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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Cheap Grace ?

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Joined: 2008/7/13
Posts: 44



appolus wrote:
All I would say in reply Stromboli does your opinion stack up with Scripture. ?.....Frank

I used scripture in my post although I did'nt give specifics where to find it. It would take too much time to label every scripture and try and argue my point. It might not even convince you if your not really open to it. If you would like to ask me a specific question, I will do my best to answer in detail and give scripture. I don't want this to be a debate. I've had enough of that, i't usually doesnt get anywhere and only causes division.

Off the subject.......I've always wanted to visit Scotland. I think I have ancestors from that region. I love the culture and the beutiful coloqial, Scottish, Galic language. I taught myself some of the Galic language but have forgotten it due to not using it.

 2008/10/24 11:59Profile

Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3162

 Re: Cheap Grace ?


As I was reflecting on what you went through with your son being burned, I recalled my own small third degree burn (I hit the front brakes of my small motorcycle on the gravel - when I went down my foot went into the wheel and the top of my big toe laid on the exhaust pipe - I was not wearing shoes). What came to mind was all the phases of healing. The scabbing, the itching, the breaking open, the draining - this went on for months. As I thought more about it, it occurred to me that it is our nerves that carry the pain signals. This is what I found when I did a word study:



1. An organ of sensation and motion in animals. The nerves are prolongations of the medullary substance of the brain, which ramify and extend to every part of the body.

2. A sinew or tendon.

3. Strength; firmness of body; as a man of nerve.

4. Fortitude; firmness of mind; courage.

5. Strength; force; authority; as the nerves of discipline.

NERVE, v.t. To give strength or vigor; to arm with force; as, fear nerved his arm.

(The actual 1828 dictionary has a better definition.)

This all seems to mirror what happens when the Father deals with our sin.

What an agony of heart - to watch your own child go through such pain - all the while knowing that he did not understand. I can not even begin to imagine . . .

 2008/10/24 14:49Profile


Hi write "What an agony of heart - to watch your own child go through such pain - all the while knowing that he did not understand. I can not even begin to imagine"

I appreciate your comments my friend. There is something uniquely agonizing about watching your child suffer. I know that there are many parents who have suffered this out there and they know the depth of this pain. I think the only thing worse than this is to watch your child die. Our firstborn died. We had to give permission to switch a machine off. To bury your own flesh and blood is a sore pain indeed. And so, with these two experiences in mind,one week before our third child was born I felt an urging in my spirit to write a letter. I did not know what I was going to write or to whom, but in obedience I picked up my pen and wrote.....

"A blessing to you in the name of Jesus. Jesus is the mighty king ,He is the Lion of Judah. There are many voices in this world who would say that He is weak or dead and that we are alone, that is a lie from hell itself. We serve a mighty God who has authority over kings and presidents, over nations and empires. Satan and his mighty demons tremble in the presence of Jesus.

There is not a hair on your head that the Lord does not know. The Lord Himself, in the garden of Gethsemane was tried to His very core, even His closest friends had fallen asleep on Him. And in His agony, in His despair, He cried out to His Father, “Father, take this cup from me”, at that very second we see the Lords humanity, He is so able to understand our situations.

Sometimes we would question ,”why Lord”, but there is always a reason.The lord cried from the cross “my God ,my God, why has thou forsaken me”, at that very point He touched man’s lowest ebb, despair, hell itself. I do not know, but I imagine that this was the hardest moment for our Father as He watched His Son hang from that cross and withdraw His presence.

The Father in His infinite wisdom and mercy and love for us ,sacrificed His Son. Oh the agony the Father felt, but now the perfect wisdom of our Father is shown. There is nothing now His Son does not know, His dying and rising, formed in perfection, is now the hope of mankind. Our Jesus is alive and He knows us inside out. He will never abandon us.

And when our time arrives to come into the very presence of the living God, when we kneel before the precious lamb of God, when we become one with our Lord, then we will know all that the Lord has done for us. It is an honor and a privilege to serve the Lord Jesus Christ. I tremble at the very thought of coming into the presence of Almighty God. We simply can’t imagine, our minds are totally inadequate to realize the Glory of our Lord.
May the Lord strengthen you and fill you with His glory. The victory is already won, let us wait upon the Lord."

I felt led, Heartsong, to send this to my mother and father in Scotland. One week later my third son was born. He had Downs Syndrome and was seriously ill, close to death. We had no idea beforehand that there was any problems. One week after he was born, the letter arrived back at my house. The Lord had led my mother to send it back to me and tell me that the letter was to me. As I read it I wept and wept and wept. My mind went back to all those years before when my son had been burned. God the Father spoke into my heart. He said He knew my pain. Then it dawned on me In a very small way, God the Father was sharing His pain with me, as a Father who had watched, in agonies we can never come close to imagining, His own Son suffer and die. He was telling me that there is a reason Daniel being born. Further along I would understand why. Oh Heartsong, this child of mine has changed my whole family in ways I could never have imagined. He is the joy of my life. What a glorious God, who reached into His treasury and gave me something worth more than gold.

Oh the grace and the love of my heavenly Father, all wise, all loving, taking great care to heal His children. Grace might be free to us, but it was not free to our God. It is precious, it is a pearl of great price and should be treasured. We will never know the true cost, never in this life, and probably not in the next either, enough to know "That God so loved the world that He gave His only Son." Oh thank you Father, I can never repay you for this glorious and costly love of yours, but perhaps in some small ways I can be faithful to you Lord. To give you my whole life is a small thing in comparison to your great sacrifice.....glory to God in the Highest, my King, my Lord.........My Abba Father.............Frank

 2008/10/24 20:49

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


Our dear brother, I also cannot imagine the experience you went through.

Still, let me affirm something wonderful I see in you...

He will never abandon us

And they overcame... because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

Blessings Frank,


Mike Compton

 2008/10/24 22:08Profile

Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3162


Oh Heartsong, this child of mine has changed my whole family in ways I could never have imagined. He is the joy of my life. What a glorious God, who reached into His treasury and gave me something worth more than gold.

My nephew has autism. The last time I visited with him, we sat under a tree together examining the seeds hanging from the branches. Then we examined the seeds laying on the ground. Later we had a wonderful time making a mess as we shared an orange. There is no doubt in my mind that angels of the Lord continually surround this child. Sometimes he just starts laughing as if he is in pure ecstasy. His light shines almost continually. Yes, these special children are the delight of our Father, and they spread joy to all that He sees fit to put in their path.

I am most humbled that our Father cares for us as He does - down to the smallest detail. He has charge of the whole universe and yet He cares for each of us individually. Setting the solution in place before the problem even arises - sometimes using the very words that we have written to bring home His point. It causes me much despair when, in my selfishness, I superceed that which He would have me to do - how I long for the day when this will no longer be the case.

There is a picture of Christ that I keep near my Bible. It is "The Deposition of Christ" by Antonio Ciseri - it is of Christ being carried from the cross to the tomb. This picture serves to remind me of the price - that I would never take for granted the sacrifice that was made on my behalf - the perfect, precious Saviour, slain for my sins, that I might live in Him. Oh, what a blessed Saviour He is - ever faithful, ever true.

 2008/10/24 23:50Profile


"This picture serves to remind me of the price - that I would never take for granted the sacrifice that was made on my behalf - the perfect, precious Saviour, slain for my sins, that I might live in Him. Oh, what a blessed Saviour He is - ever faithful, ever true."

Oh Yes brother, what a blessed saviour. My son may be a treasure to me, yet even my son pales in comparsion to my Jesus who broke into the darkness of one who was lost in drunkeness and drugs, one who tried to find relief in every foul thing that man can do. And then, almost at the bottom of the bottomless pit, my Lord opened my eyes and I saw my state. And in a moment of horror, I cried out to Him in all of my filthiness, and He came right down into my pit of darkness and the light of heaven shone on me. I cried out "Lord do not look at me,please forgive me" and He took my hand and said "shhh,you come with me." Up and up and up, filth falling from me, up and out that pit, that miry clay and there it was, the blue sky of heaven and He set me down on the solid Rock. Oh the joy of sins forgiven and reconcilliation. A new heart filled with love and peace, the stony heart destroyed. Oh the grace that filled that heart. Jesus, my Lord, my Saviour..............Frank

 2008/10/25 0:54

Joined: 2006/9/13
Posts: 3162


He reached down from heaven.
I looked up, and placed my hand in His - and now we walk together.

 2008/10/25 1:11Profile



My heart is shredded, it lies in pieces
Think, I must think
Here comes the hammer, it cannot miss
The blow, and now I shrink

The shrinking ends , I am no more
One chance to survive, I take it
And now I am no more
Only one choice , I thought, and I took it
And walked on through the door

The blows are still coming now
But I feel a little less
Surely my heart grows stronger
Ah yes, but no caress

I now reside in this world of mine
And the blows keep raining down
Stronger , even stronger now
A smile replaced by a constant frown

My heart, my heart, it is no more
It is completely encased in steel
My God, My God, Oh help me Lord
My God I cannot feel.

I look down in horror
No heart, no flesh , just bone
I look around in horror
My God, I’m all alone

Where is this place I thought I knew
It’s dark, it’s dimly lit
My God, My God, I’m almost at the bottom
Of the bottomless pit.

And in that moment, right where I was
My God He came to me
My son, my son, my son He cried
I have come to set you free.

Oh my God, Oh my Lord
Is it true, can I be free
Oh please dear Jesus, please dear God
Please don’t look on me

My son, my son, you are my son
And I will put you on the Rock
Be quiet now, be quiet son
Shh, do not talk

I have a Son, My only Son
He died upon a tree
He is My Son, He is your Lord
He’s the Rock that will set you free.

And so it was, and so it is
My Father took me in His Hand
Onward , ever upward
Out of the pit, into the Promised land

He set me on the Rock and I looked down
No longer a heart of steel
I could see and I could touch
I had flesh and I could feel

So come to the Rock, come to Christ
And He will set you free
If you will just open your eyes
He will let you see.

 2008/10/25 14:48

Joined: 2008/4/7
Posts: 797

 Re: Divine Love pure and undefiled

How the Lord shows His Divine Love for His Body.

The last night of the conference, Frank got his blog address onto the screen, and there was Grace enough to hold it still long enough so..... I spent many hours there and before Him reading, praying, thanking God through several post by you, Frank. I simply could not [u]leave a comment[/u] there. I am having extreme trouble now. How can we leave a comment anywhere (even on Sermonindex) about our precious, beloved Savior Son and God in all Him magnificent manifestation to us? Still, just one moment before Him and [u]how can we [b]not[/b] speak[/u].

Even doing useful things in His service barely sufficed. Flooded with scripture itself, it all came down to: “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word [the Christ] of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.” I decided I was going to tell you point blank, like in a personal message or e-mail. With that settled, coming on this site, I find this thread.

An atom of testimony today of His Grace: There is nothing that He does not work together for good to those that love Him and are called according to His purpose. Oh the Majesty of His purpose even for this tiny poor site. May no one miss it here or in any place.

Oh Father I can’t not ask specifically, that no one miss Him in the place called Greenock, the housing places there, the very curbs of the street, and the drinking places, the churches. Oh who will pray for them?

 2008/10/25 20:32Profile


Hi sister are right. What words could express the vastness of our God? The English language, in all it beauty, is like mere grunts as it stumbles and falters before the throne of grace. The enormity of our God, the grandness of His being, all of our words are like pitiful beggers that scrape and stumble before the majesty of our King. And yet this God has made Himself known to the least amongst society. The call went out to the highways and the byways.

1Co 1:26 For you see your calling, brothers, that not many wise men according to the flesh are called, not many mighty, not many noble.
1Co 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 and God has chosen the base things of the world, and things which are despised, and things which are not, in order to bring to nothing things that are;
1Co 1:29 so that no flesh should glory in His presence.
1Co 1:30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who of God is made to us wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption;
1Co 1:31 so that, according as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."

Quite simply, I live and breath and have my sanity because of Him. According to the flesh I would never have been chosen to be a follower of Christ. My family, even in a town that was poor, was the poorest of the poor. Sometimes we would sit for months without electricity. Many times I would walk 4 miles just to "borrow," potato's from my grandma. Yet, one night my mother walked out and came back in and announced that she had "found Jesus." Jesus came and sat down with us, He took up residence in our apartment. Now, who would ever have guessed that? The King of all creation, the Lord of Lords had deemed to come and visit us. No one can explain that. All I can say is that when a jeweler sells a diamond, he presents it on black velvet. Oh how the precious metals stand out on the blackness of the background. Jesus often time chooses to display His treasures, treasures of love, treasues of joy, treasures of peace, and the greatest of all treasues, salvation, on the blackest of canvases so that His works shine out all the more. May His glorious name be praised.....Frank

 2008/10/25 21:11

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