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KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: what r peoples views on spiritual warfare

Here is a brief article I wrote on spiritual warfare a couple years ago:


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In our life, we will encounter many spiritual walls. These walls range from a wide variety of things, be it addictions, sins, or trying situations. They represent something that is in our way, and hinders us from moving forward in our walk. But, how can we truly tear down these walls?

It is not uncommon for you to hear folks in church or "deliverance ministries" have cute little pet phrases in their prayers to say something along the lines of "I tear down this wall in the name of Jesus. I come against the spirit of poverty and rebuke it, and set John Doe free from this awful bondage which is entangling them, in the name of Jesus, be free!" The problem with this is, while it might sound all good, it doesn't accomplish anything. There is nothing biblical to it at all. These individuals are not tearing down walls, nor are they coming against the spirit of poverty, nor are they setting John Doe free from bondage.

How do we tear down walls? How do we rebuke the "spirit of poverty"? How do we set John Doe free from bondage? We do not do so in fancy, worthless, repetitious, magical phrases. Saying "I tear down this wall..." does not tear down any wall. Let's take a look at a word which was given to the prophet Jeremiah:

Then the LORD stretched out His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD said to me, "Behold, I have put My words in your mouth. "See, I have appointed you this day over the nations and over the kingdoms, To pluck up and to break down, To destroy and to overthrow, To build and to plant."

Jeremiah 1:9-10

In all the ministry of Jeremiah, how did he go about plucking, breaking down, destroying, overthrowing, building, and planting? He did not do so by the previously mentioned methods, rather, throughout the ministry of Jeremiah he tore down walls by confronting them. By exposing them. By speaking the truth of the matter, he attacked the walls of idolatry, pride, and forsaking the widows, orphans, and poor. He didn't just acknowledge their existance and pray for them to go away, instead he gave an assault against the walls, and called people to repentance. He spoke the oracles of God, and coming judgments should people not turn their ways.

Again, learn from another biblical example. Learn from an example Christ gave us. When the disciples were out on a boat, and there was an awful storm that made the disciples very nervous and fearful of their lives. Christ did not stand up and say "I rebuke this wind that is causing distress", rather, Christ did as Mark 4:39 says, "And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, 'Peace, be still'. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm." How did Christ rebuke the situation? He never once says "I rebuke you...", rather, He says "Peace, be still."

Again, learn from Christ. How did Christ set the captives free? How did he break the chains that entagled us and kept us from God? He did not do so by simply praying about it. Rather, He took up His cross and died, and through the power of God was resurrected. By this act He has given us the ability to come to God. By this act He has set us free from those chains that bind. By this act, He set the captives free. He did not simply say "I rebuke you satan", rather, He rebuked satan by example!

One thing that is sad in today's church is how little we understand rebuking. Never once in the scriptures is the phrase, "I rebuke...", instead, we see proper rebuking. To properly rebuke something, you show and teach the correct way. You confront the issue and address it. You can say "I rebuke" all day, and will never get anything accomplished. To properly rebuke, you must show correction. How sad it is that we don't understand rebuking, yet the pharisees did! (Luke 19:39)

To rebuke the spirit of poverty, you don't sit there and claim that John Doe is a child of God, and not to touch his life. Rather, to rebuke the spirit of poverty, you give to the person in need! To come against a spirit of fear, you act in boldness! To tear down a wall of sin, stop sinning!

In this message, today by the Spirit of God I have come against the spirit of poverty. Today I have come against the spirit of fear. Today, I have come against the seducing spirit. Today, I have broken chains and set people free. Today I have come against, and defeated more of hell's angels, and torn down more walls, than christianity has for the past 2000 years with their statements of "I bind...I rebuke...I come against...I tear down..."!


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Jimmy H

 2004/7/18 9:28Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

i find not that we should go witch hunting , but that the occult realm satanist witches all them have a far greater understanding of the spirit & the spiritual realm?



Their understanding is an absolute perversion. The devil is a liar, and it is impossible for them to actually have understanding regarding the spiritual realm. If they truly understood it, they would first and foremost see Christ as high and lifted up, above all principalities and powers, and wicked forces in high places.


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Jimmy H

 2004/7/18 12:49Profile
KingJimmy
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 Re:

Regarding generational curses: he whom the Son has set free is free indeed.

No room for generational curses.


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Jimmy H

 2004/7/18 12:50Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Generational Curses would never have found a teaching in the church had people only read this chapter from Ezekiel 18



Hi Jeremy
I think we are very close in our understanding on this one. What do you think about this? This will be very tightly reasoned and I do encourage you and others to ‘test it to death’. I have nothing to lose but my errors, if errors there are.

The ‘generational curse’ idea is heavily dependent upon Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (Exo 20:4-6 KJV) I note some important aspects of this but namely that this is one the commandments specifically given to the people of the Sinai Covenant. It includes the phrase ‘Jehovah, thy God’. God entered into a ‘marriage covenant’ with Israel at Sinai as recorded earlier than your verses;Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine. (Eze 16:8 KJV) From that time Israel’s idolatry was condemned as ‘adultery’; I don’t think it is ever called that among the Gentile nations. The threats of Exodus 20 above, were specifically against the people of the covenant, who had sinned against ‘Jehovah, their God’. This four generation curse is never applied to any Gentile nations, as far as I am aware. There nations who were banned from ‘joining’ Israel, but I don’t recall this kind of language being used against them.

I am suggesting that Israel comes under special conditions. I think Amos has a relevant comment too; Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. Can two walk together, except they be agreed? (Amo 3:1-3 KJV) This passage indicates that the people of the Sinai Covenant (whom God brought up from the land of Egypt) have not only special privileges but special responsibilities too; I will punish you for all your sins. This matches the severity of the generational curses threatened against Israel in Ex 20. But, this covenant ended with the coming of the Seed according to Galatians. The promises and the threats are no longer valid currency; their time is over.

I think this is the significance of your Ezekiel references; they have their echo in Jeremiah. The significance is that these prophets are the heralds of the New Covenant.
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. (Eze 36:25-28 KJV)
Note the specific reference to idolatry which was the specific sin in view in Exodus 20.

In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (Jer 31:29-32 KJV)
Note the reference here to Jehovah the husband whose ‘wife’ has broken the covenant; ie become adulterous. It is Jeremiah who identifies the incurable condition of the covenant people; The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron, and with the point of a diamond: it is graven upon the table of their heart, and upon the horns of your altars; Whilst their children remember their altars and their groves by the green trees upon the high hills. (Jer 17:1-2 KJV) Jer 17 contains the famous verse 9 the heart is deceitful about all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? That was their incurable condition, literally, the heart is ‘Jacob’ (crooked) and ‘incurable’. Israel had been Israel in name only, in reality she had remained ‘Jacob’. Jeremiah’s answer to this is a New Covenant; the Old One is beyond repair.

But the New Covenant, is not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers… That was the covenant that had the generational curses. The New Covenant replaces the Old; they cannot co-exist. Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. (Heb 10:9 KJV). The covnenant which contained Israel’s generational curses is no longer operative. Jeremiah and Ezekiel anticipated this in their revelations.

What about the Gentiles? Did generational curses operate upon them? I can see no evidence for it biblically, but even if they did surely the New Covenant would bring theirs to an end also.

What follows in the next couple of sentences is observation rather than revelation… I think I have seen evidence of generational curses or sins and their consequences but I have also seen people instantly cut off from them when they came into the reality of the New Covenant. We now come into the pastoral area. I think there are times when the powers of evil in lives have to be confronted so that men and women can be delivered. In other words, deliverance might have to precede access to the New Covenant. For me this would still fit into my biblical hypothesis; but I can see no way in which those who have been properly initiated into the New Covenant could then need ‘deliverance’ from generational curses.


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Ron Bailey

 2004/7/18 17:21Profile
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: praying against spiritual powers

so far we have concentrated on the specific issue of generational curses, but the other aspect of spiritual warfare is that of 'praying against spiritual powers'.

There are two main passages used in supportof this idea. The first being Daniel 10:10ff. In fact, this is the sole basis for ruling spirits being identified with specific geographical territories. This itself should cause us to exercise some caution in arriving at our theology. The other important point is that Daniel took no part at all in the 'spiritual warfare' and was completly ignorant of its existence until the battle was over. So much for human participation in this key passage.

The angel that withstood Daniel's messenger angel is called the 'prince of the kingdom of Persia'. In both testiments the word 'kingdom' pertains to rule rather than to territory. This angel, whoever he was, was not a territorial spirit he was an 'imperial spirit'. This has important implications in a New Testament context too; the New Testament has no interest at all in 'territories' but rather in 'nations' (ethnos). These are not nation-states, nor territories, but rather people groups.

The second most used passage is Eph 6:10ff. Some have described this as our call to such warfare. But this is not a call to battle but an explanation of the nature of the battle. For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. (Eph 6:12 ASV) This is Paul alerting the church to the fact of a continuing conflict. This is why we need to equip ourselves with God's armour for the task. The battle is in progree and we are in it whether we choose to be in it or not. However, we will fail in it, if we are not adequately protected and equipped. The whole armour of God is available so that we can stand.

The image is of the Roman sentinel who is standing guard. He is required to be properly equipped and to be vigilant. but notice the prepositions used here. 'the wrestling is against the enemy', 'the standing is against the enemy', but the praying of verse 18 is for the saints Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; (Eph 6:18 KJV)

Prayer is never 'against the enemy'. Prayer is the soul drawing near to God; it is always God-orientated and its object is, in this instance, 'for the saints'. This is a much healthier focus for our prayer life.

I must add a further comment in the cause of balance. I am writing here of the biblical revelation. I also believe in the discerning of spirits. There may well be occasions when we are given revelation of particular spirit activity. In such a case our recourse is to take authority in the realm where God has given revelation and to set the captive free. In passing we might note that the early Church, in its evangilism, never prayed for people to be healed; they just healed them. And they never prayed for people to be delivered; they just delivered them.

However, in the plain biblical revelation which must be our base for these things, the notion of spiritual warfare, as popularly understood, has no basis in scripture.


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Ron Bailey

 2004/7/19 5:47Profile
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Joined: 2004/7/3
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 Re:

Following the resurrection of Jesus and His return to heaven, these demonic principalities and powers have continued their warfare against those who are His followers (Rom. 8:38–39; Eph. 6:12). Yet Satan and his allies will finally be overthrown by God. After Christ returns, the devil and his angels will be defeated and thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone (Matt. 25:41; Rev. 20:10). This is a doom with which demons are quite familiar (Matt. 8:29). God will achieve the ultimate victory in this conflict, which has been going on since the beginning of time.
1. The territory, jurisdiction, sovereignty, rank, or estate of a prince.
2. princedoms Christianity. See principality.
Principality \Prin`ci*pal"i*ty\, n.; pl. Principalities. [L. principalitas pre["e]minence, excellence: cf. F. principalit['e], principaut['e]. See Principal.] 1. Sovereignty; supreme power; hence, superiority; predominance; high, or the highest, station. --Sir P. Sidney.
1. A territory ruled by a prince or princess or from which such a title is derived. 2. The position, authority, or jurisdiction of a prince or princess; sovereignty. 3. principalities Christianity. The seventh of the nine orders of angels in medieval angelology. Also called princedoms.
It says we war not against flesh & blood ,BUT against, the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places ive been looking at buts in the bible its like a therefore where ever u see 1 so take a notice of what it says next.
the dictionary says about but, in consideration; but, however, yet, still, notwithstanding; nevertheless, nathless, none the less; although, though; albeit, howbeit; at all events, at any rate; be that as it may, for all that, even so, on the other, hand, at the same time, however that may be; after all is said and done.
This is our fight throught the delegated authority of jesus Christ it doesn’t say he fights it says our fight.
Yes we fight with the word of God, prayer, fasting, worship. I agree we can use the gift of discernment to pray against the enemy wherever God wants us to.
Our armour is not just defensive but offensive aswel,
Did jesus wait for the devil no he was lead by the spirit into a encounter where he overcame him with the word.
I don’t know how this lines up with peoples views but for 6 years now when I pray I see into the spirtual realm, am I saying im like Elijah no not at all,though it says his servant was scared so he asked God to open his eyes to the spiritual realm where he saw some of the host of heaven.
I would say elijah had had more encounters like that as it seems to be of a natural reaction he wasn’t put off by the army he knew the God that answered by fire looked after him. Jeus also walked & saw in the spirit
Jesus replied, “I assure you, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing
also when he talks of Nathaniel?
He was on earth so he had to have been seeing in the spirit what was going on?
What about the book of acts angels were a natural occurance?
Why do we need angels if Christ has done all?
This is what im saying there are things we just don’t know or things that aren’t in the bible that could well be right.


Quote:
Their understanding is an absolute perversion. The devil is a liar, and it is impossible for them to actually have understanding regarding the spiritual realm. If they truly understood it, they would first and foremost see Christ as high and lifted up, above all principalities and powers, and wicked forces in high places.


we all know the devil is defeated but does that stop him form still fighting?
can i ask have you ever encountered or know what these people get up to?
they have no problem going on 40 day fasts to see & recieve demonic powers of to stop the work of christ,
just as a full on christian some1 totally sold out for him gives all so do generational satanists & others who know what the deal is but dont care they love darkness they know christ is LORD but wont sevre him, as far as it being ignorant dont forget the devil was in heaven he knows some of the ways of God he isnt ignorant nor should we be of our enemys.
i ask have you or do u know much about this kingjimmy?
as the saying goes "a man with an argument will never beat a person with an experiance"
1 reason posted this ways to find others opinions on this subject which is lenghty as i do have lts of stuff happen & has happened & are trying to find the balance in it.
up until 6 months ago i didnt believe in the whole spiritual warfare in that we battle with the authority of jesus christ but i believe God smashed my ideas & has replaced them.

the other thing is i agree we do find that great men& women of God of old just prayed i dont know how or what they knew or did with or concerning this subject i dont know.
i believe that as this world gets darker we need to know the authority & the power of the spirit.
another question does any1 have a opinion on spiritual senses such as sight,smell eg


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scot

 2004/7/22 11:15Profile
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Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
This is what im saying there are things we just don’t know or things that aren’t in the bible that could well be right.


Indeed there are, but we can't build doctrines on speculations. We must build doctrines on sciptural revelation.

All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17 MKJV)


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Ron Bailey

 2004/7/22 11:40Profile
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Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Re:

I work at a Christian bookstore in NYC and get the chance to see much of the latest titles that come into the store. There is so much "new revelation" on Satan and spiritual warfare in the church. Beloved, we have defeated in by the blood of the Lamb, the word of our testimony, and not loving our lives to the point of death. It is walking in our rightful position in Jesus & keeping a firm grasp on the New Covenant we have with Him that keeps us on guard from the enemy. 10 step nothing. 1 step = ABIDE IN CHRIST!

 2004/7/23 21:54Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

well you are right in that you are not under such powers but you are not immune from attack. The bible says no waepon formed against you shall prosper. this means that there wille be things designed to destroy you and they will be used against you and work to some extent but they will not be victorious over you. for us to think that we are above being attacked by such powers is to be careless. If even the angels were fooled by the devil, what more of us?

To resist the devil would mean knowing of what he is trying to do. If you have no idea of what he is trying to mess up in your life, how can you defend yourself against it? We are bound or subject to curses as long as we allow ourselves to be once we are aware of them. At some point we have to draw the line in the sand.

Going back to your generational weaknesses, have you done anything about them?(if I may ask) do they affect you in any way? The fact is that there are some things that we do little about because we don't perceive them as needing spiritual intervention and as a result we try different things and nothing works. Then also there may be spirits at work in your life and my life that we are not aware of (we see them as things we just do or have always done) and God may use someone to whom He reveals this to to deal with it. to you what that lady did may have been unnecessary but in God there are no coincidences and nothing is without purpose whether that purpose is apparant or not is another story. In GOd's eyes, what that lady did for you was necessary, it may have been the breaking of some age-old curse you knew nothing of or it may have been to get you to dig more deeply into this whole subject.


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Farai Bamu

 2004/8/10 10:59Profile
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

You said He meaning that one particular person right? What if his son has not sought that same freedom? is He automatically exempt because his father has been freed?


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Farai Bamu

 2004/8/10 11:04Profile





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