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PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 A Release of Frustration

Dear brethren,

Over the years I have found that sharing some of my frustrations on this site has helped me in the past, and brought a sense of solidarity to others who may be experiencing the same.

The church my wife and I attend is a vibrant AG fellowship in Texas. We are situated in the middle of San Marcos - the home of Texas State University. There are lots of college kids. As result, the church is compelled to highly contemporize the praise and worship for our young visitors (we sometimes do "Newsboys" songs and other Christian top 40 billboard songs). The volume is loud, some of the musicians dress seemingly to make a fashion statement: grunge, tweed blazers with the shirt untucked, jeans and hair gell. A female generally leads the worship, and she is like a firecracker leaping around, speaking in tongues, shouting, preaching to the congregation in-between the songs, etc. My poor ears can't take it anymore. I have to wait outside in lobby entrance during these times, my ears hurt, my head pounds, I sense myself becoming agitated. It has been going on like this for over a year now.

If I establish eye contact with a deacon, he will ask me to help take a collection, publically read a Bible passage (which he has chosen), or just come up and pray over something at the drop of a hat. This is because I am respected as someone "spiritually mature" in the flock. Yesterday, I was asked to come forward with the "prayer team" and help pray and I kindly declined, opting instead to stay behind in my seat and pray from there. It was an awkward moment. I'm tired of being expected to perform, to endorse soul. I relinquished my credentials earlier this year because I can't take the foolery anymore. The allowance of women to do whatever they want to on the platform; the compulsory tithing under threat of a curse; the offensive rock music, and the sermons never seem to deepen - they just remain at the same level to reach and speak to those who are content to meet them eye-to-eye.

I long for the singing of some plain old Charles Wesley hymns, with just piano or accapella. I long for a meaty sermon on the New Birth or the dynamic of Sin, or the power of the blood of Christ. Something with strong meat that is able to work revelation and spiritually metabolize under the authority of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks for letting me vent! The more I study the Word, the more I sing hymns in the quiet time, the more I soak myself in scripture and read good, wholesome literature by the saints of old, the more disgruntled I get with where I fellowship. Please try to refrain from offering me the banal, "Why don't you just pray about joining another fellowship..." because that base is already covered. I am where I am for a reason; it's just that this forum is really the only place I can vent (and you know it doesn't happen often) and expect some good, constructive thought from you guys in return.

See, I feel better already :-)


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/11/24 8:51Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2680
Nottingham, England

 Re: A Release of Frustration

I can understand your frustation. I've visited churches like that, and at one point I just walked out because what was going to take place was so predictable and sad.

Songs and singing with no depth, I dare not call it worship, for I wonder if in God's eyes it was.

Sermons which, yes, they did use scripture, but you were left wondering, is that all there is to the message. Sometimes, the singing was nearly twice as long as the sermon.

But, in Revelation 3, we find the church in Sardis, and it has different groups of people in this one church.

This church had a name that was known, but they were dead.

They needed to strengthen the things that remained.

They also needed to repent

There were also those who had not defiled their garments and shall walk with Christ in white for they were worthy.

We should strive to be like those who walk in white, that is what God is looking for.

Take heart, God knows.

God bless.

 2008/11/24 9:55Profile
Nellie
Member



Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re:

Brother Paul.
Your letter reveals to me, that you are growing in the Lord Jesus Christ.
You really know that all that you are witnessing in Church, is grieving your Savior, so it is grieving you, also.

Thank you for sharing this.

I have been where you are now, and God brought me out of the Church that I had belonged to for Years.

You just obey the Lord, Brother, and it won't be easy, but we all have the assurance, that" His Yoke is easy, and His Burden is Light. "

God Bless you.
Nellie

 2008/11/24 10:12Profile
davym
Member



Joined: 2007/5/22
Posts: 326


 Re: A Release of Frustration

Quote:
There are lots of college kids. As result, the church is compelled to highly contemporize the praise and worship for our young visitors



Why is the church 'compelled'? Is God compelling them or is the world? I'm guessing your church feels it has to offer this music to attract young people. Personally, I am reluctant to call this music 'worship'. That of course is not to say that it isn't. It just isn't for me. There is a certain amount of it in my church, but thankfully it is kept to a minimum.

From reading the Bible it is clear to me that we are not called to entertain even though this may achieve higher church numbers. To quote an old time preacher "if you get on fire for Christ, the people will come and watch you burn". A little crude I know, but the principle is clear. I believe we're on the wrong track with contemporary music. We're losing the power of the Holy Spirit.

Quote:
This is because I am respected as someone "spiritually mature" in the flock.



This is encouraging brother.

Quote:
I long for a meaty sermon on the New Birth or the dynamic of Sin, or the power of the blood of Christ. Something with strong meat that is able to work revelation and spiritually metabolize under the authority of the Holy Spirit.



Perhaps you could preach in your church? I'm not sure whether God has opened this door for you yet, but you sound like a wonderful asset to your church.

The point you have raised is a common one. It's not easy to deal with because it's hard to know if the Holy Spirit is in this worship or not, but keep pressing on brother.

In Christ

David


_________________
David

 2008/11/24 10:38Profile
live4jc
Member



Joined: 2008/10/2
Posts: 203


 Re:



Dear brother Paul,

In the short while I’ve been on this discussion forum, I’ve really come to appreciate the wisdom and Biblical grounding that is in your posts. I can relate to many of the concerns you have written about. In the past 2 years, our family has been in 2 churches that were of a Pentecostal/ Charismatic bent and now we are attending a Baptist church. For us, there came a time when we felt it was necessary to leave both of these churches, however this decision was one which came about over time, and God has unique plans and seasons for all of us.

I’ll describe briefly some of the things that were going on at the original church we were at. First, there was much that was a blessing to us at this church and this was the church that my wife and I were married in. This church has a large children’s program which underwent some changes over time, as new leadership assumed control of this area of the church. The focus shifted from stories and activities which were instructive, and were of a challenging nature, to entertaining the kids. The kids services featured black lights, dry ice, and syncho-pop music which kids and leaders would dance to. Some of the songs had lyrics that bothered us. For instance, in one song the kids were asked to “shake your behinds”. For us, the breaking point came when a newer children’s leader was performing a skit and used the term ‘sexy’ to describe himself. Meanwhile, the sermons we listened to in the adult service were well thought out and well prepared, but a ‘marketing mentality’ became the driving force of the church, as time progressed.

The next church we attended seemed very promising at the outset. Initially, we were drawn to it after listening to some of the pastor’s sermons that were available for download from the church web site. He seemed like an old fashioned preacher. Moreover, when my wife asked him who his favorite authors were, he listed those like F.B. Meyer, A.W. Tozer, and Andrew Murray. However, we later found out that he was developing a new group of favorite authors, which consisted of people like Joel Osteen. We discussed our concerns about Osteen by email with him, which lead him to reply that he was ‘putting him on the shelf’, because of the issues that we raised. However, we remained a bit unsettled in spirit, not knowing if he had just done this to please us, or if he had truly come to see the serious errors of prosperity teaching, and other related teachings. After a year of attending, we were loathe to leave this church, especially since the people there were so friendly and loving. But as ‘Kingdom Theology’ became more and more of a feature of the sermons, and alternate Sunday nights were devoted to teaching “Principles of Kingdom Living’, we believed it was time to move to another church.

The church we attend now, is very biblically focused. It’s taken us some time to get used to having only hymns in the worship part of the service. While I don’t like certain contemporary choruses, I do enjoy the fact that there is liberty and joy manifested when songs are sung that promote some of what we are urged to do in the Psalms (eg ‘Shout to the Lord’, Break forth into jubilant song’ etc). I feel that some modern choruses are lacking in their spiritual meaning, while others are quite good. However, despite the fact that my wife and I would like to see more enthusiasm and joy demonstrated during worship, we have by and large been very happy with our new church. We have been challenged by the sermons. Some of them touch on vital topics such as ‘church discipline’ which have been pretty gone by the way side, and are no longer seen as applicable to our modern generation.

I don’t know if anything I’ve written will be helpful, as generally your venting has just prompted me to do the same :-) I can relate though, and it is nice to be able to share these concerns with people who feel much the same way. I will pray for you for God’s guidance and strength. May He bless you and cause His face to shine upon you !

Yours in Christ,
John

 2008/11/24 13:10Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re: A Release of Frustration

Dear Paul,

I have been through this myself, and I believe countless others here on this forum.

After I awoke rudely from my backslidden state, I became aware of the shallowness and triviality of much of our church services. Much of this I credit to preaching here on SI! I tried to engage with others in discussions and stated my concerns with many people and the leadership. My points were not taken into considerantion and so we left.

My advice is that God shows you these things for a reason beyond your own benefit. You should after much prayer speak to your leadership and the member individualy, may be they see the point. Remember, the majority of your church may be in false security and may be rejected by the Lord on the last day. You have to warn them in a spirit of deep compasssion. Can you imagine the gratitude of a soul rescued from such a state on the last day? I rather perplex 99 and win one rather then let them get lost.

Jude 22Be merciful to those who doubt; 23snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

Also Ezechiel 33 whole chapter.

Your are in fellowship with the prophets of old in this situation, they suffered about their people and you are not exempt.

While you remain where you are, I also advise you to seek fellowship with some likeminded believers for mutual refreshment and to maintain your spiritual sanity. This is vital for survial. It is very difficult to harbour spiritual anguish as you do for a prolonged time and not somehow become negatively affected.

I still battle depressive moods because of this situation. Now we are in a fellowship where things are better from the teaching side. Still I am looking for an authentic expression of what Jesus and Paul had in mind when they talked about the church and I told the Lord that I want to experience it once in my lifetime or else he can take me away.

Quote:
"Why don't you just pray about joining another fellowship





Banal, but this is what you should do after you exhausted your options.

narrowpath

 2008/11/24 14:17Profile
Lor_E
Member



Joined: 2006/12/23
Posts: 248
Montana USA

 Re: A Release of Frustration

My this sounds all too familiar! although there are several hundred miles apart geographically speaking, it seems to be going around, this sort of sickness. I call it a sickness because it seems to me to be opposite of wholeness, which is what the Lord gives.

We went to a church much like this for several years endeavoring to be whatever kind of a testimony we could be there. When they would ask me to sing I would quite often sing accapella, and though I might share beforehand usually it was simply reading a verse from scripture or a prayer... surprisingly there were many people who liked the quietness of singing without hulabaloo, even many young people would come to me and appreciated to words they heard.

My husband often taught an adult Sunday School class, and though he would sometimes feel that some were offended at what he spoke, many people appreciated to straight forward gospel that he spoke. Even an older preacher who came to this church from a rather larger more popular one after he retired asked my husband where he studied at and told him how much he appreciated his spirit.

There were times that he or I were asked to pray for people and so on, and we tried to be very sensitive to the Holy Spirit on that and pray what He would have us pray which, though sometimes, was awkward to the flesh nevertheless was what was often needed... for more than just the issue at hand, but even for the hearers.

We certainly stood out like the proverbial "sore thumb"; but, I heard from a friend of mine who ran into someone who still currently attends that church (we moved from the area about 5 years ago) that the person that she missed was myself, which quite frankly shocked me indeed!

While church "leadership" tries to bring in the numbers and dollars, there are still many people there whose hearts really want to just hear what God would say to the church. There are still people, regardless of age that still appreciate the message from hymns and the simplicity of accapella or singular instrument, if it is annointed.

As a matter of fact there are many people who are just downright starved for fellowship with the Father and the Son; who long for people to just be real that care for their souls; there are plenty of folks who, yes and amen, need to have strengthened those things that remain; even that have a hope that somewhere, someone else desires to be obedient more than they fear man, more than they want to see acceptance, more than numbers, really more than anything else.

When the time is right, as I'm sure you know, God will remove you from this congregation; I say that only because I've seen it over and over again; but until then there are other Christians that just need to see you there. They probably need to see you say, 'no, I'll just pray from here for now.'; they may see you as a hope for the true Christianity they long for much more than you may ever know.

I'm sorry to go on. It just seems to be such a struggle in this present day.

(I do not mean this verse that you by any means have fear, only as a source of encouragement.)

[i]Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, He it is that doth go with thee; He will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.[/i] Dt. 31:6

Lord bless you,
Lori


_________________
Lori Salyer

 2008/11/24 14:24Profile
White_Stone
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 1196
North Central Florida

 You are not alone with those concerns and wants

Dear Brother West,

My husband and I have given up searching for a physical church to attend. We spend time each day listening to and reading the Bible. The closer to the Lord we get the less any of the worldly trappings we are able to swallow.

Praise Jesus for His good providence to place us in a Country that has free access (for the time being, anyway) to the Bible and groups such as this. There but for the Grace of God is not a statement to be taken lightly.

I am glad you vented. Your concerns are valid. Follow your conscience.

Kind regards,
white stone



_________________
Janice

 2008/11/24 14:45Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

Paul, just recently my Daughter was "kicked off" is the way I will put it the Prayer partners team at Lakewood, they have to be there one hr. early to just stand in some little covey hole location of the Church and Pray for a solid hr. Well my daughter asked the team leader instead of the one hr. Prayer time in the group, wouldn't it be better if we all walked around the Church greeting and Praying for folks that need individual prayer and the lady was so hard headed and closed minded she told my Daughter if she did not like the way things were done to move on. Now let me vent as nice as this old Texas boy can, I wanted to slap her silly the way she put it to my daughter and I still may if I am ever having a bad day one Sunday, I will just have to ask God to forgive me. :-)

Well my daughter keep her Prayer Partner ID tag because no one has had the backbone to ask her for it back,"yea I am upset to" so now during Prayer time, she just gets up out of her seat and goes were Gods leads her to pray for folks and it seems now the "real leaders" of the church are liking this and have approached my daughter on how to structure this and may start a different smaller team for this. The Church in my opinion needs to do some "house cleaning" to get rid of some of the folks that I feel do things as they see fit and "NOT" whats Gods leads them to do, they structure things to satisfy the majority or themselves, we want to keep the majority happy or myself, who cares what anyone else thinks is the new attitude.


_________________
Bill

 2008/11/24 14:46Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Thanks to everyone for your contributions. I guess what really motivated me to post this was the feeling I had waking up this morning. The trouble entering into quiet time, remembering what the praise and worship leader told me after the show was over yesterday. She came up to me and whispered in my ear: "You ALWAYS need to come up with the prayer team...."

This upset me. I gently told her, "Sister, I'll come up when I'm led to come up." She was taken aback and continued on her way, but it stuck with me. I told my wife about it, and she reminded me that I needed to be instant in season, out of season. This I am familiar with, but I also believe that not being led by God trumps any season you may be in at the moment.

We have home Bible studies with the deacons of my church, Matthew Henry style, and I lead the studies...and this is where God has me right now, and why I am to be at this particular church. The deacons are getting their first taste of deeper devotions, being introduced to men like Watson and Flavel and Mueller through our studies. They came to me and expressed the need for "something deeper" to supplement the Sunday morning sermons. Usually I am fine at church (meaning I can moderately tolerate the atmosphere), but yesterday it really tore into me. And then the prompting from the Chi Alpha pastor and worship leader to perform...it just perturbed me. It carried over to this morning, where I was "disquieted" by it during quiet time. My impulse was to make this thread and vent. I realize there's nothing deep and wise here - I know many of you have come to expect as much from my postings - and I apologize for that. The truth is, I get frustrated just like everyone else, and need to vent (whether in the flesh or not, I'll let you judge).

And, yes, I have prayed about different fellowships, and the answer from God is to [i]stay[/i] until told otherwise. Those of you who are seated in solid fellowships where flesh and soul are discerned and avoided, you really don't know how blessed you are. How I long for purity in worship, corporate worship, and for strong, holy preaching that staggers the inner man. How I long for the simplicity of hymns without anyone's persona injected.

O brethren, let's pray for one another.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/11/24 16:08Profile





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