE..." 2 Tim 1:3.

I serve Him with a pure conscience, and trust the Holy Spirit to reveal anything to me, that I need to repent of...that is what sanctification is all about.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.


If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 1Ti 6:3-5

For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. Jas 3:16-18

[b][u]Be ... ware[/u][/b]

Mat 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Mat 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?

Mat 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

[b][u]Of leaven[/u][/b]

1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Gal 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.


Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart ... Rom 9:1-2

1Co 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

1Co 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

2Co 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:


These similar posts, either on the Ten Commandments or the Sabbath are trotted out once every couple of months - cut and pasted over and over ad naussem.

One remedy, in it's entirety;

[url=]Jonathan Edwards - Undiscerned Spiritual Pride[/url]

Mike Balog

 2009/3/5 9:24Profile

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275

 Re: If we say

When we are born of His Spirit, it is His Spirit that empowers us to obey His Word/His law.

When Jesus gave us "The Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law. Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18.

"By this we know that we love the children of God, WHEN WE LOVE GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.For this is the love of God that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My Commandments." John 14:15.

Jesus said, "He that hath My commandments and keepeth them: HE IT IS THAT LOVETH ME: and he that loveth Me SHALL BE LOVED OF MY FATHER, AND I WILL LOVE HIM, and will manifest Myself to him." John 14:21.

"And this is love that we walk after His commandments." 2 John 6

"And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. He that saith, I KNOW HIM and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the Truth is not in him: but whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby we do know that we are in Him. He that saith, he abideth in Him, ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked." 1 John 2:3-6.

The children of Israel, Jesus, His disciples and the New Testament Christians kept the Sabbath holy, and so should we.

His church keeps His commandments: "And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.

His saints keep His commandments: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12.

And, finally, the Apostle John wrote, "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." REv 22:14.

If you love Him, you will keep the Ten Commandment Covenant.

If we call Him, Lord, we should obey the Word of God - His every Word.

"But be ye DOERS of the Word, and not hearers, only DECEIVING yourselves." Ja 1:22.

 2009/3/5 9:27Profile

Joined: 2009/2/1
Posts: 164


Dear ones,

Take care. Where is the gentleness and respect?

I'll plunge in: Here is the warning: Heb3:12-15

Good news with a caution: Heb4:1-10

Through faith in Christ, we enter into the rest from works (self-effort).

We are all law breakers. None of us can keep the Law. Only Jesus kept it perfectly, and because of our position in Him as believers, He is the very fulfillment of the Law in us. He is the Lord of the Sabbath, and as His followers, we must find our rest in Him daily. Man has a need for rest, but only through Christ can we find eternal rest. He is our Sabbath. By faith in Christ alone, we enter into His rest.

I am no legalist, but I still hold that God is honored when we set aside the seventh day or Sunday (the Lord's day) for rest and worship. It was in my lifetime that the Bible belt went from everything closed on Sunday to everything opened. As a child, I saw the world around me honoring God, our laws reflected the reverence for God, people thought about God because that one day was treated differently--and as the world crept in, and people forgot God, all of that changed. Personally, I find it Christ-honoring that Chick-fil-a is still closed on Sunday. What a beautiful testimony to the Lord and His day!

The Law could not save us, because it is impossible to keep it--the Law condemns us. Jesus is our rest from dead works which cannot save us from our sin. The Law reveals that we all fall short, all miss the mark, all fail. That is why we need a Savior.

But neither should we disregard the Law, because it is not abolished, but fulfilled in Christ. Heb9:22, Heb9:27-28, Heb10:1 By it, we will be judged, if we are not found in Christ, trusting in His perfect work on our behalf. The Law reflects a holy and perfect God, and His requirements for holiness and perfection are revealed in the Law. It is the mirror into which we look and see ourselves as God sees us--sinners, law breakers, destitute debtors.

If we love God, we will love His law, and He will write it on the tablets of our new hearts. Psalm 119 is the essence of what the heart of one who loves God should be. I love Christ, because He has kept the law for me; through my surrender daily, He is formed more perfectly in me. A few verses upon which to meditate:

How blessed are those whose way is blameless, who walk in the law of the Lord. Ps119:1

Thy testimonies also are my delight; they are my counselors. Ps119:24

Give me understanding, that I may observe Thy law, and keep it with all my heart. Make me walk in the path of Thy commandments, for I delight in it. Ps119:34-35

 2009/3/5 11:55Profile

 about "eternal" fire -

by sscr01

You, obviously, didn't read my entire post.

The word "forever is used 56 times in the Bible in connection with things that ahve, already, ended. In Jonah 2:6, "forever" means three days and nights. Jonah 1:17. In Deut 23:3, this means "10 generations." In the case of man, this means, "as long as he lives," or, "until death." 1 Sam 1:22,28; Ex 21:6; Ps 48:14.

This Paganism, first became a tradition of the Jews, and then went from there into Christianity.

sscr01, on page 1, you started with NT verses in your case/opinion against an "etenal fire" and I gave you this webpage for the 'Greek' of the NT verses you used.

Your answer above is using a few instances from the Hebrew language.

Two different languages and the Greek is very clear for the verses you initially gave, that are covered in the link above.

On this Sabbath topic - are we intending Saturday only?

It appears that you've been taught from someone and do not see all the Scripture that the others have provided.
In that case - this is just a major distraction from all the good here - but I felt to answer one last time about "eternal torment of fire."

Father knows Best and GOD is [still] Love!

 2009/3/5 13:07

Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275

 Re: about "eternal" fire -

A sign of The Antichrist is "...he thinks to change times and laws." There is, only, one time in His Covenant - the Sabbath.

As I have stated, the Catholic Church claims to have over-ruled God and changed the day to Sunday. Even though, Jesus referred to Himself as "The Lord of the Sabbath." Mt 12:8;Mk 2:28;Lu 6:5.

He instituted the Sabbath at Creation, long before there was a Jewish nation.

Jesus prophesied, that, the Sabbath would be kept during The Great Tribulation, and we are not there, yet. Mt 24:20.

God used Isaiah to prophesy,that we will keep the Sabbath in His kingdom. Isa 66:22,23.

You, either, obey the fourth commandment, or, you don't.

If you don't obey the commandment, you are a transgressor of the law.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW." 1 John 3:4.

Jesus said, "He that rejecteth Me and receiveth not My Words, hath one that judgeth him:THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL JUDGE HIM IN THE LAST DAY." John 12:48.

The Apostle Paul wrote, "For as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many AS HAVE SINNED IN THE LAW SHALL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW; For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED." Rom 2:12,13.

HIS WORD/HIS LAW will judge each one of us.

Again, "Do we then make VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? God forbid: yea, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." Rom 3:31.

I have covered this enough. Actually, I am calling Christians back to obedience to the Word of God. Now, you, either, choose to obey His law, or, you don't.

God calls the apostate religious system, "The Mother of harlots." Rev 17. She has traded much of the Word of God for her traditions.

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins ("the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4) and that ye receive not of HER PLAGUES.

For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." (LAWLESSNESS) Rev 18:4,5.

Jesus said, "My sheep hear My Voice, and I KNOW THEM, and they follow Me." John 10:27.

Let us obey His Word and not our denomination's traditions.

"But be ye DOERS of the Word, and not hearers, only, DECEIVING yourselves." Ja 1:22.

 2009/3/5 14:34Profile

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