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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : the book of enoch

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lwpray
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Joined: 2003/6/22
Posts: 3318
Sweden

 The writers of this book...



Let it be clearly stated by this that the ”Enoch” who was the author of the apocryphical “Book of Enoch” is not the same as the man who walked with God – Genesis.

The writers of this book, which consists of several smaller items put together into one unit, were all trying to help God help the hope of Israel during precarious times; but real hope will never come out of and be established on fantasy. Fantasy never helps reality.

Our role is to open for hope to be preached – the Cross, our fundamental deliverance.
Our role is to testify to the substance and reality at the core of the blessed hope – Christ in us, the hope of glory.

Choosing examples and role models which have no place in the Good Book jeopardizes living and testimony. Better to admire a man who God testifies to than others who never reached heavenly standards.

The following cut gives a glimpse of the situation in which these texts were written and of the sources of the writings. Taken from the introduction to The Book of Enoch, translated by R.H Charles.

“As the Book of Enoch is, in some respects, the most notable extant apocalyptic work outside the canonical Scriptures, it will not be inappropriate to offer a few remarks here on the Apocalyptic Literature generally. In writing about the books which belong to this literature, Prof. Burkitt says very pointedly that “they are the most characteristic survival of what I will venture to call, with all its narrowness and its incoherence, the heroic age of Jewish history, the age when the nation attempted to realize in action the part of the peculiar people of God. It ended in catastrophe.”

“Hope is, indeed, the main underlying motive-power which prompted the writers of the Apocalypses. And this hope is the more intensive and ardent in that it shines forth from a background which is dark with despair for the Apocalyptists despaired of the world in which they lived, a world in which the godly were of no account, while the wicked seemed too often triumphant and prosperous. With evil everywhere around, the Apocalyptists saw no hope for the world as it was; for such a world there was no remedy, only destruction; if the good were ever to triumph it must be in a new world.

Despairing, therefore, of the world. around them, the Apocalyptists centred their hope upon a world to come, where the righteous would come to their own and evil would find no place. It is this thought which underlies the opening words of the Book of Enoch: “The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when the wicked and godless are to be removed.”

“As the various parts of the book clearly belong to different dates, diversity of authorship is what one is naturally led to expect; and of this there can, indeed, be no shadow of doubt. The author of the earliest portions was a Jew who lived, as Burkitt has shown, in northern Palestine, in the land of Dan, south-west of the Hermon range, near the head-waters of the Jordan. This is important, as it tends to show that the book, or books, is really Palestinian, and one which, therefore, circulated among Jews in Palestine. ‘If, moreover, the author came from the north, that helps to explain the influence the book had upon the Religion that was cradled in Galilee.’ Of the authors of the other three books of which “ Enoch” is made up (viz. “The Dream-Visions,” “The Book of the Heavenly Luminaries,” and “ The Similitudes “) we know nothing save what can be gathered from their writings as to their religious standpoint.”

L.W.


_________________
Lars Widerberg

 2004/7/27 13:06Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: The writers of this book...



Brother Lars you posted:


---“Hope is, indeed, the main underlying motive-power which prompted the writers of the Apocalypses. And this hope is the more intensive and ardent in that it shines forth from a background which is dark with despair for the Apocalyptists despaired of the world in which they lived, a world in which the godly were of no account, while the wicked seemed too often triumphant and prosperous. With evil everywhere around, the Apocalyptists saw no hope for the world as it was; for such a world there was no remedy, only destruction; if the good were ever to triumph it must be in a new world.

Despairing, therefore, of the world. around them, the Apocalyptists centred their hope upon a world to come, where the righteous would come to their own and evil would find no place. It is this thought which underlies the opening words of the Book of Enoch: “The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be living in the day of tribulation, when the wicked and godless are to be removed.”---


Wow brother Lars,

That's good stuff ... Sounds like me ... Sounds like this present age ... Sounds like the sentiments of the blood of the martyrs crying out from under the altar in the Revelation ... Rev.6: [9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Both you and your knowledge are such a blessing and a help to me ... You make me think, sadly that's something that a lot of saints don't like to do, but even our Lord said let us sit down and reason together ...

i totally agree with your post of;


--- Our role is to open for hope to be preached – the Cross, our fundamental deliverance. Our role is to testify to the substance and reality at the core of the blessed hope – Christ in us, the hope of glory. ---


Amen ... Let me state for the record ... My faith and hope is built on nothing less than Jesus Christ and Moody press! ... '0) ... That's a Baptist saying ...


Now this part of your post i don't quite understand, so will you explain it to me?


---Choosing examples and role models which have no place in the Good Book jeopardizes living and testimony. Better to admire a man who God testifies to than others who never reached heavenly standards.---


Who are you speaking of at the latter ... Also for the record, the Enoch that i admire, is the one spoken of in Genesis, son of Jared, 7th from Adam, who walked and talked with God, and pleased Him so much that He translated him to heaven (the same one that is spoken of in both The Book of Enoch and The Secrets of the Book of Enoch) ... And as to picking role models in scripture, i know that Christ is my first role model, but i have many others, Jacob being after Enoch ... Even Paul said it was ok to follow him, with these two most important understandings ... 1Cor.11: [1] Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. [2] Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. [3] But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ ... And Paul is definitely one of my role models ...


But i digress ... Thanks to you i now have a better name in which to define myself ... an Apocalyptists - i like that! ... This certainly sounds a lot better than what many of the saints i know call me - "The prophet of Doom" ... i can't wait to tell them, "No, im a Apocalyptists" ... For tho on the spiritual side i do lift up my head and rejoice at the speed in which this world is going to hell in a hand basket, because i know our dileverance draweth nigh, my humanity certainly does despair of this world in which I live, a world in which the godly seem of no account, while the wicked seem too often triumphant and prosperous, with evil everywhere around ... i certainly see no hope for this old heaven and earth, and do believe that the only remedy, if good is to ever triumph, must be in a new heaven, and new earth (if God feels that He needs to start fresh, then i most certainly agree, and like John plead come quickly Lord Jesus), and yes my hope is centered on that new world to come, that far country, where righteousness abounds and there's no longer evil - period! ... i have not one iota of hope for, or in this world, and carry the despair of Jeremiah in the witnessing of its long, launguishing, suffering of so many of it's poor inhabitants ... But thanks again in that you have made me mindful that no matter how bad things seem, every moment on this side of glory must be used to proclaim His saving Gospel of grace ...


Your post has made me pull down my copy of the Apocrypha/Epigrapha (which i have right here in front of me) and in the voluminous forward to The Book of Enoch it states that "The oldest portions of the Book of Enoch are pre-Maccabean (prior to the Apocalyptists period you stated), and that The Book of Enoch "Has had more influence on the New Testament than has any other apocraphal, or epigraphic work" ... Then it goes on to give quotes out of Enoch, cross referenced to the same quotes in canonical scripture ... So, before i pose any more questions to you in regard this topic i think it only prudent to ask, "Do you have a copy of "The Apochypha and Pseudoepigrapha", by Charles, at your ready, and have you read the books in which we're posting on"?

 2004/7/28 10:29Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:



For anyone interested you can go to Chapter 5 ... I, Enoch ... of my novel ... The Called ... and find out first hand what is written in The Book of Enoch, and judge for yourself whether this
epigraphic book goes against, diminishes or rather amplifies the the eternal judgement and damnation thread of the hell bound in canon scripture,

i of course think it does the latter, in that it gives a fascinating and thorough account of ...


Gen.6
[1] And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, [2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. [3] And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. [4] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. [5] And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

And also ...

Jude.1
[6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

[14] And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, [15] To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.


The Book of Enoch shows forth that it was because of these wicked angels descending to earth and taking on flesh that relatively still innocent mankind would have never sank to the depths of depravity as quickly as they did under supernatural wicked influence, and were in fact the catalyst of God causing the Flood ...

The Book of Enoch plainly states that these fallen angels, the evil Watchers, were in fact responsible for gross fornications, adulteries, homosexuality, bestiality, phalic worship, idolatry, child sacrifice, cannibilism, and every other imaginable abomination before the Lord ... It also destroys modern day anthropology and archeology with it's millions of years between man sliding out of the primordial ooze, to the stone, bronze and iron age ... The Book of Enoch plainly states that it was the fallen angels who taught men how to get metals out of the ground, and how to work them into breastplates, swords, spears, and all weapons of warfare ... And for those supposed learned men of today who can't figure out how ancient man could possibly know astronomy without the use of telescopes, the Book tells us that these wicked angels taught them all of the movements of the celestial bodies ... Fascinating!

And then there is Enochs dream visions of heaven and hell, specifically hell, and his definition between fallen angels and actual demons ... i think it must be understood that Noah, his sons, and their wives witnessed these angels, their gigantic offspring, and the vileness of their world prior to the flood, and you can best believe that history was passed down first verbally, then eventually written down ... It is not by accident, at the confusing of the languages at the Tower of Babel, and subsequent spreading of mankind thruout the earth, that every culture has in common tales of a first human pair, the serpent, the flood, good and evil spirits, demons, and the myths of giants, witches, sorcerers and wizards ... Alchemy (drugs) are a direct result of pre flood fallen angels ... And i think that if Christian women were aware that Enoch reports that it was these same fallen angels that taught mankind to "paint their eyelids" they might ease up on the make-up ... Think about it, why would a bunch of sex crazed angels from heaven teach mankind to paint their eyelids ... The only answer i can think of is to accentuate the eyes, and i don't think that accentuation was for the good ... Do you?

This book of Enoch is quoted from in Jude, and in many other instances listed in it's commentary in the Epigrapha ... i hope that you'll give chapter 5 a read and see what you think ...

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2289&forum=41

 2004/8/18 10:14Profile





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