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formidable
Member



Joined: 2004/7/3
Posts: 77
Perth, Australia

 what r peoples views on spiritual warfare

i actually put this in the lounge forum but thought it might be better situated in here
i was interested in peoples views on spiritual warfare?
also the spiritual realm.
what do people know? i find that a lot of christians r ignorant of the spiritual realm or scared of it,
we r spiritual people



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scot

 2004/7/17 10:49Profile
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re: what r peoples views on spiritual warfare

It's tricky, sorting out the hype from the real stuff.

A recent (yesterday) experience shows my view: we were preaching down in Atlanta on a street corner and a couple came to talk with us, the husband wasn't saved but was very interested in and open to Christianity, and the wife was very passionate about serving the Lord (she was witnessing rather fervently to some of the passersby). Anyway, after talking to her for a few seconds she took my hand and started speaking in tongues, and told me (in English) that there was a hex (or hexes, I forget exactly) on me and was breaking it "in the mighty name of Jesus," and that there were generational curses on me and was breaking it the same way.

Now, I believe in tongues and all that, have noticed the generational weaknesses myself (wouldn't call them curses, but I see why one might see it that way), and it wouldn't terribly surprise me if someone or something had put a hex on me (whatever those are, not much Biblical definition to go on that I know of)... but I don't believe Christians are ever bound by any kind of "curse,"

James 4
7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

It doesn't require anything complicated, just resist (with the name of Jesus), and even the devil himself must flee. When I'm tempted (even if it might just be the flesh) I almost always resist the devil in this way, and often it does put an end to the tempting thought or mental image or whatever.

My point is, sure, there were definately generational issues afoot, and I wouldn't be shocked if someone had put hexes on me (whatever those are), but as a Christian I'm not under such powers, the One who is in me is greater than the one who is in the world. I appreciated the thought of what that woman did, but it seems to me quite unnecessary.

 2004/7/17 13:01Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. (Isa 54:17 KJV)


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Ron Bailey

 2004/7/17 14:56Profile
All2and4Him
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Joined: 2004/6/10
Posts: 39


 Re: The generational curse thing.

The whole generational curses, that is interesting. From what I have heard of it, the curses can come from God, to those who are not saved. The curse as they did in the old days, continues on for generations. I dont understand much about it, but churches that I respect ran into situations like that. I think also according to the generational curse doctrine, there is demonic curses as well involved. From what I have heard of those it is a sin habit that is passed through the generations. I have to do much study on this, and I dont have an opinion quite yet on it. I am not quick to write it off just because I dont understand how it lines up with scripture. Preconcieved notions sometimes get in the way of proper interpretation of scripture. I have so much to unravel right now, I am just sort of swamped with thinking about that.

The confusion can possibly occur since not everyone that says they are a christian is saved, they get saved and the curses are lifted as the Spirit enters them guiding them then in truth and righteousness. Many people dont know that someone has just gotten saved at that point though. They just think that person has just gone to a new level in their "walk".

All to and for Him

John


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John C. Kelly

 2004/7/17 17:13Profile
jeremyhulsey
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Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re:

Quote:
The whole generational curses, that is interesting. From what I have heard of it, the curses can come from God, to those who are not saved. The curse as they did in the old days, continues on for generations. I dont understand much about it, but churches that I respect ran into situations like that. I think also according to the generational curse doctrine, there is demonic curses as well involved. From what I have heard of those it is a sin habit that is passed through the generations. I have to do much study on this, and I dont have an opinion quite yet on it. I am not quick to write it off just because I dont understand how it lines up with scripture. Preconcieved notions sometimes get in the way of proper interpretation of scripture. I have so much to unravel right now, I am just sort of swamped with thinking about that.



Generational Curses would never have found a teaching in the church had people only read this chapter from Ezekiel 18:

Quote:
Eze 18:1 The Word of Jehovah came to me again, saying,

Eze 18:2 What is it to you that you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes and the teeth of the sons are dull?

Eze 18:3 As I live, says the Lord Jehovah, to you there is no longer any occasion to use this proverb in Israel.

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are Mine. As the soul of the father, also the soul of the son, they are Mine. The soul that sins, it shall die.

Eze 18:5 But a man that is just and does what is just and right,

Eze 18:6 and has not eaten on the mountains, nor has lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, nor has defiled his neighbor's wife, nor has come near a menstruating woman,

Eze 18:7 and has not ill-treated any man, but has given the debtor's pledge back to him, has robbed none by violence, has given his bread to the hungry and has covered the naked with a garment;

Eze 18:8 he has not given out on usury, nor has taken any increase, he has withdrawn his hand from iniquity, has done judgment between man and man,

Eze 18:9 has walked in My statutes, and has kept My judgments to deal truly, he is righteous, he shall surely live, says the Lord Jehovah.

Eze 18:10 And if he fathers a son who is violent, who sheds blood, and who does to a brother any of these;

Eze 18:11 even if he does do not any of these himself, but his son has, but has even eaten on the mountains, and has defiled his neighbor's wife;

Eze 18:12 has ill-treated the poor and needy; thieving, he stole; has not given back the pledge; and has lifted up his eyes to the idols; has committed abomination;

Eze 18:13 has loaned on usury; and has taken increase; shall he then live? He shall not live! He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be on him.

Eze 18:14 And, lo, if he fathers a son who sees all his father's sins which he has done, and fears, and does not do like him;

Eze 18:15 who has not eaten on the mountains; nor has lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel; has not defiled his neighbor's wife;

Eze 18:16 nor has ill-treated any man; has not withheld the pledge; nor has robbed by violence; but has given his bread to the hungry; and has covered the naked with clothes;

Eze 18:17 has withdrawn his hand from the poor; has not received usury nor increase; has done My judgments; has walked in My statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father; he shall surely live.

Eze 18:18 His father, because he extorted, robbed his brother by robbery, and did what is not good among his people; lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.

Eze 18:19 Yet you say, Why? Does not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son has done justice and right, has kept all My statutes, and has done them, he shall surely live.

Eze 18:20 The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, nor shall the father bear the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.

Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins which he has committed, and keep all My statutes, and do justice and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he has done, they shall not be mentioned to him; in his righteousness that he has done he shall live.

Eze 18:23 Do I actually delight in the death of the wicked? says the Lord Jehovah. Is it not that he should turn from his ways and live?

Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turns from his righteousness and does injustice, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked do, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be remembered; in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them he shall die.

Eze 18:25 Yet you say, The way of Jehovah is not fair. Hear now, O house of Israel: Is not My way fair? Are your ways not unfair?

Eze 18:26 When a righteous one turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and dies in them; for his iniquity that he has done, he shall die.

Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked turns away from his wickedness that he has committed and does that which is lawful and righteous, he shall save his soul alive.

Eze 18:28 Because he looks carefully, and turns away from all his sins that he has committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Eze 18:29 Yet says the house of Israel: The way of Jehovah is not fair. O house of Israel, are not My ways fair? Are not your ways unfair?

Eze 18:30 So I will judge you, O house of Israel, each one of you according to his ways, says the Lord Jehovah. Turn and be made to turn from all your sins; and iniquity shall not be your stumbling-block.

Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your sins by which you have sinned; and make you a new heart and a new spirit; for why will you die, O house of Israel?

Eze 18:32 For I have no delight in the death of him who dies, says the Lord Jehovah. Therefore turn and live.



It's obvious from this passage that we are not held responsible for the sins of our great great great grandfather who was a thief. Neither does it mean that we are destined to be a thief ourselves.

Finally Luke 11:21-22 says:

Quote:
When the strong man, fully armed, guards his dwelling, his goods are in peace. But when one stronger than he comes, he overcomes him. He takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and he distributes his arms.



This is talking about God binding the strongman, in this case, Satan and throwing him out. God is obviously stonger than Satan. But now let's reverse that--When the stron man(God), fully armed guards his dwelling, his goods are in peace. Can Satan fulfill the second part? In other words can a devil come in and bind the Holy Spirit who has taken up residence in a person? No. Generational curses don't line up with scripture.

In Christ,
Jeremy Hulsey


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2004/7/17 18:42Profile
rocklife
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Joined: 2004/4/1
Posts: 323
usa

 Re:

Keithlamothe, you're right that curses don't really have much on the righteous (righteous only by the blood of Jesus and loves Him wholeheartedly)

Proverbs 26:2 "Like a fluttering sparrow or a darting swallow, an undeserved curse does not come to rest."

Hulsey, thanks for the Scriptures, Ezekial is a great book to repeat and go over often (and Isaiah too).


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Jina

 2004/7/17 22:02Profile
formidable
Member



Joined: 2004/7/3
Posts: 77
Perth, Australia

 Re:

im not just talking on generational curses though i dont know really how they fit in a friend of mine was dedicated to satan by a family member 3 generations back so in some way there is a problem or a place for it gen curses?
i also mean we have been given authority by jesus christ to enforce all he has done that doesnt mean we just sit back & say the job is done. it is from christs triumph through the cross but we need to enforce that in our lives aswel in the spirit realm?
why do we need to put on armour?
does any1 have a view on that if all we need to do is resist why put on armour?
im all for balance in all things finding that between there is a demon behind every bush to they dont exist there is a balance.
the other thing is the Holy spirit lives in our spirit but our mind needs to be renewed by the word a demonic spirit exerts pressure on ur mind will emotions ur soul in other words it cant reside i agree but it can latch on to these areas?
i find not that we should go witch hunting , but that the occult realm satanist witches all them have a far greater understanding of the spirit & the spiritual realm?
has any1 had encounters with these types of people?
i think there is stuff we just dont know then there is stuff the spirit of God will show u,
also does any1 have a thought on the prince battle in daniel ?


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scot

 2004/7/18 1:20Profile
KeithLaMothe
Member



Joined: 2004/3/28
Posts: 354


 Re:

Thank you, Brother Jeremy, that was a very helpful chapter for this topic and also for the topic of congenital guilt. I had been wavering back towards the idea of congenital guilt from some passages I had encountered in the O.T. (including the proverb referred to in Ezekiel 18) but hadn't yet gotten to Ezekiel 18. I am no longer doing wavering thus.

 2004/7/18 1:38Profile
All2and4Him
Member



Joined: 2004/6/10
Posts: 39


 Re:

I am just going to put examining the idea of generational curses on hold for now, and maybe pick it up in about 5 years. I do think that many people get carried away with things like this though. I hate to see that happen.

John


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John C. Kelly

 2004/7/18 2:34Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: what r peoples views on spiritual warfare

To my knowledge, I find it extremely interesting that some of the greatest saints of prayer knew nothing of what is often taught today concerning spiritual warfare. If you read folks like E.M. Bounds, George Muller, Leonard Ravenhill, Samuel Chadwick, none of them in any of their books that talk on prayer never ever ever mention things such as generational curses, and praying things like "I bind the spirit of lust over the city of...." Yet these men were used mightily of God, and much more mightily than I have ever heard of men who pray such things or teach such things. Why? Because those things that are often taught as spiritual warfare have no foundation in the Scriptures whatsoever. That is why these men never taught it.

Those who teach such things today are hard pressed to prove what they teach with Scripture. Instead, they are just teaching their own personal "experiences." They are ultimately pragmatists, and not following the Scriptures. They are introducing doctrines to grab people because of a natural curiosity about something that many Christians have a weak knowledge of.

Men who truly know the power of prayer will know that these things, along with things such as "generational curses" are doctrines birthed in hell.


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Jimmy H

 2004/7/18 9:26Profile





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