| Poster | Thread | boG
Member
Joined: 2008/5/21
Posts: 349
Las Vegas, NV
| | Re: WHAT IS REAL REVIVAL? | | Quote:
What I am saying is that there is a big difference between having the "rain" of God's Spirit UPON you, and the "rain" or Anointing of God's Spirit IN you...doing a work IN you.
Well, that depends, I see Scriptures where God is working WITH the hearts and minds of men -- righteous and unrighteous alike.
However, this is distinctive from the Holy Spirit of God working IN us -- that is, the righteous redeemed in Christ.
As it is, there is no support, that I am aware of, in Scripture where the Spirit of God ever came UPON an ungodly man -- save for the purpose of regeneration.
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He is calling OUT a people for His name. The elect are truly "returning to Him" in this very hour.
I would have to disagree with this perspective. To "return" requires that we first were with Him and left Him. In terms of revival I think you may be seeing this narrowly.
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or continuing VIVAL to the elect
What about the "elect" who are not yet "vived"? Or, are the wicked (who shall be revealed as the elect) "vived" before they have faith?
"Revival" -- it begins with an awakening, this is a devotion to prayer and a commitment to growing in the grace and knowledge of God, within the church for the purpose of converting the lost and wicked men of this world to come to know Christ Jesus with a saving and perservering faith.
Thus to say it with your own words:
"He is calling OUT a people" -- and He is calling them out of the WORLD, not the church.
The church is already redeemed unto salvation (for those who perservere unto the end) the problem is there are many "babes" in the faith and not many "fathers." The idea of Revival thus focuses on raising up godly men to counter the Scripture which testifies,
[b]1 Corinthians 12
26.[/b] if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
For the effect that there shall be multiplied the fervent and effective prayers of the righteous and laborers who shall put their hands to the plow with all diligence and wisdom in the fear of God.
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The elect are truly "returning to Him" in this very hour. It is a gathering unto the true Revelation of Christ...hid from the denominational mixed multitudes.
Ok ... In one stroke you have just written off every denomination -- Joseph Smith Jr. did the same thing, you know; with the exact same reason, no less.
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Their idea of revival is part of the deception and false signs and wonders which will lead them to their destruction. They are being gathered into denominational "bundles" of false unity.
So, if I attend a denominational congregation: Is there any hope for me of being saved from this "bundle of false unity" which shall lead me to my destruction? Must I attend non-denominational only? Or must I attend your church to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
I agree, denominations are not inerrant or infallible. But the church is NOT denominations rather the church is IN denominations (do you realize this?) -- and to be fair and honest, as Paul says, "For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel," and likewise, they are not all the "church" who are in denominations.
[b]Be very careful you do not lump the sheep with the goats.[/b]
I would prefer to discuss this more tenderly with you, however, since you condition your statements as "prophetic utterances" (ie. "as taught by the Bible" or "thus saith the Lord," etc.) you force me, as well as our fellow brothers, to judge the prophecy ([b]1 Corinthians 14:29[/b]).
You believe you have received divine revelation and inerrant truth, as you present it, and you are hardening yourself against the accountability of your Christian brothers; such is the beginnings of strife, division, and offense -- whereby the love of many shall grow cold. That is blood-guiltiness and the condemnation of false prophets and false teachers whom the Lord shall not esteem in the day of Judgment -- "workers of lawlessness."
If you prophecy in the name of the Lord, then prophecy, and I pray every word be true to the glory of God our Father! Yet I will not relent from severity in this regard lest my brothers and sisters be offended: should they not heed the warnings of our Good Shepherd, [b]Jeremiah 23:21[/b], "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied." And, therefore, to study to show ourselves approved in the sight of God, rightly dividing the word of truth, and to test every spirit to see whether it is of God.
And if I must test every word with the harshest of criticisms -- as a refining fire, iron sharpening iron -- then I will be diligent for the sake of truth and peace among the brethren.
_________________
Jordan
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|  2008/10/31 1:50 | Profile |
| | Re: | |
Hosea 6:1-3 (KJV)
1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
For a time, in the sovereignty of God, His people were allowed and even led into Babylonian captivity (mixed multitudes of man-made church systems...NOW), but were promised to be freed from it's corrupting grip, and even now CALLED OUT "of her, My people".
I believe that the elect are called out of every man-made denominational system, and will walk with God in His pure Word...even if it means walking alone and having no "church facility" to go to.
It will come down to you either being controlled by the whole governmental system, including "registered" churches, or reject that "mark" and be free...trusting in God alone.
That's exactly what I'm doing. The time of the tares and the wheat "growing together" has come to an end! The separation is beginning. Why do you think I've been banned from about 6 forums?...for having intellectual debates and theological discussions?
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| | 2008/10/31 2:24 | | Miccah
Member
Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin
| | Re: | |
3rddaymsngr wrote:
Quote:
Why do you think I've been banned from about 6 forums?...for having intellectual debates and theological discussions?
My hope would be that you would be at any forum to glorify the Lord, not count how many times you get booted. Seriously, maybe it's just late, but this is foolishness.
_________________
Christiaan
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| | 2008/10/31 3:24 | Profile | boG
Member
Joined: 2008/5/21
Posts: 349
Las Vegas, NV
| | Re: WHAT IS REAL REVIVAL? | | Is it possible you are being removed from forums for conditioning your statements "thus saith the Lord"?
My friend, I have no problems with what you are saying, we can discuss such things intelligently; but if you claim to speak as the oracle of God, the discussion ends -- it then becomes either hear the word of the Lord or oppose the deceiving spirits.
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Jordan
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| | 2008/10/31 3:32 | Profile | crsschk
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Re: | | Quote:
Why do you think I've been banned from about 6 forums?...for having intellectual debates and theological discussions?
Because you are proud and haughty. As was mentioned, has it occured to you that maybe the problem is with you, yourself? You are about to make it #7 if you do not change your tune.
Read the following and take it to heart, before it is too late;
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=10733&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]Jonathan Edwards - Undiscerned Spiritual Pride[/url]
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Mike Balog
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| | 2008/10/31 9:21 | Profile |
| | Re: | | God is "singing a new song"...it call for a new "tune". Not all can hear it. He gives the hearing ear and the seeing eye to His elect in every age. The message and "present truth" in every age and move of His Spirit.
(Mind you, you do misinterpret the "boldness and certainty" with which we can speak. "Confidence" and KNOWING has often been regarded as arrogant.)
Thank God my goal isn't to stay in the favour of forum moderators, but to stay in God's favour and the flow of His Spirit. |
| | 2008/10/31 10:16 | | rbanks
Member
Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330
| | Re: | | 3rddaymsngr,iron sharpeneth iron, we are suppose to do justly, love mercy, and walk humble before our God.
We should welcome correction and should be challenged with the scriptures to study to show ourselves approved.
How do you stay in God's favor if you want listen to counsel. The bibles says in a multitude of counselors their is safety.
Thinking we know more than others and having an attitude that shuts us away from other brothers and sisters is not pleasing to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Pray,pray,pray, don't let the devil deceive you. It was his pride that brought him down! |
| | 2008/10/31 10:26 | Profile | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | Quote:
[u]That's exactly what I'm doing. The time of the tares and the wheat "growing together" has come to an end! The separation is beginning.[/u] Why do you think I've been banned from about 6 forums?...for having intellectual debates and theological discussions?
[color=000066]The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. [u]Let both grow together until the harvest[/u]: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.... and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and [u]the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.[/u] (Matthew 13)[/color]
The clear teaching of scripture is that the tares and the wheat will grow together until the end just as the sheep and the goats will live together until Christ sets them apart. We are not the angels. It is not our job to separate. Besides, it is an overly realized eschatology that brings this process into the present when God has clearly set it in the future.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2008/10/31 11:41 | Profile | boG
Member
Joined: 2008/5/21
Posts: 349
Las Vegas, NV
| | Re: Undiscerned Spiritual Pride | | I should wonder 3rddaymsngr, if you have even begun to test yourself?
The carnal man who seeks riches feasts himself on the prosperity gospel and is devoured in covetousness.
You are doing exactly the same thing with "spiritual riches." I have seen such a fervent desire for the Spirit of God to manifest Himself among His people that on many occassions I have been pained to see with my own eyes worshippers who are worshipping in spirit WITHOUT truth!
Prophecy this, prophecy that, everything is prophecy! There is no understanding! Everything is feeling and impulse and spontaneous flows of images in the mind! Let your imaginations be renewed by the Spirit, they say!
[b]Richard Baxter[/b], our wonderful Puritan brother rebukes us in his book [b]The Reformed Pastor[/b],
"So great a God, whose message we deliver, should be honoured by our delivery of it...Do not reason and conscience tell you, that if you dare venture on so high a work as this, you should spare no pains to be qualified for the performance of it? It is not now and then an idle snatch or taste of studies that will serve to make an able and sound divine. I know that laziness hath learned to allege the vanity of all our studies, and how entirely the Spirit must qualify us for, and assist us in our work; as if God commanded us the use of means, and then warranted us to neglect them; [b]as if it were his way to cause us to thrive in a course of idleness, and to bring us to knowledge by dreams when we are asleep, or to take us up into heaven, and show us his counsels, while we think of no such matter, but are idling away our time on earth![/b] O, that men should dare, by their laziness, to 'quench the Spirit,' and then pretend the Spirit for the doing of it!...God hath required us, that we be 'not slothful in business,' but 'fervent in spirit, serving the Lord.' Such we must provoke our hearers to be, and such we must be ourselves. O, therefore, brethren, lose no time! Study, and pray, and confer, and practise; for in these four ways your abilities must be increased. Take heed to yourselves, lest you are weak through your own negligence, and lest you mar the work of God by your weakness."
Just put Jesus' Name and Title to it and swallow it down -- "eat the meat and spit out the bones!" Something we have already discussed in these forums before as utter deception!
If I am going to be honest with the ministry of God I see among the people, personally, my most effective ministry is in the denominational churches. Not in "calling them out of Babylon (the denomination, as you say)" but in calling them unto holiness! In preaching the Gospel and establishing truth and soberness and self-control and perserverance and godliness and brother kindness and charity and seeking to find an outstanding knowledge of God among the people.
What you are calling us to do is to run away and isolate ourselves -- get out of the "bundles" and go ... to be alone, if necessary? -- flee to the caves?
The problem is not denominations -- the problem is holiness! You are preaching like someone who points out the fruit of sin without ever putting the axe to the root!
Quote:
God is "singing a new song"...it call for a new "tune". Not all can hear it. He gives the hearing ear and the seeing eye to His elect in every age. The message and "present truth" in every age and move of His Spirit.
Sounds like progressive revelation, yea, another thing we can thank Joseph Smith Jr. for making so popular.
_________________
Jordan
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| | 2008/10/31 14:30 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
boG wrote:
I should wonder 3rddaymsngr, if you have even begun to test yourself?
The carnal man who seeks riches feasts himself on the prosperity gospel and is devoured in covetousness.
You are doing exactly the same thing with "spiritual riches." I have seen such a fervent desire for the Spirit of God to manifest Himself among His people that on many occassions I have been pained to see with my own eyes worshippers who are worshipping in spirit WITHOUT truth!
Prophecy this, prophecy that, everything is prophecy! There is no understanding! Everything is feeling and impulse and spontaneous flows of images in the mind! Let your imaginations be renewed by the Spirit, they say!
[b]Richard Baxter[/b], our wonderful Puritan brother rebukes us in his book [b]The Reformed Pastor[/b],
"So great a God, whose message we deliver, should be honoured by our delivery of it...Do not reason and conscience tell you, that if you dare venture on so high a work as this, you should spare no pains to be qualified for the performance of it? It is not now and then an idle snatch or taste of studies that will serve to make an able and sound divine. I know that laziness hath learned to allege the vanity of all our studies, and how entirely the Spirit must qualify us for, and assist us in our work; as if God commanded us the use of means, and then warranted us to neglect them; [b]as if it were his way to cause us to thrive in a course of idleness, and to bring us to knowledge by dreams when we are asleep, or to take us up into heaven, and show us his counsels, while we think of no such matter, but are idling away our time on earth![/b] O, that men should dare, by their laziness, to 'quench the Spirit,' and then pretend the Spirit for the doing of it!...God hath required us, that we be 'not slothful in business,' but 'fervent in spirit, serving the Lord.' Such we must provoke our hearers to be, and such we must be ourselves. O, therefore, brethren, lose no time! Study, and pray, and confer, and practise; for in these four ways your abilities must be increased. Take heed to yourselves, lest you are weak through your own negligence, and lest you mar the work of God by your weakness."
Just put Jesus' Name and Title to it and swallow it down -- "eat the meat and spit out the bones!" Something we have already discussed in these forums before as utter deception!
If I am going to be honest with the ministry of God I see among the people, personally, my most effective ministry is in the denominational churches. Not in "calling them out of Babylon (the denomination, as you say)" but in calling them unto holiness! In preaching the Gospel and establishing truth and soberness and self-control and perserverance and godliness and brother kindness and charity and seeking to find an outstanding knowledge of God among the people.
What you are calling us to do is to run away and isolate ourselves -- get out of the "bundles" and go ... to be alone, if necessary? -- flee to the caves?
The problem is not denominations -- the problem is holiness! You are preaching like someone who points out the fruit of sin without ever putting the axe to the root!
Quote:
God is "singing a new song"...it call for a new "tune". Not all can hear it. He gives the hearing ear and the seeing eye to His elect in every age. The message and "present truth" in every age and move of His Spirit.
Sounds like progressive revelation, yea, another thing we can thank Joseph Smith Jr. for making so popular.
Of course it's "progressive revelation". How do you think we're changed into His image "from glory to glory"?!
You haven't figuered me out properly at all. My most fervant focus is TRUTH. Not prophesying...etc...
Yet, the Holy Spirit teaching of God's Word is also "prophetic utterance".
But, without building upon foundational doctrines and Scriptural ordinances we have no business "going on to perfection". God, (never mind me) has no tolerance for inacurate doctrine or ordinances.
Eg. water baptism in "titles" of Father, Son and Holy Spirit" instead of in "the name of Jesus Christ". Acts 2:38
The idolatrous idea of God being "three eternal persons".
The denial of Predestination of individuals as shown in Romans 8 & 9.
The denial of serpent seed...Cain being the physical offspring of the serpent.
There you have just 4 foundational doctrines...which if you deny or don't understand, you are hindered in understanding the ways and purposes of God; and even the reason Jesus Christ had to come.
Why did the deceived ones follow the lying signs and wonders?...because they received not the love of the Truth. 2 Thess. 2:10
THIS why God is calling His elect OUT of all denominational, mixed multitudes...because they can't receive the WHOLE Word of God and stay in those manmade fences.
The pure undefiled Word is outside all that hybridization and mixture.
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| | 2008/10/31 16:17 | |
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