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Joined: 2008/12/18
Posts: 12

 In defence of Whispering Word

My brothers and sisters,

First of all I am new to this whole set up and may I say it strikes me as a great tool for sharing what God is doing in the world and also for being able to talk and share with Christians around the globe. But this evening my heart is heavy.

We need reality in our churches today, we need honesty, we need humbleness, we need transparency and we need - most of all - the Lord Jesus Christ by his Holy Spirit to guide and lead us. In the West, if I am honest, I see little of that. I see unreality, I see dishonesty, I see pride, I see closed doors and I see little of God. We have become fat and corrupt and without real revival then nothing is going to change that - however here is the question - If we hold revivalist meetings - whether in Greenock or in Lakeland or wherever and if it becomes an emotional-hyper-triumphalist-fest then why should we expect to se revival? Why would the Holy Spirit even bother turning up if we can seem to get everyone going without Him?

As Christians we are operating out of our own souls far too often, we feel down and so we assume God isn't talking to us, we feel high and suddenly everything is great and blessed - I don't want to live like that - I want to live a live that is REAL, based on the Holy Spirit operating in me and through me and part of that is to be able to answer tough questions so that if something is on here that I disagree with and someone disagrees with me then that's okay - we are not arguing about fundamental doctrine here but questioning and discussing what God is doing around the world and to be honest quoting Bible verses at one another as though we were playing a game of Top Trumps isn't going to change much - it isn't going to stop people going to Hell and t isn't going to make me want to read my Bible for any other reason than look for a "better" quote!.

I thought there was an honesty in Whispering Word's questions that we need to consider before we leap upon it in order to do the voice down - if there was no revival in Greenock (and although I wasn't there I would be expecting to hear noises of revival amongst the church in the UK by now if there had been true revival... after all we are getting desperate for some good news), then should we not consider what was actually going on? Yes it is great that God clearly touched people, it is great that hearts were changed but was that "in spite" of the event or something else? As Christians we ought to be able to take a long hard look at ourselves and gird up our lions - David was a magnificent example as a man who was able to do that and it pours out of the Psalms. Guess what God honored that... we should be able to do the same.

Your thoughts are welcome.

Richard Lonsdale

 2008/12/18 17:57Profile

Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3168

 Re: In defence of Whispering Word

Hello Lonny, you sound just like the other guy, but only with a different skin. Please forgive me if I'm wrong.

 2008/12/18 19:01Profile


Hi Heartsong , I was thinking that too.......Frank

 2008/12/18 20:12

 Re: Me 3.

Me 3. I agree Heartsong and Scottish Warrior.[Appolus[ Tom

 2008/12/18 21:25


I read those 7 pages and after reading what Frank wrote of what happened there, 'just' with that one woman getting saved, I thought of "the woman at the well."

Jesus did a "one on one" with her and she went back and told the others.

How many one on ones are in The Word of God ?

I thought also of Stephen who was stoned and Philip and the Ethiopian Eunuch [Acts 8] and how the Eunuch got saved and took off for home "Rejoicing". You know he passed it on in Ethiopia and that the seed that Philip passed to him is still in Ethipia today.
Read Acts 8 and see what GOD did with Philip "just" for that one eunuch. The first record of being transported as well. :-)
Remember also that both Stephen and Philip were "only" called to help the widows and serve tables. Acts 6:1,2.
Read Stephen's message that got him killed.
Read Peter's sermon that saved 3000 in one day.

GOD saved a woman in Greenoak and if that was ALL I knew that happened there - I couldn't raise ONE WORD AGAINST IT - because Jesus tells of leaving the 99 for the 1.

HE gave these men a choice of what to do with their time and money during an economic crisis and they chose to fly to Scotland and share for free.

Where on earth does anyone have the right to say that these men were doing anything "wrong".

Revival came with Jesus talking to just that one woman at the well.

Do we know what happened in Ethiopia when the eunuch got home ?

If each of us just does what we listen for Him to tell "us personally" to DO - we'd have no time to play the devil's advocate.

One woman got saved and I'm so happy and the angels are rejoicing and if that is all I know of what happened there --- I'm tickled pink.

Here - read this -

[url=]The Mystery of the Wisdom of God - Katz[/url]

it's our 2000 year old "personal" marching orders and we should be about that "eternal purpose" [b]personally[/b].

"Work while it is yet day .... "

... you know the rest and it's on our door step.

There isn't much more time left for this type critiquing.

[b]"Occupy"[/b] Jesus said - Amen!

 2008/12/18 21:43

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


Hi Lonny,

Your thoughts are welcome.

I don't think it is wrong to question. I think we need to do that. We need to be good Bereans and we need to be discerning.

I also think that 'whispering' made some observations that I heard from others and actually thought myself privately.

However, what I don't agree with is the cynical nature of the post and replies. I can take a tough question and I can take criticism. What I resent is a flip attitude towards what was good and an excessive emphasis on what was wrong.

When Jesus corrected the churches He always started with what was right and allowed those 'praises' to stand on their own feet. I know thy works, etc. etc. and then followed that with a 'nevertheless'...

Jesus was just as serious about telling the people what was [i]right[/i] than He was about pointing out what was [i]wrong[/i]. I believe this is how the Spirit of Christ manifests Himself.

I can dialogue with any amount of criticism so long as I esteem the questions are in the Spirit of Christ. I am not interested in complaining for any reason.

Whispering said some things were 'weird' or 'strange' or something. He focused mostly on that, from what I recall. What is really 'weird' to me is that while I was in Greenock I felt a strange liberty to not need to 'put on' anything so as to impress my fellow brothers and sisters. I was as stripped down as I get.

I think God wanted to bring deliverance to me and possibly others like me that always feel the need to come off as 'holy' or 'sober minded' or somehow 'spiritual'. understand that I am not saying I was a 'hypocrite' I am saying that at times we can try to come off more highly than we ought. There are many reasons for this, but it is as if God was saying it is OK for me to just be myself and allow His grace to mold me.

I guess I came to Greenock tired of playing the holiness game if I can say that respectfully. I was ready to be utterly real with God and everyone else. I was tired of looking and feeling like I drank a gallon of lemon juice all the time. I needed the joy of the Lord in my life.

I needed to know it was OK to smile, laugh and I didn't need to come off as if God were angry all the time. I needed to see how God's goodness leads men to repentance just like His severity and that the one is not the more Spiritual than the other- it is just about what His grace is calling for at the moment and to that person. I needed to 'feel' God's love and acceptance. That sounds corny I know, but you have no idea the kind of theological bondage I came from.

Robert Wurtz II

 2008/12/18 21:48Profile

 Re: What type of critic...holy or common?

"There isn't much time left for this kind of "critiqueing"...... Do you mean the criticizing of the "Whisperer?".....or Greenock? We must stand for the truth against infiltrators whose desire is for the innocent. As I remember, this thread was locked.

 2008/12/18 21:58

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


Hi everyone,

I read through the thread that was locked and I agree with Brothertom and others, [b]something is definitely not right there[/b].


[i]Edited to correct spelling[/i]

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/12/18 22:13Profile

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


There isn't much more time left for this type critiquing.

I think I would say that it is OK to ask questions so long as our spirit is right. I am not threatened by questions. I am not threatened by criticism so long as it is constructive.

One of the greatest problems today that I see in various circles I'm a part of is an unwillingness to allow God to make changes. I use Photoshop a lot and some will know that you can actually 'lock' a layer so that it is not changeable (alterable). Some people have their whole heart and mind locked down so that God is unable to make changes as He would like.

God desires to bring us into New Covenant Christianity, but we spend so much time defending what we are doing that we can't stop to ask if it is even biblical. Not 'proof text' biblical; but is it God's original design and purpose? Have we really asked God to show us our need to change and then unlocked the 'layers' to give Him real access? He needs to do some editing. Will we have the courage to trust Him to do it?

Robert Wurtz II

 2008/12/18 22:14Profile


In reply to my dear brother ROBERTW. I am so glad for your honesty. One of the signs of meeting with God is transparancy. Oh that men would be honest before God and men. I have met so many in "Pentecostal," circles, good folk

(I myself am a classic Pentecostal, I used to call myself a conservative Pentecostal until I met a Polish brother I think, at the conference in Greenock who used the phrase "classic," I liked it :)

who were raised by parents of the "Holiness," movement. Of course, as is the case with every movement, including the Reformation, the proceeding generations tend to lose the initial vision and it is replaced by form and function. So, many of the people that I have met were turned of by being raised to consider almost everything was "of the devil." Whether it was laughing or movies, or a certain length of skirt, so many different things.

Yet , of course, there is a tension in almost all aspects of the Scripture. It is like a belt in a car. Too tight and the belt snaps, to loose and the motor does not run. So, many of the Pentecostals are too loose when it comes to Holiness, and this does not honor God and leads to very low "standards", and many of the conservative Christians "holiness," flows from a "keeping the rules," mentality, it does not flow from the throne of grace and this often leads to self-righteousness.

We definately had both in Greenock. Typically the two do not mix :) Yet listen to what brother Robert says .........

"I think God wanted to bring deliverance to me and possibly others like me that always feel the need to come off as 'holy' or 'sober minded' or somehow 'spiritual'. understand that I am not saying I was a 'hypocrite' I am saying that at times we can try to come off more highly than we ought. There are many reasons for this, but it is as if God was saying it is OK for me to just be myself and allow His grace to mold me."

So, can I ask all who read this, are you honest before men and God? Does your "walk," flow from an intimate relationship with Him? Now we are getting close to revival, for what is revival but a personal encounter with the Living God that changes everything. You become more real, more authentic, more transparent. So, the people who are too "loose,' begin to walk in Holiness, and the people who are faking it, keeping the rules for man's sake, begin to walk in Holiness for God's sake. Actualy, this is exaclty why I wrote "There is therefore, now no condemnation.Let the sleeping army of God arise.


 2008/12/19 0:00

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