SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Easter or Passover?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4526


 Re:

Waltern...

Quote:
This is such a sad thing to see. You have looked this up somewhere, probably on Metzger’s anti-King James website, and posted it here without even checking it out to see if it is true. And then you expect to be taken seriously? Ccchhhrrriiisss, this is not your work. You have not searched the King James on your own and found these “discrepancies”, but merely cut and pasted them from the works of others who are opposed the King James enough to do everything in their power to malign it, even to deceive others. You were decieved by their work, and then passed it on her unknowingly trying to decieve others.


Waltern, I have already asked you to refrain from such false assumptions and character assassination. I heard of these discrepencies a long time ago and then looked them up myself.

Before you LIE again, please think before you write. This, by the way, is a rebuke...in love, dear brother. I know that you embrace the KJV, but I would hope that you could discuss this without such a poor choice of words regarding your assumptions of those with whom you disagree (which I hope that you can't be so strange as to believe).

Should I, however, make a list of all such apparent errors so that you can explain them away in the effort to preserve your belief that the KJV is perfectly preserved down to the last "dot and tittle?" So far, you haven't provided one satisfactory defense other than an opinion (and a quote from a KJV-only source).

:-(


_________________
Christopher

 2008/11/21 3:15Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Bro. Waltern,

I use the KJV because i believe it is a reliable version to the original but I do not believe that the translation is as perfect as the original writings. I will not worship the KJV because I will only worship God.

I must say I was disappointed that you took the word Easter which is translated 26 other times as passover to try and defend the accuracy of the KJV.

It is also clear that the scripture before it mentions the days of unleavened bread.

I do hope that we can all get along in christian love and move on to more profitable studies.

 2008/11/21 10:38Profile









 Re:KJV, NIV, NASB, ETC.



To ccchhhrrriiisss:

I have answered your first question about the difference between II Samuel 24:9 (KJV) &
1 Chronicles 21: 5 (KJV).

The reason the verses do not agree is that they are from two separte Books from God's Word, written by two separate men at different times in history, empowered by the Holy Ghost, that are explaining the counting that David ordered performed of the Israelites. God did not want David to do this, but he did it anyway.

In one book (2nd Samuel), we see the full count. In another book (1 Chronicles), the count is different. Why is the count different? Because God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, reveals to us that when Joab counted the tribes, he purposely did not include the tribes Levi and Benjamin.

Can you understand this concept, Chris? God is revelaing to us what really happened. David got the final count by including the tribes of Levi and Dan once he became aware of what Joab had done.

God has revealed to us through one of His Books (1 Chronicles) how Joab mioscounted the people on purpose. Then, in a parallel book (2 Samuel), going over the same event, by another author, empowered by the Holy Spirt, God has revealed to us the actual count of all the tribes of Israel.

This is a further help to understand this issue:

The 800,000 form Israel in 2 Samuel 24:9 may not have included the 300,000 listed in 1 Chronicles 27, which would make the total (as in 1 Chronicles) 1,100,000. The 470,000 in Judah may not have included the 30,000 of 2 Samuel 6:1, which would bring the total to 500,000. Or, perhaps the Chronicles figure represents a round number.

[b][color=990000]In conclusion, if you really studied your NIV, in the Old Testament, the same "discrepancy" (as you like to characterize it) found in your reference above between 2nd Samuel 24:9 & 1 Chronicles 21: 5 EXISTS IN THE NIV AND THE NEWER VERSIONS AS WELL.


So, that must mean that you do not trust the Authorized version (the King James Bible) nor do you trust the NIV or other "newer" versions. WHY? Because they all quote the same text, the same numbers, identical to the King James Version!!!!!!!

The King James quotes 2nd Samuel 24:9 as:
" 9. And Joab gave up the sum of the number of the people unto the king: and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the sword; and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.

The King James quote 1 Chronicles 21:5 as:
" 5. And Joab gave the sum of the number of the people unto David. And all they of Israel were a thousand thousand and an hundred thousand men that drew sword: and Judah was four hundred threescore and ten thousand men that drew sword."

2nd Samuel 24:9 & 1 Chronicles 21:5
American Standard= identical to the KJV
New King James= identical To the KJV
Living Bible= identical to the KJV
Revised Standard= identical to the KJV
New American Standard= identical to the KJV
New Jerusalem Bible= identical to the KJV
NIV= identical to the KJV

So the answer is, all of the versions, including the King James, agree with each other
And have an identical rendering of the NUMBERS.[/color][/b]

[b][color=0000FF]Well, here were again ccchhhrrriiisss and it appears that you have not done your homework to prove your post before making blatant accusations. Specifically:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
POSTED BY CCCHHHRRRIIISSS EARLIER:
I repeat, Waltern...

If God "perfectly preserved" the KJV "down to the last dot and tittle" (as you have said before), then how come those mistakes exist in the text? Take, for instance, the difference between II Samuel 24:9 and I Chronicles 21:5. Notice a discrepency in the numbers here?

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

ccchhhrrriiisss---does this drastic error of yours have any affect on you? Only wondering.

Sincerely,

Walter[/color][/b]


 2008/11/21 16:26









 Re:



To Rbanks:

I provided this on a previous post. In order to understand the Feasts of the Lord, given by God through Moses in the Old Testament, it is imperative to study them.

The feasts we are focused on in this thread are: the feast of Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and the Feast of Firstfruits.

These Feasts were established by God to take place at specific times of the year, on specific months on specific days--- forever and were celebrated in the month of Abib:

14th of Abib= Passover--one day Feast
15th of Abib= Feast of Unleavened Bread-
the first day of this feast, the 15th was celebrated as a Sabath day, even though it occurred on different days of the week than Saturday. It was called a "High Holy Day". It was to be celebrated for 7 days, finishing at the end of the 21st.
17th of Abib= Feast of Firstfruits. One day Feast

The year Christ died on the Cross for our sins:

1. The 14th occurred on a Thursday, just like it did in the year that God led the Jews out of Egypt with a mighty hand.

2. The 15th occurred on a Friday. The Jewish "day" starts at 6:00 P.M. and continues until the next day, at 6:00 P.M. when the next day would start.Jesus had to be taken off the cross before the High Day (a High Holy Day). The 15th was celebrated as a High Holy Day--see John 19:31 that proves that Christ was taken down from the cross before the start of the Feast of Unleavened bread, which was a "High day", that started on the evening of the 14th, that occured at 6:00 P.M.--and not the regular Sabath day (Saturday)
John 19:31. The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

The 17th occurred on a Sunday, and is the feast of Firstfruits. It is also the day that Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead--Jesus Christ is our FIRSTFRUITS!

If this has any interest to you, the following verses will be helpful:

The Passover occurs on one day, and one day alone. The day? The 14th of Abib (Tishre), the day that God led the Jews out of Egypt with a mighty hand. It is also the same day that Jesus Christ was crucified for our sins, the day of Passover, the 14th of Abib (Tishre). He was crucified at the 3rd hour (9:00 A.M.), at the time of the MORNING SACRIFICE that had taken place at the Tabernacle, and later at the Temple since God commanded it in Exodus, and gave up the Ghost at the 9th hour (3:00 P.M.), the time of the evening sacrifice at the Temple.

Please check out the following for a full understanding of the Passover and when it was celebrated. Passover was commanded by God to ALWAYS be celebrated on the 14th of Abib (Tishre):

Exosus, Chapter 12; Leviticus 23:5-6; Numbers Chapter 9; Numbers Chapter 28; Numbers Chapter 23; Deuteronomy Chapter 16; Joshua, Chapter 5; 2nd Kings Chapter 23; Chronicles Chapter 35; Ezra Chapter 6

Christ is our Passover (1 Cor 1:5). Christ is our Firstfruits (1 Cor. 15:20).


Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

rbanks wrote:
Bro. Waltern,

I use the KJV because i believe it is a reliable version to the original but I do not believe that the translation is as perfect as the original writings. I will not worship the KJV because I will only worship God.

I must say I was disappointed that you took the word Easter which is translated 26 other times as passover to try and defend the accuracy of the KJV.

It is also clear that the scripture before it mentions the days of unleavened bread.

I do hope that we can all get along in christian love and move on to more profitable studies.

 2008/11/21 17:05
paulamicela
Member



Joined: 2008/6/12
Posts: 40


 Re:

It is sad that this this thread has turned into another full-fledged Bible version debate.

Waltern, the sermonindex.net moderators have already given warnings.

Chris, I know that this is an interesting topic (I like to discuss it myself), but this debate is getting absolutely nowhere. It might be most expedient to end the discussion.

-Paul


_________________
Paul W. Lamicela

 2008/11/21 17:11Profile









 Re:


To Paulamicela:

Come on Paul, be nice.

Have you studied this entire thread, or did you just look at the last one or two posts?


What has been posted on this thread has been of great interest to some. I pray that those who participate in it will have a better understanding of Scripture and will have a closer walk with our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Sincerely,

Walter
:-)

Quote:

paulamicela wrote:
It is sad that this this thread has turned into another full-fledged Bible version debate.

Waltern, the sermonindex.net moderators have already given warnings.

Chris, I know that this is an interesting topic (I like to discuss it myself), but this debate is getting absolutely nowhere. It might be most expedient to end the discussion.

-Paul

 2008/11/21 20:11
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4526


 Re:

Hi Waltern...

I read your answer, and still do not agree with it. I was wondering: Do you have an explanation for each of the other examples of error? I could include more examples of KJV errors (if you need them).

My point? Just to show you that although the KJV is a good translation, it is not "perfect" and "preserved" down to the "last dot and tittle."


_________________
Christopher

 2008/11/21 20:43Profile









 Re:Discrepancies? NOT!


[b]Ccchhhrrriiisss posted the following to Walter:[/b]

I read your answer, and still do not agree with it. I was wondering: Do you have an explanation for each of the other examples of error? I could include more examples of KJV errors (if you need them).
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[b]Walter's response to ccchhhrrriiisss:[/b]

When have you ever agreed with anything that I have ever posted?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[b]ccchhhrrriiisss continues:[/b]

Brother, you believe that God has "perfectly preserved" His Word...and that it is found in the KJV (even though, in this case, the original source used for this passage disagrees with the way it was translated). So you argue away this apparent mistake. But what about the other mistakes in the KJV? I pointed these out in another thread. Most of these examples are from the Old Testament (and, thus, not from the Textus Receptus). Yet they are undeniable mistakes nonetheless. If God "perfectly preserved" His written Word "down to the last dot and tittle" (as you have said before), then how come those mistakes exist in the text?

How about the differences in numbers between II Samuel 24:24 and I Chronicles 21:22-25? I Kings 4:26 and II Chronicles 9:25? I Kings 5:16 and II Chronicles 2:2? I Kings 7:15-22 and II Chronicles 3:15-17? I Kings 7:26 and II Chronicles 4:5? I Kings 16:6-8 and II Chronicles 16:1? II Kings 8:25-26 and II Chronicles 22:2? Notice a discrepency in the numbers here?


Should I go on? These are apparent contraditions that occur in the Old Testament of the KJV (and some other versions). Is God's Word perfectly preserved to the last "dot and tittle" -- or does it contain some errors?

Your entire argument for the KJV seems based upon the notion that the KJV (and almost, the KJV alone) is supernaturally "perserved" as entirely and completely perfect in every way

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[color=660000][b]Walter responds to ccchhhrrriiisss:

Guess what? There are no differences between the KJV and other versions in regards to the MISTAKES OR DISCREPENCIES IN THE "NUMBERS" THAT YOU POST ABOVE. THE SAME “MISTAKES OR DISCREPANCIES": AS YOU CALL THEM, EXIST IN EACH OF THE TRANSLATIONS THAT I LOOKED AT. IT IS NOT A KING JAMES PROBLEM, IT IS A CCCHHHRRRIIISSS PROBLEM!

I have checked the KJV against the ASV, NIV and other Bible versions. Guess what? They all agree with the KJV. There are no “MISTAKES” between these different versions. The mistake rests in the eyes and understanding of the beholder. Like I posted previously:

First ccchhhrrriiiss, instead of approaching Bible scripture with suspicion, looking for any “discrepancy”, instead of approaching Scripture as a “textural critic”---instead, approach the Bible as God’s Spirit breathed Word, in prayer, and in reverence and in fear. [/color][/b]

What is the Book of First Kings all about?

The first half of First kings traces the life of Solomon. Under his leadership Israel rises to the peak of her size and glory. Solomon’s great accomplishments, including the unsurpassed splendor of the temple which he constructs in Jerusalem, bring him worldwide fame and respect. However, Solomon’s zeal for God diminishes in his later years as pagan wives turn his heart away from worship in th temple of God. As a result, the King with the divided heart leaves behind a divided kingdom. For the next century, the Book of Kings traces the twin histories of two sets of kings and two nations of disobedient people who are growing indifferent to God’s prophets and precepts.

Like the two books of Samuel, the two book of Kings were originally one in the Hebrew Bible. The original title was Melechim, “Kings,” taken from the first word in 1:1, Vehamelech, “Now king.”

The time of First Kings

The Book of Kings was written to the remaining kingdom of Judah before its Babylonian exile. The majority was compiled by a contemporary of Jeremiah, if not by Jeremiah himself (c. 646-570 B.B.) It is a record of the Babylonian captivity of Israel (722 B.C.) and the Babylonian Captivity of Judah (586 B.C.). first Kings covers the 120 years from the beginning of Solomon’s reign in 971 B.C. through Ahaziah’s reign ending in 851 B.C. The Key date is 931 B.C., the year the kingdom is divided into the northern nation of Israel and the southern nation of Judah.


The Books of Chronicles (both of them) cover the same period in Jewish history described in Second Sameuel through Second Kings, but the perspective is different. These books are no mere repetition of the same material, but rather form a divine editorial on the history of God’s people. While Second Samuel and First and Second Kings give a political history of Israel and Judah, First and Second Chronicles present a religious history of the Davidic dynasty of Judah. The former are written from a prophetic and moral viewpoint, and the latter from a priestly and spiritual perspective. The Book of First Chronicles begins with the royal line of David and then traces the spiritual significance of David’s righteous reign. The 1st and 2nd Chronicles were originally one continuous work in the Hebrew. The title was Dibere Hayyamin, mening “The Word [accounts, events] of Days.” The equivalent meaning today would be “The Events of the Times.” The time of 1st Chronicles: The genealogies in Chapters 1-9 cover the time of Adam to David, and chapter 10-29 focus on the 33 years of David’s rule over the United Kingdoms of Israel and Judah (1004-971 BC). However, the genealogies extend to about 500 B.C., as seen in the mention of Zerrullalel, grandson of King Jeconiah, who leads the first return of the Jews from exile in 538 B.C., and also Zerubbabel’s two grandsons Pelatiah and Jesaiah (3:21).

The time of 2nd Chronicles is covered as follows: Chapters 1-9 cover the forty years form 971 B.C. to 931 B.C., and chapters 10-36 cover the 494 years from 931 B.B. Jeremiah’s prediction of a seventy-year captivity in Babylon (36:21; Jer 29:10) is fulfilled in two ways: 1) a politial captivity in which Jerusalem is overcome from 605 B.C. to 536 B.C., and (2) a religious captivity involving the destruction of the temple in 586 B.B. and the completion of the new temple in 515 B.C.


[b][color=660000]Now, with this understanding, we can see why they don’t match 100%. They are not authored by God, through the power of the Holy Ghost to satisfy an ACCOUNTANT. They are meant to present religious history, a prophetic and moral viewpoint (from a priestly and spiritual perspective), and to bring believers closer to Jesus Christ through the power of His Word and the Holy Spirit.
[/color][/b]

[b][color=0000CC]ccchhhrrriiisss, here is the analysis, prepared just for you:

II Samuel 24:24 and KJV
24. And the king said unto Araunah, Nay; but I will surely buy it of thee at a price: neither will I offer burnt offerings unto the Lord my God of that which doth cost me nothing. So David bought the threshingfloor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.
[b]ASV[/b]
24. And the king said unto Araunah, Nay; but I will verily buy it of thee at a price. Neither will I offer burnt-offerings unto Jehovah my God which cost me nothing. So David bought the threshing-floor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.

I Chronicles 21:22-25? KJV
22. Then David said to Ornan, Grant me the place of this threshingfloor, that I may build an altar therein unto the Lord: thou shalt grant it me for the full price: that the plague may be stayed from the people. 23. And Ornan said unto David, Take it to thee, and let my lord the king do that which is good in his eyes: lo, I give thee the oxen also for burnt offerings, and the threshing instruments for wood, and the wheat for the meat offering; I give it all. 24. And king David said to Ornan, Nay; but I will verily buy it for the full price: for I will not take that which is thine for the Lord, nor offer burnt offerings without cost. 25. So David gave to Ornan for the place six hundred shekels of gold by weight.
[b]ASV[/b]
22. Then David said to Ornan, Give me the place of this threshing-floor, that I may build thereon an altar unto Jehovah: for the full price shalt thou give it me, that the plague may be stayed from the people. 23. And Ornan said unto David, Take it to thee, and let my lord the king do that which is good in his eyes: lo, I give thee the oxen for burnt-offerings, and the threshing instruments for wood, and the wheat for the meal-offering; I give it all.
24. And king David said to Ornan, Nay; but I will verily buy it for the full price: for I will not take that which is thine for Jehovah, nor offer a burnt-offering without cost.
25. So David gave to Ornan for the place six hundred shekels of gold by weight.

I Kings 4:26 and KJV
26. And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
[b]ASV[/b]
26. And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

II Chronicles 9:25?KJV
25. And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
[b]ASV[/b]
25. And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen, that he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.


[b]I Kings 5:16 and KJV [/b]
16. Beside the chief of Solomon's officers which were over the work, three thousand and three hundred, which ruled over the people that wrought in the work.
[b]ASV[/b]
16. besides Solomon's chief officers that were over the work, three thousand and three hundred, who bare rule over the people that wrought in the work.


[b]II Chronicles 2:2? KJV[/b]
2. And Solomon told out threescore and ten thousand men to bear burdens, and fourscore thousand to hew in the mountain, and three thousand and six hundred to oversee them.
[b]ASV[/b]
2. And Solomon counted out threescore and ten thousand men to bear burdens, and fourscore thousand men that were hewers in the mountains, and three thousand and six hundred to oversee them.


[b]I Kings 7:15-22 and KJV[/b]
15. For he cast two pillars of brass, of eighteen cubits high apiece: and a line of twelve cubits did compass either of them about. 16. And he made two chapiters of molten brass, to set upon the tops of the pillars: the height of the one chapiter was five cubits, and the height of the other chapiter was five cubits: 17. And nets of checker work, and wreaths of chain work, for the chapiters which were upon the top of the pillars; seven for the one chapiter, and seven for the other chapiter.
18. And he made the pillars, and two rows round about upon the one network, to cover the chapiters that were upon the top, with pomegranates: and so did he for the other chapiter. 19. And the chapiters that were upon the top of the pillars were of lily work in the porch, four cubits. 20. And the chapiters upon the two pillars had pomegranates also above, over against the belly which was by the network: and the pomegranates were two hundred in rows round about upon the other chapiter. 21. And he set up the pillars in the porch of the temple: and he set up the right pillar, and called the name thereof Jachin: and he set up the left pillar, and called the name thereof Boaz. 22. And upon the top of the pillars was lily work: so was the work of the pillars finished.
[b]ASV[/b]
15. For he fashioned the two pillars of brass, eighteen cubits high apiece: and a line of twelve cubits compassed either of them about. 16. And he made two capitals of molten brass, to set upon the tops of the pillars: the height of the one capital was five cubits, and the height of the other capital was five cubits. 17. There were nets of checker-work, and wreaths of chain-work, for the capitals which were upon the top of the pillars; seven for the one capital, and seven for the other capital. 18. So he made the pillars; and there were two rows round about upon the one network, to cover the capitals that were upon the top of the pillars: and so did he for the other capital.
19. And the capitals that were upon the top of the pillars in the porch were of lily-work, four cubits. 20. And there were capitals above also upon the two pillars, close by the belly which was beside the network: and the pomegranates were two hundred, in rows round about upon the other capital. 21. And he set up the pillars at the porch of the temple: and he set up the right pillar, and called the name thereof Jachin; and he set up the left pillar, and called the name thereof Boaz.
22. And upon the top of the pillars was lily-work: so was the work of the pillars finished.

[b]II Chronicles 3:15-17? KJV[/b]
15. Also he made before the house two pillars of thirty and five cubits high, and the chapiter that was on the top of each of them was five cubits.
16. And he made chains, as in the oracle, and put them on the heads of the pillars; and made an hundred pomegranates, and put them on the chains.
17. And he reared up the pillars before the temple, one on the right hand, and the other on the left; and called the name of that on the right hand Jachin, and the name of that on the left Boaz.
[b]ASV[/b]
15. Also he made before the house two pillars of thirty and five cubits high, and the capital that was on the top of each of them was five cubits. 16. And he made chains in the oracle, and put them on the tops of the pillars; and he made a hundred pomegranates, and put them on the chains. 17. And he set up the pillars before the temple, one on the right hand, and the other on the left; and called the name of that on the right hand Jachin, and the name of that on the left Boaz.


I Kings 7:26 and KJV
26. And it was an hand breadth thick, and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies: it contained two thousand baths.
[b]ASV[/b]
26. And it was a handbreadth thick: and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, like the flower of a lily: it held two thousand baths.

II Chronicles 4:5? KJV
5. And the thickness of it was an handbreadth, and the brim of it like the work of the brim of a cup, with flowers of lilies; and it received and held three thousand baths.
[b]ASV[/b]
5. And it was a handbreadth thick; and the brim thereof was wrought like the brim of a cup, like the flower of a lily: it received and held three thousand baths.


I Kings 16:6-8 and KJV
6. The nethermost chamber was five cubits broad, and the middle was six cubits broad, and the third was seven cubits broad: for without in the wall of the house he made narrowed rests round about, that the beams should not be fastened in the walls of the house. 7. And the house, when it was in building, was built of stone made ready before it was brought thither: so that there was neither hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron heard in the house, while it was in building. 8. The door for the middle chamber was in the right side of the house: and they went up with winding stairs into the middle chamber, and out of the middle into the third.
[b]ASV[/b]
6. The nethermost story was five cubits broad, and the middle was six cubits broad, and the third was seven cubits broad; for on the outside he made offsets in the wall of the house round about, that the beams should not have hold in the walls of the house.
7. And the house, when it was in building, was built of stone made ready at the quarry; and there was neither hammer nor axe nor any tool of iron heard in the house, while it was in building.
8. The door for the middle side-chambers was in the right side of the house: and they went up by winding stairs into the middle story, and out of the middle into the third.

II Chronicles 16:1? KJV
1.In the six and thirtieth year of the reign of Asa Baasha king of Israel came up against Judah, and built Ramah, to the intent that he might let none go out or come in to Asa king of Judah.
[b]ASV[/b]
1. In the six and thirtieth year of the reign of Asa Baasha king of Israel came up against Judah, and built Ramah, to the intent that he might let none go out or come in to Asa king of Judah.

II Kings 8:25-26 and KJV
25. In the twelfth year of Joram the son of Ahab king of Israel did Ahaziah the son of Jehoram king of Judah begin to reign.
26. Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.
[b]ASV[/b]
25. In the twelfth year of Joram the son of Ahab king of Israel did Ahaziah the son of Jehoram king of Judah begin to reign.
26. Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah the daughter of Omri king of Israel.

II Chronicles 22:2?
2. Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.
[b]ASV[/b]
2. Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem: and his mother's name was Athaliah the daughter of Omri [/color][/b]

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


[b][color=660000]Walter concludes:

Well ccchhhrrriiisss, in conclusion, it appears that your references posted here as to all of the “errors in the King James Bible” did not come from Bruce Metzger (like I thought before-As much as I disagree with Metzger, he would never post anything like you have posted here), [/color][/b][u][b][color=0033FF]but from another website altogether that rejects the entire Bible! [/color][/b][/u]

[b]Sincerely,

Walter [/b]

 2008/11/21 23:26
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4526


 Re:

Waltern...

I didn't say that these errors were confined to the KJV. In fact, I admitted that these errors are found in other versions too. The problem that these errors create is in your insistence that the KJV is "perfect" and "preserved" -- down to "the last dot and tittle." There are errors in it. Yet it is astounding that you create arguments to defend the errors!

Nothing that you have written substantiates the fact that these are errors. Your premise seems based upon a notion that [i]the KJV can't possibly be wrong...so there must be another explanation[/i]. Is this correct? In your eyes, these errors are not a KJV problem but a "ccchhhrrriiisss problem."

You use so much scrutiny toward other versions. Yet when that same sort of scrutiny is applied to a version that you deem entirely "perfect" -- you seem to lose that ability to apply scrutiny. You question the backgrounds and motives of the NIV translators. Yet the translator of the TR (a single, Dutch Roman Catholic humanist named Erasmus) and the translators of the KJV (including those who held to "high church" heresies, like the doctrines of "adoration" and the "eucharist") get a free ride. You point out what you think are "mistakes" in the NIV (mostly because they differ from the KJV), yet you create arguments to defend apparent errors in the KJV. You even deny the notion that the Apocrypha was included in the KJV (and was the first section translated) -- but then seemingly defend its inclusion as if the translating committee must have been led by God to include it!

Brother, look at the verses about the amount of money that David paid for the threshing floor. How do you explain that seeming error? I fear that you are create human arguments to defend a premise, rather than using real history and facts to make a proper defense. You are making presumptuous claims to defend these errors with no fact to tie your defense to the verse itself.

Easter, brother? The word is PASSOVER. It has NEVER been translated as "Easter" -- except in the KJV (and versions borrowed from it). It would be nice to actually read the footnotes from the KJV translators about this passage. Alas -- they were forbidden to include those footnotes in the final product! Yet it smells like a Roman holiday was accidentally snuck into the text of Acts 12:4 by an erring translator.

Brother, I was thinking about bringing a list of these...but I have a feeling that you would simply continue to use the same sort of arguments for it. It seems that the bottom line for you is the belief that the KJV must be right to the last "dot and tittle" -- and any error must have an explanation. There can be no reasoning with such an argument, because the premise itself (in my view) is flawed.

Don't get me wrong: The KJV is a good translation. But is it perfect down to the last "dot and tittle?" NOT EVEN THE KJV TRANSLATORS FELT THIS WAY! It is as if you must know something that they didn't know or believe.

Walter, you spend a lot of time here defending your view that the KJV is the perfect and preserved Word of God. I don't mind that you have such an opinion, but not at the expense of truth...or public contempt for any other opinion.

Can I ask you a question?

Are there any other versions of the Bible that you think fit into your "perfect and preserved down to the last dot and tittle" argument? Any?

*EDIT*

Quote:
Now, with this understanding, we can see why they don’t match 100%. They are not authored by God, through the power of the Holy Ghost to satisfy an ACCOUNTANT. They are meant to present religious history, a prophetic and moral viewpoint (from a priestly and spiritual perspective), and to bring believers closer to Jesus Christ through the power of His Word and the Holy Spirit.

So you don't believe that the Book of Chronicles is inspired? Or is it Kings? Both? It seems like you are admitting that there are errors in one or the other. So correct me if I am wrong, but you are simply saying that one is inspired and the other is not?


_________________
Christopher

 2008/11/22 1:51Profile
HomeFree89
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana

 Re:

I'm just reading through this thread, so sorry if this has been covered.

Quote:
My challenge to you still stands. Prove to me, through scripture why the King James is wrong.



Would you prove to us by using the Bible, that the KJV is the only valid version? I know, I know, the Scriptures are inspired by God, etc. but that doesn't prove that it's only the KJV.

BTW, since we're talking about the Scriptures being inspired, did you know that "inspiration" wasn't the best translation choice in the KJV?


_________________
Jordan

 2008/11/22 12:08Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy