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savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2071


 Re: The Calf-Path

The Calf-Path

by Sam Walter Foss (1858-1911)

One day, through the primeval wood,
A calf walked home, as good calves should;
But made a trail all bent askew,
A crooked trail, as all calves do.

Since then three hundred years have fled,
And, I infer, the calf is dead.
But still he left behind his trail,
And thereby hangs my moral tale.

The trail was taken up next day
By a lone dog that passed that way;
And then a wise bellwether sheep
Pursued the trail o’er vale and steep,
And drew the flock behind him, too,
As good bellwethers always do.

And from that day, o’er hill and glade,
Through those old woods a path was made,
And many men wound in and out,
And dodged and turned and bent about,
And uttered words of righteous wrath
Because ’twas such a crooked path;
But still they followed — do not laugh —
The first migrations of that calf,
And through this winding wood-way stalked
Because he wobbled when he walked.

This forest path became a lane,
That bent, and turned, and turned again.
This crooked lane became a road,
Where many a poor horse with his load
Toiled on beneath the burning sun,
And traveled some three miles in one.
And thus a century and a half
They trod the footsteps of that calf.

The years passed on in swiftness fleet.
The road became a village street,
And this, before men were aware,
A city’s crowded thoroughfare,
And soon the central street was this
Of a renowned metropolis;
And men two centuries and a half
Trod in the footsteps of that calf.

Each day a hundred thousand rout
Followed that zigzag calf about,
And o’er his crooked journey went
The traffic of a continent.
A hundred thousand men were led
By one calf near three centuries dead.
They follow still his crooked way,
And lose one hundred years a day,
For thus such reverence is lent
To well-established precedent.

A moral lesson this might teach
Were I ordained and called to preach;
For men are prone to go it blind
Along the calf-paths of the mind,
And work away from sun to sun
To do what other men have done.
They follow in the beaten track,
And out and in, and forth and back,
And still their devious course pursue,
To keep the path that others do.

They keep the path a sacred groove,
Along which all their lives they move;
But how the wise old wood-gods laugh,
Who saw the first primeval calf!
Ah, many things this tale might teach —
But I am not ordained to preach.


 2009/2/2 17:46Profile
swordfish7
Member



Joined: 2009/1/31
Posts: 6


 Re:

Quoted from jimdied2sin, "Sure, but the word of God does make a good case against the current Evangelical/Roman Catholic 'pastorate' system none the less."

It is possible your dispute with the RC system properly runs much deeper than its form. It calls its pastorate "priests" for very good reason (from its own perspective). But I would not think to dispute with them on that topic, as the means of salvation is a greater priority matter, and one of eternal significance.

 2009/2/2 19:17Profile
DoulosQuinn
Member



Joined: 2006/7/6
Posts: 131


 Re: Church councel in hell

Savannah:
Wow that first poem was it!

Swordfish"

Quote:
The abuses? Yes I have seen them. Pastors? Are they too not a part of the body? Are they not members of the church? Whatever the church is charged to do (i.e. discipline), so too are the pastors charged to do, to model, to lead in by their example, and to teach to the rest of the church so they may do also. Christ taught the church to do Matthew 18 discipline, and so the pastors are obligated to teach it the church by example and by instruction. The presence of abusers in the pastorate does not give us warrant to discontinue either the pastorate or Matthew 18 discipline. It does give us warrant to correct the abusers (with discipline if necessary) and to better educate, train, and select our pastors.



How do you discipline a Diotrephus? How can pastors be part of the body, when they are not in the bible? The parts are what they are! In a real body parts are named- finger, foot. But you don't tape a knife on your finger and then years later when it comes of the body think it was ever a part. As for Priests, if Christ is THE PRIEST can one liken that to taping additional paper heads on a body and have them function properly? Our example is not other men but "to walk as HE walked."

RobertW:
Quote:
As Ron Bailey said in the Q & A session in Greenock; "I'm not a strategist, Im a foot soldier. I simply have to do as I am told."


I agree, but who tell's us should be The LORD through HIS WORD with the witness of the HOLY Spirit, that is who we should obey even when a Diotrephus has pressed us to submit to him.

jimdied2sin:
Quote:
but the overall rotten fruit of it is bears testimony to the warnings in the word of God.



Amen there should be a reformation like that of the Moravian's who overcame by love

 2009/2/2 22:19Profile
swordfish7
Member



Joined: 2009/1/31
Posts: 6


 Re: Pastors not biblical?

I suspect I have wandered into an old discussion here. When DoulosQuinn wrote, "How can pastors be part of the body, when they are not in the bible?" it is my suspicion that he already knows that the Greek word "poimen" from Ephesians 4:11 is the English translation "shepherd" or "pastor."

To argue that the word "pastor" is not in the Bible is akin to arguing that Christ is not in the Bible because the Greek actually calls Him Christos.

But like I said, I suspect you have all been through this before. I would address the question of how to discipline a Diotrephes, but until we agree that pastors / shepherds are indeed biblical, where would be the value in doing so?

 2009/2/3 10:54Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

brother DoulousQuinn,

I have read the many posts and I hope that what I say comes through with humility and love.

A couple of years ago the Lord began to open up the Word concerning this very subject and through His leading I seen that the modern CEO/Head single pastor church system is not His intent and not how He designed His body to meet together. But the question always becomes... What are you going to do about it? For me, I wanted to shout it out to everyone I seen and engage everyone of my friends into why the church system is corrupt and wrong. There was underlying bitterness and rebellion that I didn't even know was there, but nevertheless was present in my life.

But praise the Lord in His manifest wisdom, He didn't parade me around discussing this issue in churches, instead He saw fit to hide me and refine me. It has been over 2 years and I have been out of the "church" for over a year and I am just now starting to truly see His eternal purpose to sum up all things in Christ. Brother, for me now, it is not about who's meeting right? or do they have a head pastor?, but it's about seeing the Body of Christ through the eyes of the Head. It's about seeing the bride of Christ become the wife, Seeing the Body as a temple that God dwells in, and seeing everyone in the Body participate and partake of one another.

In such things, I believe, the Lord is concerned about. And what I have seen is that there are many who are hungry and thirsty to see Him move in His Body so that He might truly be the Head in practice and not just doctrine.

I hope that my testimony may help you to answer some questions you may have.

phil

 2009/2/3 14:47Profile
DoulosQuinn
Member



Joined: 2006/7/6
Posts: 131


 sword fish

OK I had engineering homework like you would not believe...I finally had a minute to read and see that bomb...yes I know the word poimen, and Christos but though Christ is in the Bible, the role that "pastor" has come to mean is totally contrary to poimen...the WORD reveals as such

1Pe 5:1 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed:

1Pe 5:2 shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight,not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly;

1Pe 5:3 not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock.

1Pe 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.

1Pe 5:5 Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”

1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you,

1Pe 5:7 casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

1Pe 5:9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.

OK established ...so Barna (Mr. promote seeker friendly great falling away) even wrote in the book "Pagan Christianity" how most of the modern church resembles what it was influenced by in the world, so has lost it first estate.

I relate it just like the alter is to be made with stones undefiled by the tools of man, the alter of living stones fit together into one body. with "nails given by ONE Shepherd" Eccles.

 2009/2/9 3:33Profile
DoulosQuinn
Member



Joined: 2006/7/6
Posts: 131


 Re: Love HIM

Yes I know what your saying. Praise GOD, maybe it is a martyr opportunity that is needed.

Disciplining a Diotrephus...

Does any one remember Joash? 2 Chronicals 24:17-22

How being a descendant of Jezebel yet found favor from GOD, by the high priest who spared him from his own grandma?

good things happened...until the man of GOD under pinning reverence was taken by The LORD (intentional?)

Then in the end how it says he was flattered into being manipulated to the point he killed that same high priest's son for speaking the truth with courage...the prophet was despised because of the respect of persons, or lack there of and Diotrephus' types establish a hierarchy where the can maintain a firm reign by exploiting GODs reign as "through him" to the rest.

The answer is definable in one word I dare not drop lightly, Icabod.(I think Ichabod is the only treatment...like chemotherapy)
GOD does not despise the broken and contrite.

In essence the church seems to me to be despised...like Esau's birthright, or Israel when HE sold them for no gain.

Now women and children rule, and he has established false shepherds to isolate some purity and drive it into an ark of sorts, or a cave in Engedi to bring destruction that the Diotrephus' unbelief eggs GOD into, so GOD can be glorified as HE was with Pharaoh...if HE never changes applies here I think that is what comes this way.

 2009/2/9 3:37Profile





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