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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : It's Wrong To Push For Or Against Christmas

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TroyorTakoda
Member



Joined: 2008/12/13
Posts: 46


 Re:

Amen and Alleluia! O come, let us adore Him, Christ the Lord, every day and in every way in our lives, not just one day of the year. A Deity nigh and God most high is He. Thank you for reminding us of those glorious old Christmas hymns. There is a lot of wonderful and marvelous theology in them and we just cannot help but worship God all the more when we hear them.


_________________
Troy A Lasseigne

 2008/12/17 3:35Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: It's Wrong To Push For Or Against Christmas

Quote:

RebeccaF wrote:
If your going to celebrate it or not than do so but stop trying to convince people either way. If you feel you need to push this thing so hard you are probably suffering from an insecurity complex.LOL!:-P Rebuke the devil and he will flee!

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:



I'm sorry to be a stick in the mud, but where do we draw the line with this kind of thing? Many take issue with the emphasis placed on Halloween, and as a result, few would try to say, "Just call it All Saints Day. It's okay."

I have to admit that I'll be exchanging gifts and having a big dinner with my family on December 25th, but I also find myself increasingly disturbed about justifying the celebration of a pagan holiday by calling it Jesus Birthday. And I also find myself cringing every time I hear someone refer to the "real meaning of Christmas", without mentioning papal expansion into heathen nations, by incorporating their native religion into "Christendom".

What is wrong with this place, when the same verse is used by someone to justify their right to celebrate such a holiday, and then by another to criticise someone for keeping the sabbath?

Fair enough, you might not like it that people take issue with Christmas, but don't you think it's going a little too far to accuse them of "suffering from an insecurity complex" for doing so?


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Aaron Ireland

 2008/12/17 6:28Profile









 Re:

Quote:
What is wrong with this place, when the same verse is used by someone to justify their right to celebrate such a holiday, and then by another to criticise someone for keeping the sabbath?



First off... no one ever suggested that Christmas is a Law of God. So you're comparing apples to oranges. Some have said that it is a sin not to keep the Sabbath, and some have gone a step further and said it is a sin not to keep the Sabbath on Saturday.

No one here has ever said that not celebrating Christmas is a sin, yet it has been strongly suggested that celebrating it is.

If you do not celebrate Christmas I'm ok with that. In fact, I can safely say that I dont care because it's not really any of my business. Don't celebrate it. Especially if you can not celebrate it without sinning against your own conscience.

Everyone here knows that Decemeber 25th isnt Jesus birthday. The wise men were not there at the stable. Santa Claus is a cartoon character, and Rudolf is in my freezer. We get it.

So what?

Christmas is a day that many of us set aside in order to celebrate and rejoice in the fact that Jesus Christ left His throne in Heaven in order to come down here and give His life for a wretch like me... a chief of sinners. We could do it on March 13, or August 21... but we do it on Dec 25. There is no law in scripture for it, and there is NO law in scripture against it.

I personally dont think about paganism or Catholicism or the pope when I think of Christmas. I dont think about Catholic expansionism... or whatever it is you said. If those are the things that pop into your mind when you think of Christmas, then perhaps you need to get your mind on God and off of the world. I say that with all due respect. I'm not coming against you. But too many times Christians are so pre-occupied with the evil of this world, and demons behind every bush that they miss out on the abundant life in Christ. The joy that we are promised when we keep our eyes on HIM.

Believe it or not, just because [b]you[/b] cant think about Christmas without seeing anything but paganism [b]doesn't mean[/b] that's true for everyone else.

I dont remember who made the "insecurity complex" statement, but yes, that was an unfortunate statement. However, this is the same old, tired, dragged out, dead horse that gets beaten every single year on this forum after Thanksgiving. Every year. It's redundant.

Unfortunately tho, for those of us who do celebrate Christmas... we can not even come here and wish everyone a Merry Christmas without it turning into this very thing.

So I've said it before, and since we're basking in redundancy right now... I'll say it again: If you celebrate Christmas please respect those who do not. If you do not celebrate Christmas, please respect those of us who do.

After all... no one's salvation is judged by God based upon whether or not they celebrated Christmas. There is freedom and grace in this issue and it's about time people here started to understand that.

If there is a "merry Christmas" thread on this site, and you don't celebrate Christmas... bite your tongue.

If there is an anti-Christmas thread on this site, and you do celebrate Christmas... refrain from comments like the "insecurity complex" one that was made. It's not helpful.

Krispy

 2008/12/17 8:19









 Re:

Quote:

CJaKfOrEsT wrote:

Fair enough, you might not like it that people take issue with Christmas, but don't you think it's going a little too far to accuse them of "suffering from an insecurity complex" for doing so?



Please don't get me worng. I have no problem at all discussing the subject of Christmas, it's when people try to suggest that the other side is wrong if they don't do as they do. I have christians all the time ask me why I don't celebrate it and then when I do they get all bent out of shape. If their getting all worked up the problem lies with them right? I'm fine with my stand on Christmas so what's up with them??? That's what I'm getting at. :-)

Why the anger and lack of love? Not all are this way. Some can discuss the subject of Christmas maturely but I have found very few who can. :-) Their is no condemnation if your walking after the spirit.(Rom. 8:1) I believe everyone here for the most part is walking after the spirit or you wouldn't be on this forum, so be at peace and don't argue, that's all I'm trying to say.

 2008/12/17 9:29









 Re:

Rebecca... I think you understand my points!! Yea!

I'm not arguing for or against Christmas... I'm arguing for grace and freedom.

Krispy

 2008/12/17 9:34
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

A national holiday to honor the one that forever changed the fate and destiny of man forever.
A national holiday to honor the one that made the the biggest and most awesome contribution to mankind.

Great idea!!! They should call it Christ Mass,or something similar

 2008/12/17 10:10Profile
TroyorTakoda
Member



Joined: 2008/12/13
Posts: 46


 Re: Christmas

I will repeat what I said on the Grinch people thread, and then I am done talking about it.

Since when has celebrating Christ been a pagan practice? And since when do we take the word of men over the Word of God?

Again ...

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day

The kingdom of God does not lie in the observance of outward things, but in internal ones, in righteousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

If someone says to me that they don't celebrate a day called "Christmas" but rather they celebrate Jesus every day of the year, I have absolutely no problem with that. I will go on celebrating Christmas on December 25th, and I will go on loving my brother who does not celebrate that day.

Romans 14:1 says Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters and James 4:11 says Speak not one against another, brethren.

and that is all I have to say.


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Troy A Lasseigne

 2008/12/19 1:32Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:

I'm not arguing for or against Christmas... I'm arguing for grace and freedom.



Similarly, I am arguing for the right to "argue for or against", while retaining "grace and freedom". As I stated earlier, I am of two minds in this debate, but I take issue with those who won't consider the other side, or are so afraid of conflict that they stifle all expression.

Personally, I have greatly benefited from hearing contrary views to mine, around here. In fact, there have been many times that I have been shown to be wrong, that I was totally unaware of, before hand. I guess I find myself getting a little frustrated when people lose off to these kind of discussions.

Paul's words, "..Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend." (1 Cor 8:13) are addressed to the person who realises that he is free to eat anything, and that idols have no power, that they not allow their liberty to offend someone who is convicted of eating such.

Maybe the people who say "Christmas and Easter are pagan" have a point, and maybe they don't. Either way, it profits no one to mock them. So you have the "liberty" to see through what they see. For the most part, those of us who consider these things do so out of our study of Church History, seeing how these "holidays" came into being.

In this thread we have heard much of the side that would say that Christmas is meant to be all about celebrating the birth of the Messiah, and as long as we focus on that, it is good. This view has so far remained uncontested, and assumed to be the only valid one, which is peculiar, in that the title of the post is "It's Wrong To Push For Or Against Christmas".

And so I present an alternative view:

What if God sees the celebrating of Christmas and Easter as problematic as the Israelites honouring the Lord with their lips, but serving the gods of the land with their actions?

There was only one king in Judah who, after turning the nation back to God, went all the way, tearing down the high places, and reinstating the Passover. What is every reformation/revival in the past, even though good, fell short on such a point.

Are we open to the consideration of it, or will we just dismiss it all as ridiculous?


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2008/12/20 10:28Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Quote:

CJaKfOrEsT wrote:

Maybe the people who say "Christmas and Easter are pagan" have a point, and maybe they don't. Either way, it profits no one to mock them. So you have the "liberty" to see through what they see. For the most part, those of us who consider these things do so out of our study of Church History, seeing how these "holidays" came into being.

In this thread we have heard much of the side that would say that Christmas is meant to be all about celebrating the birth of the Messiah, and as long as we focus on that, it is good. This view has so far remained uncontested, and assumed to be the only valid one, which is peculiar, in that the title of the post is "It's Wrong To Push For Or Against Christmas".

And so I present an alternative view:

What if God sees the celebrating of Christmas and Easter as problematic as the Israelites honouring the Lord with their lips, but serving the gods of the land with their actions?

There was only one king in Judah who, after turning the nation back to God, went all the way, tearing down the high places, and reinstating the Passover. What is every reformation/revival in the past, even though good, fell short on such a point.

Are we open to the consideration of it, or will we just dismiss it all as ridiculous?



Hi Aaron,

Sorry to say, as with most matters of the heart, especially when the traditions of men are involved; the answer would be to “just dismiss it all as ridiculous. “ Sad yes but traditions are and have been held over the truth since there inception.

Galatians 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Childhood memories that are steeped in tradition are hard to give up; especially when we are guilty of introducing them to our children and grandchildren.

We all must make a decision which traditions we keep and which ones we discontinue,
And a good feeling or a childhood memory should have nothing to do with making these decisions; prayerfully reading God’s word and sharing with one another in love and grace, might.

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2008/12/20 12:28Profile





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