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if you would like an example of how it probably sounded try this;Christ the Lord is risen today and then click on the loudspeaker button for that hymn. Surprised?
Ron that sounds abit pampered. I think it would be abit more crude and 'with courage'. I am actually getting up 50+ mp3 hymns from a congregation in the USA, I believe they sing with all their hearts and accapala, I am looking forward to getting them up soon, the Lord has been showing me the beauty and the wonderful heritage of hymns and I hope to perserve them at SI and also get others to be blessed by them.
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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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|  2004/7/20 16:08 | Profile | philologos
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Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
Ron that sounds abit pampered.
Greg
Yes, I think you are right, but Maddy Prior is a well known traditional singer in the UK and it was just the sound and speed of instruments that I thought was telling. If you sing them at this speed you will have enough breath to sing the verses properly, if you sing them at the normal church pace you will end up out of breath.
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2004/7/20 16:12 | Profile | sermonindex
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Yes, I think you are right, but Maddy Prior is a well known traditional singer in the UK and it was just the sound and speed of instruments that I thought was telling.
Yes it does sound great no doubt but in comparison to wesley himself singing it was my mental picture when writing that message. I recall that he used to go in a market and bellow out a hymn and then people would gather to hear. And then after he finished the hymn he would preach open air to them. Thats a very interesting note on the pace of the music, is Maddy Prior's singing faster or slower than traditional church music, hence you notice im not musically or vocally talented. Pretty much tone deaf actually.
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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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| | 2004/7/20 16:17 | Profile | sermonindex
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If you want Wesley's full instructions for hymn singing you will find them here; Wesley's Instructions
WOW thank you Ron this is great I just have to share with people here so they catch this, great information:
[b]Wesley's Directions For Singing[/b]
I. Learn these tunes before you learn any others; afterwards learn as many as you please.
II. Sing them exactly as they are printed here, without altering or mending them at all; and if you have learned to sing them otherwise, unlearn it as soon as you can.
III. Sing all. See that you join with the congregation as frequently as you can. Let not a single degree of weakness or weariness hinder you. If it is a cross to you, take it up, and you will find it a blessing.
IV. Sing lustily and with good courage. Beware of singing as if you were half dead, or half asleep; but lift up your voice with strength. Be no more afraid of your voice now, nor more ashamed of its being heard, then when you sung the songs of Satan.
V. Sing modestly. Do not bawl, so as to be heard above or distinct from the rest of the congregation, that you may not destroy the harmony; but strive to unite your voices together, so as to make one clear melodious sound.
VI. Sing in time. Whatever time is sung be sure to keep with it. Do not run before nor stay behind it; but attend close to the leading voices, and move therewith as exactly as you can; and take care not to sing to slow. This drawling way naturally steals on all who are lazy; and it is high time to drive it out from us, and sing all our tunes just as quick as we did at first.
VII. Above all sing spiritually. Have an eye to God in every word you sing. Aim at pleasing him more than yourself, or any other creature. In order to do this attend strictly to the sense of what you sing, and see that your heart is not carried away with the sound, but offered to God continually; so shall your singing be such as the Lord will approve here, and reward you when he cometh in the clouds of heaven.
[i]From John Wesley's Select Hymns, 1761[/i]
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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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| | 2004/7/20 16:22 | Profile | KingJimmy
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Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | So, are there any other suggested hymn books out there?
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Jimmy H
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| | 2004/7/20 19:06 | Profile | philologos
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Reading, UK
| | Re: | | One of our brothers in the church here is scanning one of our hymn books. It has 120 Wesley hymns. It is part of our regular hymn menu. When he has completed it I will get a copy to Greg. THere will be some repitition with the MEthodist Hymn book but Methodist hymns constantly changed with new verses added or verses removed. Others have diluted the Wesleyan theology significantly.
Here is an example. Most will know 'And can it be'. There is a missing verse in between 'Long my imprisoned spirit lay' and 'no condemnation now I dread', it reads
Still the small inward voice I hear,
That whispers all my sins forgiven;
Still the atoning blood is near,
That keeps me clean and fit for Heaven:
I feel the life His wounds impart
I feel my Saviour in my heart.
It relates to present holimess and the genuine witness of the Spirit in a way that is foreign to much new hymnology. Modern Christians have become suspicious of 'feelings'.
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2004/7/21 4:07 | Profile | KingJimmy
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It relates to present holimess and the genuine witness of the Spirit in a way that is foreign to much new hymnology. Modern Christians have become suspicious of 'feelings'.
How horriable that they would remove such a beautiful section, so rich in theology. It is true though, that even Christian thinkers today are attempting to ignore the subjective aspects of our faith.
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Jimmy H
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| | 2004/7/21 6:34 | Profile | repenter
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Posts: 26
Southern Ontario, Canada
| | Re: | | A hymn book that is used in some of the Brethren circles is simply called "Believers Hymn Book". It is small (3'X 5') and just contains the words and the metre/tune name of the hymns. There are a lot of older hymns, with a lot more verses than the typical modern hymnal. I think they are back in print in the UK. The publisher of the one we have is Pickering & Inglis Ltd., London.
For a modern hymnal though, I really love "The Hymnal for Praise and Worship" and "Great Hymns of the Faith". The latter has a lot of the older hymns, the former has a great mixture of hymns, some choruses, and lots of good but not as commonly used songs. |
| | 2004/7/21 8:45 | Profile | philologos
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Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Greg
In addition to Wesley's instruction as the the singing of hymns I thought you might like this excerpt from the preface to the original volume.
"May I be permitted to add a few words with regard to the poetry? Then I will speak, to those who are judges thereof, with all freedom and unreserve. To these I may say without offence,
1. In these hymns there is no doggerel; no botches; nothing put in to patch up the rhyme; no feeble expletives.
2. Here is nothing turgid or bombast on the one band, or low and creeping, on the other.
3. Here are no cant expressions; no words without meaning. Those who impute this to us know not what they say. We talk common sense, both in prose and verse, and use no word but in a fixed and determinate sense.
4. Here are, allow me to say, both the purity, the strength, and the elegance of the English language; and, at the same time, the utmost simplicity and plainness, suited to every capacity. Lastly, I desire men of taste to judge, (these are the only competent judges,) whether there be not in some of the following hymns the true spirit of poetry, such as cannot be acquired by art and labour but must be the gift of nature. By labour a man may become a tolerable imitator of Spenser, Shakespeare, or Milton; and may heap together pretty compound epithets, as pale-eyed, meek-eyed, and the like; but unless he be born a poet, be will never attain the genuine spirit of poetry.
And here I beg leave to mention a thought which has been long upon my mind, and which I should long ago have inserted in the public papers, had I not been unwilling to stir up a nest of hornets. Many gentlemen have done my brother and me (though without naming us) the honour to reprint many of our hymns. Now they are perfectly welcome so to do, provided they print them just as they are. But I desire they would not attempt to mend them; for they really are not able. None of them is able to mend either the sense or the verse. Therefore, I must beg of them one of these two favours: either to let them stand just as they are, to take them for better for worse; or to add the true reading in the margin, or at the bottom of the page; that we may no longer be accountable either for the nonsense or for the doggerel of other men.
But to return. That which is of infinitely more moment than the spirit of poetry, is the spirit of piety. And I trust all persons of real judgment will find this breathing through the whole Collection. It is in this view, chiefly, that I would recommend it to every truly pious reader, as a means of. Raising or quickening the spirit of devotion; of confirming his faith; of enlivening his hope; and of kindling and increasing his love to God and man. When poetry thus keeps its place, as the handmaid of Piety, it shall attain, not a poor perishable wreath, but a crown that fadeth not away."
John Wesley, London Oct 20 1779
Preface to A Collection of Hymns for the use of the people called Methodists
His paragraph against 'improvers' always makes me smile. :-)
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2004/7/23 11:02 | Profile | disciplejosh
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Joined: 2003/6/13
Posts: 210
Southern California
| | Re: | | Hey guys,
I actually use a Brethren's Hymn Book in my devotional time alone with the Lord. It's one of those previously mentioned, but original, not a reprint. It's from 1881, small, in poor shape, packed with 818 hymns, an alphabetical list of hymns with the authors name, table of contents, index of subjects, and a scripture index for each song. I wouldn't trade it for the world. I found it on ebay, KingJimmy. cost next to nothing. Worth more than almost any other 'book' i possess. :-)
Keep looking , bro. I'll help look for you now that I know what you're looking for.
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Josh
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| | 2004/7/23 15:00 | Profile |
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