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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What's so bad about money?

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moreofHim
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Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: money

One more thing I wanted to add:

Sometimes as I think about the Lord's blessing on my husband's life (ours together) and I see that this also comes because of my husbands humility. This is a humility that he is not even aware of- which makes it all the more humble. It is not a purposeful humility.

As president of his company, and now even as owner, he never takes advantage of his position. When he is with one of his employees and is being introduced to someone else- he introduces himself as a "co-worker". "I work with so and so". When someone asks him where he works, he says the name of the company but never says he owns it. When he says he works at Benner Mechanical, it sounds as if he is a technician- and he doesn't care one bit what people think.
On his business cards that he gives out, they do not say that he is owner.

When we go anywhere, he dresses like a typical college student. People feel comfortable with him. They let down their gaurd with him. He is one of them- except that inside He has Christ and he exhibits this in his character.

When he is at work, he makes himself as an equal. His humility, presence, and work ethic makes people respect him without having to rule over them. He isn't afraid to give up his office to work with everyone else if the need calls for it. He always tries to lead by example. He does chastise people at his office for cursing and unGodly behavior. But he does it in a loving "I care about you" way. He has a rputation for honesty and integrity. He would never lie or slightly change anything for the benefit of himself or the company.

I am not trying to brag about him. I have my list of faults that I too often dwell on (as many husbands/wives do) but even I need to look at these qualities in Him to appreciate him for who God made him. He may not have the spiritual insight or discernment I have, he may not chase after the Lord in every way like I feel I must, he may not read many Godly books or even the bible as much as i think he should- but God is using him because of his humility, obedience and trust in the Lord.

I really feel these are many of the reasons why the Lord has chosen to bless our family, even in our finances.

Maybe I should email today and let him read this. It may shock him to know what i really think about him. :-P I admit that I too seldom praise him or let him know these things.

In Him, Chanin


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Chanin

 2004/8/11 12:01Profile
moreofHim
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Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re:

Quote:
I am not agreeing with your statmenet for the sake of disagreement Chanin, but I just dont see any scripture on this facet in the end times. Please share any if you have insight into this. It sounds good dont get me wrong but I would request a reference please



Greg, I think what we are talking about here- about being prepared is the same as the message that David Wilkerson himself has put out. I even have his book called "God's Plan to protect His people in the coming depression". forgive me for even bringing up the subject of anything charasmaitc. I should have known that it would be rejected right away. ok, just scratch that out completely.

I have talked with many people who have felt God has called them to be prepared in a certain area. The only thing I can say is that God will take care of His people. Why wouldn't He use his own people to do plan and be a source of blessing in hard times? That's all i am saying.

It is not a new theory to say that a famine or hard times are coming. Wilkerson talks about this all the time. It is not unbiblical to say that God will help people prepare as He sees fit. What's unscriptural about that? What's the use of me saying any of this when you always question my motives? If I wouldn't have mentioned the words "joseph Company" would you not have questioned me?

I hope you are enjoying your c.d.'s by the way. I hope that the book on prayer by Oswald was not one that you already had.

love in Him, Chanin


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Chanin

 2004/8/11 12:16Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Greg, I think what we are talking about here- about being prepared is the same as the message that David Wilkerson himself has put out. I even have his book called "God's Plan to protect His people in the coming depression". forgive me for even bringing up the subject of anything charasmaitc. I should have known that it would be rejected right away. ok, just scratch that out completely.


Chanin please dont misinterpret what I am trying to say, I am not trying to throw out what you said but I thought it would be helpful to shed some scriptural support on this. I see more of an emphasis of a spiritual prepartation of the heart walking in holiness and inticaption of the Lords coming then getting my books straight and buying supplies. I am not nullifying perhaps even the need to do the latter but I think that is perhaps more clear. I think its an intresting and important subject to talk about money and the endtimes, and to see what the scriptures show.

"forgive me for even bringing up the subject of anything charasmaitc" - I am sorry but thats an unfair label, I do not condemn everything that is charismatic nor do I throw it out the window, I think alot of my beliefs and practices as a Christian could be considered Charismatic to some extent. Even the Magazine Reviewer for that UK site labeled the site charismatic without blinking an eye, and thats due to the downloads conent which dont have quote un quote charismatic speakers in abundance. Its more the spirit of the site, the openess to what God is wanting to be taught and shown is the charismatic aspect of the site which is a good thing :-)

There are alot of dubious things talking place in many charismatic circles and I have a right to disdain and even feel grieved over some or many of these things. I hope people on the site who know me dont think I am anti-spirit not allowing the spirit of God to move etc.. I desire so much for God to work in peoples lifes in this site and my own, I desire for true apostolic christianity to be restored.. but do I have to agree fully with the brand that is being offered in the mainstream today?

Quote:
What's the use of me saying any of this when you always question my motives?


I truly don't and feel sometimes that I shouldn't even reply to any of your post for the reason of being mis-intrepreted. I have alot of respect for you and hope that you know I think highly of you. I do not at ALL go around thinking how I can make anyone on this site feel bad or question them. That is the farthest thing from the truth in my own motives and if it comes across different than im sorry.

Quote:
I hope you are enjoying your c.d.'s by the way. I hope that the book on prayer by Oswald was not one that you already had.


I cant thank you enough its blessing my life and instead of getting something quickly back to you like a note I have been preparing a package of my own to send to you. Your family have been such a blessing in my life and this ministry and I really want to make that clear.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/8/11 12:34Profile
moreofHim
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Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re:

Is there a trouble maker amongst us? if so, it is from the enemy. this should not be so. these points like these are not worth arguing about. if in the future, you are in a position where you needed money or some kind of help- and the Lord had led us to prepare for that and have extra money or whatever that may be- I think you might be glad that we could help you and it would be by the Lord's hand and grace.

yes, spiritual preperation is difinitely necessary- no doubt. there is nothing compared to that. but that doesn't mean He will not prepare us in other ways. we support you financially- we do this because the Lord has made it clear that your site needs to be provided for- even if hard times come. is this "unscriptural". no - it is from the Lord.

yes, the Lord will do miraculous things when times are tough- and He will also use His people to do those miraculous things through. i hope He is already doing that.

Love In Him, Chanin


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Chanin

 2004/8/11 12:40Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:


Hi there Brother Greg! ... You quoted my post:


--- As far as i can see there is nothing wrong with money/wealth as long as it's totally understood who it all belongs to, and if He bestows upon you the gift of 'stewardship" why you've been given money/wealth in the first place ... Scripture plainly points out that it's the "love of money/wealth" that's the problem ---


Then you commented on my post;


---I would say that isnt a rule to be followed. The Life of Jesus and the apostles and the teachings of Jesus point more to a people that are lowly and give money away to the poor. A people captivated with the spiritual and not with the material. True there can be some that are rich, even VERY rich in the things of this earth and still have a heart for God and be following him. But I would not paint a rule that anyone can be rich and at the same time feel its within the boundaries of spiritual chrisitan life. Paul the apostle if you read through ALL the espistles shows a picture of extreme warning to the rich and much condemnation because evidently MANY could not handle it. I would go on the side of caution with riches rather than try and allow an openess and lack of worry about it in the body of Christ. ---


Ok Brother Greg, maybe it's just me, but i certainly don't see where i've conveyed a "flippant - lack of concern attitude about wealth"? ... So let me reiterate my observation, "there is nothing wrong with money/wealth as long as it's totally understood who it all belongs to, and if He bestows upon you the gift of stewardship why you've been given money/wealth in the first place", with this added clarifying statement, " i'm only speaking to those who have a real maturity, as to what and why wealth is, and from whom it comes from ...

i certainly agree that if a saint is bestowed wealth they must be careful in their continued integrity to our Lord, but if they fully, truly understand as Abraham did, that God is the Source of that wealth, and it's given him for the reason of provision to others, as well as the promoting of God's plan, then if Abraham could handle it, i'm sure they'd be able to also ... In an earlier post i also stated that God does not bestow things on folk whom He knows won't be able to handle it, and that folk who have a love of money/wealth never wait on God, because they concider Him far to slow, and therefore will go after wealth on their own, thereby falling under the scriptural prophecy of being pierced thru with many arrows ... So again, with the qualifier that i'm speaking from, and to a totally mature understanding in Christ, money/wealth is not the root of all evil, but the love of it ... God has in the past, present and i'm sure in the future will always have His mature "stewards" of provision to His cause, and in my case if that's what He's grooming me for then His will be done, and if not then like Paul i'm content in that also, but i have this passage of the OT ever before me because of His leading me to the Puritan's view of money/wealth ...

Deut.8
[13] And when thy herds and thy flocks multiply, and thy silver and thy gold is multiplied, and all that thou hast is multiplied; [14] Then thine heart be lifted up, and thou forget the LORD thy God, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage; [15] Who led thee through that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought, where there was no water; who brought thee forth water out of the rock of flint;
[16] Who fed thee in the wilderness with manna, which thy fathers knew not, that he might humble thee, and that he might prove thee, to do thee good at thy latter end; [17] And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth. [18] But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day. [19] And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish. [20] As the nations which the LORD destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God.

The Church as a whole has forgotten this, individual saints have forgotten this, America has forgotten this ... but God forbid that i, or any other "stewards of His provision", on whatever level of bestowed Talents, should ever forget this ever again! ... Amen


In His love that covers our multitudes of sin ...


Brother R


PS - Thanks for the info on the worth of Talents

 2004/8/11 13:10Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Is there a trouble maker amongst us? if so, it is from the enemy. this should not be so. these points like these are not worth arguing about.


Sister in the forums there is communication back and forth and yes there is just not building one block ontop of the other but a questioning of prior blocks being placed, to either its placement or its needing to be there at all. We are to ask, seek, knock in spiritual fashion, so that we may find spiritual truth, have it opened to our spirits.

I was just here thinking of how I could explain what is on my heart in this regard and I looked and saw my collection of 3000 Religious books and thought of the quality of these volumes that the Lord allowed me to gather, then I considered the 100,000's of other Religious books that are out there and available and though how wonderful it is that the Lord allowed me to sift through so much church history to have a very potent collection of Truth. Are all the other books bad? NO, but if we were to accept the opinions and views of ALL the other books out there then there would be a dilution of Christian truth. I know this seems simple and im not sure why I am writing it.. but even in a scene here on SermonIndex were there are few choice saints who are seeking after truth and not accepting most of what is mainstream, there still needs to be this careful process 'holding onto the good'.

For a discussion to dig down to find the truth of the matter is essential and as I am participating in these discussions I am allowing God to refine my views, beliefs, that I believe mostly have come from God. I cannot express how much I have grown from the fellowship of brothers and sisters here.

Quote:
yes, the Lord will do miraculous things when times are tough- and He will also use His people to do those miraculous things through. i hope He is already doing that.


Amen..


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/8/11 13:14Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

Brother Rahman wrote:

Quote:
In an earlier post i also stated that God does not bestow things on folk whom He knows won't be able to handle it,



In the parable of the sower, Jesus begins by saying, "Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?" Mark 4:13

Here Jesus clearly says that understanding this parable is the key to unlocking the spiritual meanings of all other parables. With that said, Jesus goes on to warn of temptations which cause men and women to stumble. In verse 18, "Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who [b]hear the word,[/b] and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in [b]choke the word[/b], and it becomes unfruitful." Jesus warns all of us that there will be people who have heard the word and that they will stumble, will be unfruitful. I believe Scripture points to the fact that God will test our hearts. He knows our hearts, yet He allows us to be tried in order that we are shown our own heart condition.

King David was tempted by the world and what was his cry? "To You I will cry, O Lord my Rock; do not be silent to me, lest I become like those who go down to the pit." Psalm 28:1. This is our only hope for clarity in our own walks. We must hear His voice. A mature christian will have been tested by the fire. A mature christian will never arrive at a point where he does not need to cry out to our Lord for His voice.

So in summary of your quote, I believe what you stated may be true at points in your or any other believer's walk, but that does not exclude the times of testing that comes from our Lord.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/8/11 15:40Profile
Gideons
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Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 474
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 Re:

This is an interesting discussion. I see things a little bit differently.

Using Galatians 4:21-31 as a background, what kind of spirit was the money created from? Was it a work of the flesh (i.e. Ishmael) versus a work of the spirit (i.e. Isaac)? I was cut to the core when I heard a message using this passage nearly a week ago. It had to be the most convicting message I've ever heard. The entire church went to the altar.

In short, if our finances (or anything else in our life spouse, possessions, careers, etc.) are born of the flesh there's no real value. It's simply our attempt to help God. On the other hand, if it's straight from God's hand (i.e. born of the Spirit), we'll accept it whether we're rich or poor, sick or well.

I'm reassessing my life because I only want what God wants me to have. That's a very brief synposis of this sermon but I literally can't get it out of my mind.

Just my two cents worth...

Ed


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Ed Pugh

 2004/8/11 16:16Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:



Brother Jeff you posted;


--- A mature christian will have been tested by the fire. A mature christian will never arrive at a point where he does not need to cry out to our Lord for His voice.

So in summary of your quote, I believe what you stated may be true at points in your or any other believer's walk, but that does not exclude the times of testing that comes from our Lord. ---


Amen ....


1Cor.10

[12] Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

[13] There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man:

but God is faithful,

who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able;

but will with the temptation also make a way to escape,

that ye may be able to bear it.


Another good scripture to always keep in mind!

 2004/8/11 16:30Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

Brother Rahman quoted:

Quote:
but will with the temptation also make a way to escape,

that ye may be able to bear it.



Grace and faith are wraped up in these few words. The temptation is real, God's grace is real, what path do we choose? Our path creates the evidence for what we hope for.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2004/8/11 16:40Profile





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