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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What the Early Christians Believed About the FREE WILL & PREDESTINATION

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Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797


I was just making the point that the Bible shows the doctrines of grace to be true. I need not the early church fathers to have fully developed all aspects of doctrine and theology for it to be accepted

I would disagree that the Bible shows "the doctrines of grace" as taught by Calvinism. It shows doctrines of grace of a different kind.

I also don't need the early church to back my beliefs, but this thread IS about the early church and what they believed. I came to my beliefs before reading any of the early church's writings.

I believe there still may be some erroneous understandings held by some people on this thread as to what reformed folks believe about “free will”.

That may be... but the converse might be true too. :-)


 2008/11/21 15:08Profile

Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991


if we should interpret this word death in different ways, that the same word means different things, it might be true.... but i see a dangerous thing here, or it may develop to one.

First, one would need someone to teach you where and what words mean what they say and what words do not mean what they say. -And in what verses ect.

second, i think this is a case where we conform the bible after our doctrines instead of the other way.

if it is a right way of reading and understanding in this way, how can we be sure the word love really means love in another verse?

or predestined or whatever?

i think we should be careful doing this to the word.

some have a problem with predestined and say it dont mean that, i personally dont. Some other have a problem where the bible says all men and try work something out so that all dont really mean all. For me to use this way is a attempt to twist scripture to fit my doctrine, when it rather should be the other way around.


 2008/11/25 10:58Profile

Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA


The doctrines of grace (Calvinism, Reformed…) cannot be dismissed or proven wrong simply on the basis of claiming they have redefined, or attempted to redefine, certain words.

Man has sought to justify his views on everything under the sun from the Bible whether it concerned drinking, adultery, traditions or even doctrines of men. This is done in many ways, one of which you have noted. Many people go to the Bible simply to justify a practice or doctrine they already have. Their purpose is not to learn the truth. They do not go there to learn from God. (I am not accusing you or anyone else of this…just making note of it in general)

But for me the doctrines of grace are on every page, not caught up in a few simple passages that can be easily explained away. I see them in creation. I see them in the way God has dealt with His people from the beginning of time. I see them spread throughout the Bible and spanning the entirety of Christian history. Pointing out a few words that appear to be “deal breakers” or noting a time in history past where they were not taught or written about to the extent they are today makes no progress in attempting to prove them false.

Grace and peace


 2008/11/25 14:34Profile

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