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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Will only the christians that are baptizwed with the Holy Ghost go in the rapture?

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

"""By "Spirit Baptism," I mean that "Pentecostal" (loaded term) experience whereby after one's conversion in which they are born-again (and receive the indwelling and sealing Spirit of God), that person receives a special "endument" with "power from on high," which equips the believer for effectual and powerful service."""

Amen, but the evidence of it is not speaking in tongues, for the witness is in us, The Spirit of Christ for His Body the Church, the Holy Spirit giving power to our minds to the effectual and powerful service of Truth that may be brought to a dying and sinning world.

1 John 5:10-13 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

"He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:" Then the Holy Spirit comes and teaches us the truth of this mystery, which is, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

All that are born again have this witness in themselves. This is the power from on high given to all that are born again in Christ.

If we don't have the Spirit of Christ we are none of His and the rapture and the Father's House in heavenly places are not ours either.

Praise God for the power in the Holy Spirit Teaching of the Truth, to our place in Christ. Heirs of God and Co-heirs with Christ:

1Jo 5:6 This is He that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/10/24 21:27Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re: Will only the christians that are baptizwed with the Holy Ghost go in the rapture

quote;
Please only y give a response if you belive that the baptism of the Holy Ghost happens after conversion.

Have you read the parable of the 10 virgins?

 2008/10/25 4:08Profile
jerryaustin1
Member



Joined: 2008/9/2
Posts: 60
Louisiana

 Re: In reply to you stating what you believe

First, I request only those that believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is after they are saved because that is the stand I shall forever hold becvause I have experienced IT. Second, In reply to your belief of being baptized with the Holy Ghost at when one is saved, did not Paul ask some diciples in Acts 19:1-2:

19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE YE BELIEVED? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

We would have to agree that the baptism of the Holy Ghost was separate from their conversion.

Your Brother in Christ,
Jerry


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Jerry Austin

 2008/11/6 13:51Profile
jerryaustin1
Member



Joined: 2008/9/2
Posts: 60
Louisiana

 clarification of the terms I have used

By baptism, I mean a pentecostal blessing as in Acts 2. By rapture, I mean a pretribulation rapture.


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Jerry Austin

 2008/11/6 14:06Profile
jerryaustin1
Member



Joined: 2008/9/2
Posts: 60
Louisiana

 I do NOT hold this belief

I do not hold the belief that you must be baptized with the Hly Ghost to go in the rapture. I have a friend who as of the last time I spoke with him, he was leaning toward that belief. I was not satisfied with all the scripture he gave in support of that belief.


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Jerry Austin

 2008/11/6 14:21Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

jerryaustin1 wrote:

Quote:


First, I request only those that believe that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is after they are saved because that is the stand I shall forever hold becvause I have experienced IT.




[u][b]Luke 23:39-43 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ save Yourself and us.”
But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
[b]And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”[/b]


Brother, from scripture, this thief did not experience anthing other then the precious work from our Lord stating, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Nothing was done, no implication of being filled with the Holy Spirit, no baptism with water, nothing besides a pure belief in the Lord. This thief is now a brother of ours in Christ Jesus, raised on that day of glory. To state otherwise would be to imply that Jesus does not mean what He says.


As for the pre-trib q&a, I cannot answer your question because I do not subscribe to that thought. :-)

Blessings brother.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/11/6 15:06Profile









 Re: I do NOT hold this belief

Billy Graham, Spurgeon, Tozer, Ravenhill... the list goes on and on... all men who never spoke in tongues. Are we prepared to say that none of these champions of Christ were Baptized with the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 [i]"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to [b]every man[/b] to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; [b]to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:[/b] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.[/i]

Notice scripture makes it clear that tongues is given to [b]some[/b], but clearly not all.

And just to make things perfectly clear, the Holy Spirit has Paul re-emphasize the fact the [b]not all[/b] will speak with tongues. Read on...

[b]1 Corinthians 12:28-31[/b] [i]"And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? [b]do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?[/b] But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.[/i]

In context, the obvious answer to the question "do all speak with tongues?"... is [b]NO[/b].

I am glad for those who come here and tell us they speak in tongues. I believe in tongues. I believe in the gifts of the Spirit. The amazing thing to me tho is that people love to boast and argue for the gift of tongues... yet I rarely hear anyone boast and argue for the gift of helps, or administration, or exhortation, or [b]giving[/b], or intercession, or leadership, or mercy, or....

It's always about tongues. It's interesting that Paul goes on in the next chapter to actually [b]minimize[/b] the gift of tongues in light of the other gifts, and in light of godly love.

If you feel the need to carry the banner of "tongues", and convince everyone that you're right... and that everyone needs to speak in tongues... and grade people's spirituality on whether or not they speak in tongues... you are out of balance and what you're doing is unscriptural. You're out of order.

Tongues is an important gift because it comes from God, and if something comes from God... it's important. But compared to the other gifts of the Spirit, especially the ones that empower the believer to minister to others... tongues is the least important gift of all.

Oh Lord that we would all have the gift of "helps"!

Krispy

 2008/11/6 15:07
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re: I do NOT hold this belief

Quote:

jerryaustin1 wrote:
I do not hold the belief that you must be baptized with the Hly Ghost to go in the rapture. I have a friend who as of the last time I spoke with him, he was leaning toward that belief. I was not satisfied with all the scripture he gave in support of that belief.




I understand that you do NOT hold to that belief, but my question is: why is it that do not you hold to that belief?

The Word of God is clear, that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ-he is none of his (does not belong to Christ)

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

If the Spirit of Christ is not in someone, then that individual will not go with Christ in the rapture because "...he is none of his".

I believe that a person is not saved if they have NOT received the Spirit of God (Spirit of Christ, Holy Ghost) because that is the clear teaching to the Church in the New Testament.

If a man believes in Jesus, yet has not the Spirit-his belief in Christ may be motivated or assumed by the flesh-and belief according to the flesh is not justified by God as redeemable means of Grace unto salvation. Our belief in Christ must come from that "drawing of the Spirit"- which the Spirit can and does draw people unto him without being inside of them.


 2008/11/6 15:08Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Billy Graham, Spurgeon, Tozer, Ravenhill... the list goes on and on... all men who never spoke in tongues. Are we prepared to say that none of these champions of Christ were Baptized with the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 [i]"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to [b]every man[/b] to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; [b]to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:[/b] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.[/i]

Notice scripture makes it clear that tongues is given to [b]some[/b], but clearly not all.





It says "...[b]DIVERS[/b] KINDS of tongues" are given to some. Divers means "various". This means More than one kind of tongue are given to some. This is not the same as " unknown tongue" spoken of in 1 Cor 14:2-4.

In scripture you have "divers(various) kinds of tongues" and you " unknown tongue" and these are NOT the same thing.



 2008/11/6 15:18Profile









 Re:

Depends on how you interpret it. You can speak to me in Swahili and Vietnamese... they are "divers" tongues, and they are unknown tongues to me.

Fact is there is no clear evidence in scripture that all men will speak in tongues when filled with the Holy Spirit. There is clear evidence (because it painly says so) that not all speak in tongues.

And you conveniently refuse to answer my question about Tozer, Spurgeon, etc...

And I stand by my last point in that post too. Another point you choose to ignore.

:-) ... love ya, bro.

Krispy

 2008/11/6 15:41





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