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MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

waltern wrote:
Joel refuses to tell the truth that Jesus Christ is the only way for men to be saved in his interviews with Larry King and others on National Television. .
Sincerely,
Walter
:-)
Quote:



Yep and Walter refuses to forgive him, I wonder which is worse? because true forgiveness never brings it up again. Well again unless the Word of God lies. Walter, I if I were you, I would personally work on my learning how to forgive others, and let Joel Osteen work on his issues, or like the word says, be more concerned about the log in your eye before you concern yourself about the speck in your Brothers.Have yourself a wonderful day "unless" you have other plans.
God Bless
Peace :-)
Mr. Bill


_________________
Bill

 2009/1/26 1:06Profile









 dont forget the mustard seed!!

I love that parable, the mustard seed parable told about the Kingdom of God.

the mustard seed is a tiny seed, that makes a weed that grows big, and farmers try and try and try to get rid of it, and they can't. It just keeps spreading.

So we have guys like Joel Osteen and Todd Bentley, and this fellow that I saw the other day, John Crowder and that foolish bunch, with their childish "drunken" theo-tom foolery.

meanwhile the mustard seed keeps spreading! Think of all the anonymous Chinese house church pastors, laboring away, pressed, perplexed, prosecuted, little resource, but what GIANTS these men are!!! GOD ALMIGHTY knows their names.

It's Paul Phillipian exhortation, whatever is pure, what is noble.......think of such things.

thats why three days after I saw the rank blasphemy of Crowder, I'll never look at him again. Give me the pure I say!!!

 2009/1/26 1:43









 Re: dont forget the mustard seed!!



To Natan4Jesus:

Since when are Christian’s required to forgive false prophets? I have already quoted the Bible that instructs CHRISTIANS on how to deal with FALSE PROPHETS and other Christians who are in grave Doctrinal error and therefore, on their way to hell. I am surely not the one who would have to forgive them for anything. They have not hurt or attacked me in any way. They have attacked the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as well as the His Word, the DOCTRINE found in the Bible.


[b]Natan, how did the Apostles in the early Church respond to false Gospel being preached?

I posted this previously. You obviously missed it, so I will do so here. If you respond to this, PLEASE RESPOND WITH SCRIPTURE THAT RELATES TO FALSE DOCTRINE AND FALSE TEACHERS, AND WHAT WE (CHRISTIANS) ARE INSTRUCTED TO DO WITH THEM.[/b]


1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.


Why should 'God Fearing' Christians NAME NAMES WHEN DEALING WITH THOSE IN PUBLIC MINISTRY?

BECAUSE OF PRECEDENCE.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

LOOK HOW PAUL JUDGED IN 1 CORINTHIANS 5:1-13

1Co 5:1-13 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you-something that even pagans don't do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother. You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship. Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church. I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus. Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns. Your boasting about this is terrible. Don't you realize that this sin is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old "yeast" by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us. So let us celebrate the festival, not with the old bread of wickedness and evil, but with the new bread of sincerity and truth. When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. But I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don't even eat with such people. It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you."

A PERSON WHO IS ABLE TO DISCERN BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL, HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE MAJOR MARKS OF SPIRITUAL MATURITY. LOOK AT HEBREWS 5:14

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

THE VERY WORD "DISCERN" MEANS TO JUDGE.

SO, IS IT RIGHT FOR US TO EXPOSE FALSE TEACHERS?

If we sit idly by we are in essence encouraging false doctrine to be spread. Wolves in sheep's clothing are thus enabled to ravage the flock, thereby destroying many.

Remember John the Baptist? He called the Pharisees and Sadducees (the religious leaders of his day) "a generation of Vipers". Today would we dare tell him to "your too harsh, be kind to our brethren and don't judge"??

[b]We must always remember that the scripture admonishes us if we do not expose error in the flock. What are we to do when we know of 'false' teachers?[/b]

WE ARE TO TRY THEM.

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they be of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world" - I John 4: 1

ALL DOCTRINE AND TEACHERS ARE TO BE TRIED ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Every sermon, every message, pastor, preacher, so called prophet or any methodology it to be judged through the looking glass of God's Word. On that note, I hope that right now your bibles are open, and you're verifying this talk with scripture.

Have a look at what Christ says to the Church of Ephesus in Revelation 2:2. Christ commends them on what?

"I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"

WE ARE TO THEREFORE DO THE SAME.

Never is it to be acceptable to us to 'tolerate' false teachers within our midst.

WE ARE TO MARK THEM AND AVOID THEM.

Rom 16:17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Those whose conduct and teaching contradicts the Word of God are to be marked and to be avoided. How can we mark them? We need a standard in which to compare them to. In other words we require discernment and judgment in light of God's Word. These are not my words. I am merely quoting scripture. We cannot mark and avoid, unless their words and deeds are judged according to the Word of God.

WE ARE TO REBUKE THEM!

Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Look up for yourself the passages of Titus 1:10-16--- To whom was Paul referring when he wrote this to Titus?

“For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.”

For money's sake - unruly, vain talkers and deceivers were fooling whole houses, and leading them astray. Teaching them things that they should not teach. Does that sound familiar to you?


[b]Joel Osteen and other preachers and evangelists are subverting whole houses with their false doctrine today. Are we to sit silently by, while they do this, without rebuking and admonishing people to avoid their teaching? NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT![/b] Sound doctrine tells us the way to salvation, and is supposed to be too precious to us.

Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

[b]WE ARE TO HAVE NO FELLOWSHIP WITH THEM.[/b]

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

This one is very important and one of the most often overlooked commands on this subject.

Reprove means to show disapproval, condemn, find fault, rebuke, and to refute. How can we obey Ephesians 5:11 unless we try them by the Word of God?

You may be wondering, "Well that verse says 'works of darkness'; certainly a fellow Christian who is only slightly off doctrine is not involved in works of darkness?"

John said this:

2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God...

1John 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

False religion and false doctrines are brambles that grow across the path of truth. They are designed to ensnare and bind people to the author of this confusion - the prince of darkness. If Satan can twist the true gospel to something of his own making, then he has pulled the spirital wool over the eyes of those who follow. He then in-turn renders that person inadequate for duty as a disciple of Jesus Christ. I think we can all agree that the source of all false doctrine is the prince of darkness.

[b]WE ARE TO WITHDRAW FROM THEM.[/b]

If we have rebuked them. If we have shown them the error of their ways through scripture, and they still refuse to turn away from their sinful practice, we are to withdraw from them.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.


[b]ARE TO TURN AWAY FROM THEM.[/b]

2 Timothy 3:5-7 "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Concerning the last days, Paul says that some will have "a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. from such turn away." How can we turn away from them if we do not identify them?

[b]ARE NOT TO RECEIVE THEM INTO OUR HOUSE.[/b]
2 John 19-11
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed:
For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds.

[b]This should be an easy one right? But what about Radio, TV, music, etc? Once we have marked someone as a false teacher we are to NOT receive them into our house.[/b]

[b]WE ARE TO LOOK OUT FOR THOSE WHO PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL.[/b]

(2 Cor. 11:4) How can we identify them unless we judge their Jesus, their spirit, and their gospel by the Word of God? Paul goes on to call such preachers, false apostles who transform themselves into apostles of Christ. He also hints at who their master is and refers to Satan himself as an 'Angel of Light'.

[b]PAUL REITERATES SOME OF THIS IN GALATIANS:[/b]

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Those who teach salvation by baptism, or by works, are teaching a perverted gospel. The hyper charismatic, the Roman Catholic Church, many once evangelical and Christian fundamentalists are preaching a perverted gospel. Albeit, perhaps unknowingly, but they are doing it just the same.

[b][color=990000]Yet according to you Natan, and others like you on this thread, we are supposed to cooperate with these PERVERTERS OF THE GOSPEL and cast aside our differences for the sake of the Gospel--A FALSE GOSPEL. If we (you and I) fail to expose these falsities and errors, we have BETRAYED the very Gospel we believe we're furthering! What about the thousands upon thousands of our brothers and sisters who are sitting in these apostate Churches, and on their way to hell because they are being taught lies? Are we to ignore them, so that we can "all get along"?[/color][/b]

Sincerely,

Walter
:-)

Quote:

Natan4Jesus wrote:
I love that parable, the mustard seed parable told about the Kingdom of God.

the mustard seed is a tiny seed, that makes a weed that grows big, and farmers try and try and try to get rid of it, and they can't. It just keeps spreading.

So we have guys like Joel Osteen and Todd Bentley, and this fellow that I saw the other day, John Crowder and that foolish bunch, with their childish "drunken" theo-tom foolery.

meanwhile the mustard seed keeps spreading! Think of all the anonymous Chinese house church pastors, laboring away, pressed, perplexed, prosecuted, little resource, but what GIANTS these men are!!! GOD ALMIGHTY knows their names.

It's Paul Phillipian exhortation, whatever is pure, what is noble.......think of such things.

thats why three days after I saw the rank blasphemy of Crowder, I'll never look at him again. Give me the pure I say!!!

 2009/1/26 1:52
MJones
Member



Joined: 2008/10/31
Posts: 320
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:

waltern wrote:


To MJones:

Since you have listened to Joel for quite a while, I would like to know how many times you have personally heard Joel Osteen preach about REPENTENCE? How many times has Joel Osteen preached about SIN? How may times has he even mentioned the word SIN?---NEVER, he refuses to even use the word sin (according to his interview with Larry King). How many times has he preached that Jesus Christ DIED FOR OUR SINS AND THAT HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, AND THAT NO MAN COMES UNTO THE FATHER BUT BY CHRIST JESUS (John 14:6)? How many times has he preached on the power and efficacy of THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST?




Waltern,

I,m glad you asked these questions. With all due respect, I don't believe my reply will do much to change your opinion, but for the benefit of some others, I will reply.

For starters, this is the exact quote of how Osteen ends his broadcast;

'We never like to close our broadcast without giving you the opportunity to make Jesus the Lord of your life.
Would you pray this prayer with me; Lord Jesus, I repent of my sin. Come into my heart. I will make you the Lord of my life.
Friends if you prayed that simple prayer, we believe you got born again. Get into a Bible based church and keep God first place in your life.

In addition to that, just last night I heard him refer to the scripture in Hebrews regarding the sin that so easily entangles. He specifically used the word 'sin' in the context of encouraging the listeners to do more to avoid it.

In addition, I have heard him repeatedly speak on healing. He beilieves that God has the abiltiy to heal. His mother is often used when he mentions it, for evidently she is a recipient of God's healing touch.

I could go on and on. What bothers me in this, is we have people who write volumes slamming the guy because they heeard him in an interview one time. We need to be better about really knowing something before we speak out for it or against it. Then we have those who join the bandwagon because they here people, who have only heard an interview, do all this bashing.

I think it would be good, before you do any more bashing, to take the time to listen to 5 of his broadcast sermons. If you still have problems, then at least you will have something specific and current to have a problem with.

All due respect.


_________________
Mike Jones

 2009/1/26 7:02Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Since when are Christian’s required to forgive false prophets?



The only thing scripture has commanded the Christian to do concerning false teachers is to "mark and avoid".

Krispy

 2009/1/26 7:56
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

In John 5:40 Jesus DIDN'T say "ye cannot come"; no, rather He said... ye WILL NOT come. Anyone who has a desire to come to Jesus Christ for forgiveness may be saved. Yes, it is true, God will forgive anybody. I realize that such a statement will harelip many of the self-righteous, and Calvinists who don't believe that Christ died for the ungodly; however, Romans 5:6 clearly silences them... "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Christ never died for anyone other than the UNGODLY! I don't understand how anyone, such as Calvinists, can twist the Scriptures to claim that Jesus only died for the righteous. We read in 2nd Peter 2:1, "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." Did you see that? Jesus bought those false prophets, even though they were bound for Hell in their sins. Oh! Listen my friend, I don't care what sins you may have committed, or how far from God you may have run, you may still come to Jesus for forgiveness and salvation. This is Biblical. Isaiah 1:18 plainly states... "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." The Hebrew word for "crimson" is interesting. It refers to a worm used to make clothing dye. Thus, God is saying that although your life may seem permanently stained with sin, He can cleanse you as white as wool. This is the power of Jesus' precious blood that cleanses our sins away, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" (1st John 1:7).

God "will" forgive anybody, because Jesus died for everybody! 1st John 2:2 states, "And he [Jesus] is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." How much clearer could the Bible be on this matter? Whatever depths of sin you may have gone to, God is willing to forgive you, if you'll come by way of the blood of Jesus.I will say this again Jesus will forgive anyone and so will I, why? because I personally want to be like Jesus.


_________________
Bill

 2009/1/26 9:27Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

MJones wrote:
What bothers me in this, is we have people who write volumes slamming the guy because they heard him in an interview one time. We need to be better about really knowing something before we speak out for it or against it. Then we have those who join the bandwagon because they here people, who have only heard an interview, do all this bashing.



This has been my message here forever,but "some" so called Christians" are like the world, a person could walk a straight and narrow path their entire lives, but let them make "ONE" mistake and the world will pick up on this and harbor it until death and forget any good that person may have done, just remember them for the bad, it's sad! "some" Christians need to spend more time in front of the mirror.


_________________
Bill

 2009/1/26 9:40Profile









 Re: MrBillPro & MJones



[b]This is addressed to MrBillPro and MJones (One and the same person?):[/b]

This response has nothing to do with “Calvanism” or any other “ism” and everything to do with God's Spirit Breathed Word.

God’s Word is clear in how the body of Christ is to deal with the likes of Joel Osteen, Robert Schuller, and other false Prophets and Teachers. I have quoted from the Anvil, The Bible of how we are to deal with them. [b]Each of us has a choice in how we respond to His Word, in how we respond to the commands He has given us. Are we obedient?

At the Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ, the Bema Seat, all those that make it to this judgment of believers [/b]will see all the things that they have done in their life pass before their eyes, as they are judged by Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 3:9.23 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 10. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13. Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17. If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21. Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; 22. Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; 23. And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.


Sincerely,

Walter

:-)

Quote:

MrBillPro wrote:
Quote:

MJones wrote:
What bothers me in this, is we have people who write volumes slamming the guy because they heard him in an interview one time. We need to be better about really knowing something before we speak out for it or against it. Then we have those who join the bandwagon because they here people, who have only heard an interview, do all this bashing.



This has been my message here forever,but "some" so called Christians" are like the world, a person could walk a straight and narrow path their entire lives, but let them make "ONE" mistake and the world will pick up on this and harbor it until death and forget any good that person may have done, just remember them for the bad, it's sad! "some" Christians need to spend more time in front of the mirror.

 2009/1/26 11:59
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

Ok Walter you have addressed the problem with many hand picked scripture to help your cause, so what is the solution? just pray Pastor Joel goes to hell?
Just what do "good" Christian folks do? do they just continue to "not to forgive" and Pray for him.

Matthew 18:15-17 say’s:
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Walter have you done this yet?


_________________
Bill

 2009/1/26 12:15Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

By the way just for the record here, I am not condoning any sin, or false teachers, I am just forgiving them, why? because I want to be forgiven, I think that is the way it goes, or maybe someone will show me some scripture that's to the contrary, Mr. Bill forgives very easily, you know why? because he has a huge mirror. :-)


_________________
Bill

 2009/1/26 12:23Profile





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