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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is it okay to sell your ministry as merchandise?

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davidt
Member



Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 327


 Is it okay to sell your ministry as merchandise?

I kinda have an understanding already but would like to receive wide counsel and glean from others. I am trying not to be judgmental or swallow camels and choke at gnats or so on. I see so many ministries being sold as merchandise like books, sermons, videos, conferences, ect. I even see marketing schemes or often this is free with an expected donation which can be the same as selling something. I have thought of many things that they may be thinking like selling at cost, it would look cheap and unprofessional if not sold, being payed for scholarly labor, tithe to the ministry, the Church it too sinful and not responsible enough to pay that which they ought by free will, and a million other things. Some of these I could see as legit but others are questionable. I mean isn't it to be given with free will and gladly and not by compulsion? There are even ministries among conservative Christian's like many on SI that sell the ministries like merchandies. So can someone tell me what they think, scriptures, pros and cons, justification and errors, philosophy and understanding, grace and legalism...?

 2008/12/1 20:51Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: Is it okay to sell your ministry as merchandise?

We cheapen the free gift of the gospel of grace
when we merchandise it!! Jesus would throw these
money-changers; who profit from selling the very
gifts He has freely given, out of the temple!!


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2008/12/1 21:30Profile
davidt
Member



Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 327


 Re:

Sojourner,

I know that some would be rebuked in this matter. But I am questioning which ones? For almost all prominent in the sense of large sell things. Even those which are respected like The Way of the Master, or Persecution.com, or a lot of others. Maybe this is an error but not that big. Maybe they have a justification. Maybe...

 2008/12/1 21:37Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

David, did you see Piper's recent blog on this subject? I agree with his view, which is to provide as much for free as possible. Basically, things which can be downloaded are given freely - .mp3 sermons, .mpeg videos, and the text for books and tracts, so that you can read or print it yourself. But, as a matter of stewardship, they sell physical items at very low prices, and have a name-your-price policy.

 2008/12/1 22:13Profile
davidt
Member



Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 327


 Re:

Mike,

Quote:
David, did you see Piper's recent blog on this subject?


I didn't see anything in the blog section. But, I saw a link at the top that said "urgent financial need". And he said basically what you are saying and also said that they will be 400k in debt if they don't receive donations. I think there are some interesting things going on in US ministries nowadays. I mean it seems that funds were easier to come by in the US and now ministries are being tested more in faith unto the supernatural and sacrificing simplicity. On the other hand I like the remark and response of DG how they said now it is more important then ever to give out free resources.


Quote:
I agree with his view, which is to provide as much for free as possible. Basically, things which can be downloaded are given freely - .mp3 sermons, .mpeg videos, and the text for books and tracts, so that you can read or print it yourself. But, as a matter of stewardship, they sell physical items at very low prices, and have a name-your-price policy.


Yeah I like the way that they do it and commend them for it. They are however one of only a very few who do so. I wonder though what is in the other ministries minds. Is it not a big deal or is there a reason or is it ok. Is it okay to sell your sermons? I can think of a couple reason why in certain circumstances. Imagine if you had to pay to get into a weekly meeting.

 2008/12/1 22:37Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

I totally agree with the heart of what you're saying.

I think you misread DesiringGod.com, about being "400k in debt." I believe they are simply expecting to receive $400,000 less than their regular annual income, and so will have to compensate with money from their savings. If the decrease in giving continues, then perhaps they would cut programs. But they are, so far as I know, absolutely committed to being debt-free and thus far have the means to stay out of debt. What they cannot do is give away everything freely forever without others who 'have abundance' sharing it with those who do not. I suppose that after being silent for years, they have summoned the Corinthian Clause, calling to mind Paul's teaching that "those who preach the gospel may live of it," and that "there ought to be an equality."

Here is that Piper article on giving stuff away for free: [url=http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/AskPastorJohn/ByTopic/83/3364_Should_ministries_offer_their_online_media_for_free/]Should ministries offer their online media for free?[/url]

You said, "Imagine if you had to pay to get into a weekly meeting."

That is my thought exactly.

I understand it takes money to buy equipment for recording and producing audio, but I think such ought to come from the local church. Paper books and DVDs cost money, but can be sold at the bare cost of production and distribution. Instead of youths working paid jobs in high-cost Christian book stores, maybe elderly believers could be roused into volunteer service at media distribution centers overseen by local churches? At least there might be some discretion about what is sold, for once! Compensating them for their time would be better, since they tend to need the jobs more than young people.

There is a balance to be sought. Paul had no shame in asserting the right of workers to compensation, or of the necessity for those with greater means to "lend to the Lord" on behalf of those with less. At the same time, we ought to be above reproach and remove as many stumbling blocks as possible which would cast question upon our motives.

Have you ever seen the prices at www.cvbbs.com? They sell books for cents above the wholesale cost. I bought Pink's 'Profiting from the Word' tonight, for about $3.50. On Amazon it is $6. There are groups doing this more like 'ministry' than 'business', but there ought to be more.

My church does not have a big book store, just a rack with maybe 30 books and pamphlets on it. But guess what, they are all free for the taking. That's part of our giving, to give to visitors and people with less cash.

 2008/12/1 23:35Profile
davidt
Member



Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 327


 Re:

Mike,

Quote:
I think you misread DesiringGod.com, about being "400k in debt." I believe they are simply expecting to receive $400,000 less than their regular annual income,


That is what I meant at a loss. I should have chosen more specific language.


Quote:
I understand it takes money to buy equipment for recording and producing audio,


When you said this I thought of the fact that it is not only the cost of the material and the bandwidth and the equipment but also the time and life of the minister that needs to be supported.

 2008/12/1 23:54Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

"It is not only the cost of the material and the bandwidth and the equipment but also the time and life of the minister that needs to be supported."

Correct. I bought gear to record audio books, but the fact is, to make one which sounds "high quality" requires as much as twenty hours. Now suppose I consider the effort worth $10 an hour, since those hours would be taken from my regular job. Then that's $200 to produce the book. And now, let's say I charge $10 for each copy, and 50 people purchase it. That's $500 made. My idea is that if I reinvest the surplus $300 into the same or other ministries, then that is ministry. But if I take the surplus and use it for my own life, above the amount I, with good conscience, considered worthy of the labor, then it is capitalism and business. So, the question to me is not whether someone receives compensation, but whether their compensation exceeds a reasonable rate for what their original effort was. Does that make sense?

Regarding things that are electronically transferable - music, sermons, videos, text - I think it is most often better to "privately invest" whatever means necessary to make the media, and then accept voluntary donations for the product once made. If others believe in what you're producing, they will back it, so that you can continue making more.

 2008/12/2 20:16Profile
davidt
Member



Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 327


 Re:

I know there are those who sell in a righteous way. I know there are those who sell in a false way. But then there are those who are kinda in the middle. They think, "I will sell my ministry material and make a profit off of it and it's not like I'm going to spend it on myself I am going to build my ministry". I think this is error and even though the motive is right it is in error. I think that the people should give by free will with a glad heart and even be instructed to do it in righteousness as it is right to do so. I do not think that it should be a forced thing though and in addition many don't have enough money. However I don't think I will condemn these ministries that do so. I think in our day and age it is really hard to keep people accountable since the population is so large and much is done impersonally over the web and what not. I think the Church is not responsible enough to do it the right way and so the way is messed up. I think it is an error but not quite a fatal one at least in certain circumstances. But once again I think it is weird to forcefully sell and the people should give by free will even if it is to grow your ministry.

 2008/12/2 21:30Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

I guess it boils down to who's ministry is it?

Gods or mans

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2008/12/2 22:52Profile





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