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reformer
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Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 "Thou" or "You" ???

noticed something in reading the KJ and ESV side by side. This may sound silly but it struck me that the word "Thou" used seemed to carry a majestic tone. And the word "You" just seemed flippant and passive in its tone?

"Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over." KJV

"You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies; you anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows." ESV

Does that make sense or am I just stretching abit...? :-)

maybe its not a fair assumption for every time these words are used...maybe just this verse sounds a certain way...just a thought.

 2009/2/9 20:41Profile
hulsey
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Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640
Missouri

 Re: "Thou" or "You" ???

There is a practical application to the kjv use of thee, thou, thine...etc.

In modern english 'you' can be singular or plural. In King James English 'you' was always plural, along with ye...etc.

Thee, thou, and thine were always singular. This is helpful in Bible study because the Greek has a different words for the singular 'you' and the plural 'you'. The clue in Bible study is that when the kjv uses a singular pronoun, then you know the Greek is in the singular, and vica versa for the plural.

However, it's good to know that the NT was written in Koine Greek...the common language of the common man. It was ridiculed by critics of its day for the lack of refinement in language. When God chose to pen the inspired words of the NT He didn't use the eloquent words of the finest speakers or poets, just the common business language of the Roman empire that every man could speak and many could read.


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SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2009/2/9 21:03Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:

hulsey wrote:
There is a practical application to the kjv use of thee, thou, thine...etc.

In modern english 'you' can be singular or plural. In King James English 'you' was always plural, along with ye...etc.

Thee, thou, and thine were always singular. This is helpful in Bible study because the Greek has a different words for the singular 'you' and the plural 'you'. The clue in Bible study is that when the kjv uses a singular pronoun, then you know the Greek is in the singular, and vica versa for the plural.

However, it's good to know that the NT was written in Koine Greek...the common language of the common man. It was ridiculed by critics of its day for the lack of refinement in language. When God chose to pen the inspired words of the NT He didn't use the eloquent words of the finest speakers or poets, just the common business language of the Roman empire that every man could speak and many could read.




Thanks for the input...this is why I ask these sort of questions on SI...a lot more knowledgeable folks out there.!! :-) I didn't do to well in English class... :-o

 2009/2/9 21:37Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Here is a good little article by Ron Bailey.

https://www.sermonindex.net/pdf/theethine.pdf


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Josh Parsley

 2009/2/9 21:49Profile
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:

PreachParsly wrote:
Here is a good little article by Ron Bailey.



good article...I wish I stayed awake in English class, than living like the devil! Somewhat embarrassed at times trying to figure out the basics of English grammar.

You know its a battle sometimes to know what the "best" translation is. Knowing that some sound better than other translations and other translations sound better than some. So where to find the balance? I suppose the easiest answer would be just to read them all! Read one year.

 2009/2/9 22:09Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

hulsey wrote:

However, it's good to know that the NT was written in Koine Greek...the common language of the common man. It was ridiculed by critics of its day for the lack of refinement in language. When God chose to pen the inspired words of the NT He didn't use the eloquent words of the finest speakers or poets, just the common business language of the Roman empire that every man could speak and many could read.



Just a funny little point, along these lines. In church on Sunday, the pastor was preaching out of Ephesians, when he found himself struggling with pronouncing a word. The verse was:

Quote:

And do not be drunk with wine, in which is [u]dissipation[/u]; but be filled with the Spirit,
[b]Ephesians 5:18 (NKJV)[/b]



I giggled silently to myself, as I read along in my KJV:

Quote:

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is [u]excess[/u]; but be filled with the Spirit;
[b]Ephesians 5:18 (KJV)[/b]



These modern translation can be really hard to understand sometimes. ;-)


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2009/2/10 4:40Profile









 Re:

Ditto on the answers given. So many times today people who dont know what they are talking about seem to want to mock the wording of the KJV... when in fact there was a reason it was written the way it was. Even the thee's and thou's and ye's. Changing them all to "you" does change the meaning of some verses.

When I say "people who dont know what they are talking about" I am not referring to people who have actually studied this issue of Bible versions and have come down on the side of the modern versions. I am referring to your average ignorant American Christian. Just want to clarify that because there are those on this forum that take a different stance than me on this issue... but I respect them because they have studied this out.

Krispy

 2009/2/10 5:40
reformer
Member



Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


 Re:

Quote:
When I say "people who dont know what they are talking about" I am not referring to people who have actually studied this issue of Bible versions and have come down on the side of the modern versions. I am referring to your average ignorant American Christian. Just want to clarify that because there are those on this forum that take a different stance than me on this issue... but I respect them because they have studied this out.



Don't think your average or ignorant if you haven't studied the translation process of the bible...think most just dont't care and are somewhat timid when it comes to this study...for it is quite in depth. But I do agree if one chooses to argue a point and they know nothing about there argument, then they are being ignorant and lazy.

If you could recommend a article, book, or resource about this subject I would like very much to be educated on this subject. I have been wrestling with buying KJV bible for my study now. I have been reading through my Dads old Scofield KJV. I like that version, because he replaced some words from the 1611 version that are more literal and less archaic. I like that version, but I do not like the notes...to distracting for me. Plus what a challenge to read the KJV...truly not sure if I am up for the task. I suppose I don't have much confidence in myself to read it...never been much of the student in school! ;-)

Mike

 2009/2/10 6:44Profile









 Re:

There is a ton of material out there. I've read both sides, but I have to say I've been most impressed with David Clouds writings. I do [b]not[/b] agree w/ Cloud on every issue he writes about, but he definately did his homework on the KJV debate.

Here's a link to some of the articles he has written, and his books are also available on his website:

http://www.wayoflife.org/database/textsversionsheader.html

Krispy

 2009/2/10 8:09





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