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woestyn101
Member



Joined: 2008/10/6
Posts: 2


 2 kings 5 - praying in a mosque

Hi everyone
I need some help here. I work in the Middle east and there are some workers here who have an approach to the work with which I am not comfortable. Their approach :

1) When a Muslim comes to Christ they say that the Muslim can still call himself a Muslim because of the meaning of the word Muslim (one who submits to God.

2) Secondly they also say that the muslim, after he became a Christian can also still continue to go to the mosque. They justify this with Naaman's request to the prophet in 2 kings 5 :
"18 But may the LORD forgive your servant for this one thing: When my master enters the temple of Rimmon to bow down and he is leaning on my arm and I bow there also--when I bow down in the temple of Rimmon, may the LORD forgive your servant for this."
19 "Go in peace," Elisha said. After Naaman had travelled some distance,"

Please help me brothers to Godly approach for the work in the Middle East to honor Christ and His word with correct interpretation.

The problem I have with the Word Muslim is Yes it meanns the one who submits, but that it is only grammatically. A word is also defined by its context and the way it is use. Everyone in the Middel East and even the west understands that a muslim is someone who worships God by following the Quran which was revealed to Muhammad their Prophet. If somebody who has accepted Christ and still calls himself a Muslim and goes to the Mosque, for me that is deception and making all the others believe that you are still a muslim as they are.

greetings
woestyn101

 2008/10/6 18:36Profile









 Re: 2 kings 5 - praying in a mosque

Hello, God bless you for your labors. I have been to the middle east twice for about a year each. I know a "little" of the challenges of witnessing to Muslims.

I would like to offer some thoughts on the 2 kings 5.
When I read it I see that in vs 17 Naaman declares that he will NOT offer sacrifices or burnt offerings unto OTHER gods. Then in vs 18 he says hey because my master goes there to rimmon to worship I go with him cuz he is my master,or boss, on earth. So I will bow with him to help him do his worship but I am not worshipping as he is. I am only there cuz I am bound to my master, not to worship this other god.
The apostle Paul acknoweldged obediance to our earthly masters, bosses, so long as it dosen't call for us to disobey God.
Elisha saw the spirit of the situation and said thats fine. He could say this cuz he knew naaman had previously declared he would not worship other gods any more.

Concerning your observation on name "muslim". I agree with your view.

I'm sure others will have good wisdom to share with you on SI.
There is wisdom in a multitude of counslers.
God bless.john

 2008/10/6 19:40
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2763
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: 2 kings 5 - praying in a mosque

This reminds me of an account I read of the life of Amy Carmichael. She started her missionary work in Japan and began ministering in a town that was mostly Buddhist. There were only nine Christians in the town when she began ministering and they thought that Amy was making the gospel too difficult when she insisted that converts must burn their idols. They told Amy that she just didn't understand their culture and the idols didn't do any harm, they hoped Amy would understand the wisdom of what they said. Amy stood her ground and told converts the idols must go. Stand your ground too. You are right to be concerned about the approach of these other workers.

By the way, the Christian population of that town tripled in the short time that Amy ministered there.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2008/10/6 20:51Profile
KathleenP
Member



Joined: 2008/4/3
Posts: 228
Maine

 Re:

This forum is quite timely as I also believe it is pertinent to the post on Native American ministries.

When we come to Jesus old things are passed away and ALL things become new. I become uncomfortable when we try to "pillow" the the truth of what salvation requires. It isn't easy and Jesus himself said we must count the cost.

I have seen many go to powwows and hang dream catchers in their windows because no one had the honesty to tell them that these things are not harmless. Prior to salvation, there was not much of my life that was worth hanging onto anyhow and once I was born again, I wholely understood that I'd been lied to and deceived by religion, culture, and family traditions and so I had no desire to hang on to these anyhow.

I have a fair amount of Indian ancestory in my bloodlines and when younger, I had a desire to hold on to this heritage, but now it is the past.

When a muslim or any other nationality or religion comes to Christ they should be instantly aware that there is no other way. There is a gentle and meek way to present the truth to others about Jesus, but reguardless, the gospel will offend. It really is a two edged sword and we must be willing to surrender all gods whatever they may be.

Kathleen


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Kathleen

 2008/10/6 21:15Profile
learn
Member



Joined: 2008/7/24
Posts: 613


 Re: 2 kings 5 - praying in a mosque

Could they say this because they are fearful? Becoming a Christian there can be very dangerous and scary. I believe there are some differences between the Middle East and in Japan where when one change religion, the consequences can be deadly. Example stoning and killing people are more common in Middle East. It will take time for them to mature in their walk with God and for God to strengthen and convict them of this--each individual will most likely have different times when they come to this conviction(how long--only God knows and I will advise against human judgement that 'by x time' they should not do such things). Pray to God on how you should proceed with this but I think its also good to advise them that they are not using the proper context in trying to justify their actions.

Perhaps this book by Brother Andrew --'Secret Believers what happens when Muslims believe in Christ' will help. Have not read it.


_________________
geraldine

 2008/10/6 21:36Profile
poet
Member



Joined: 2007/2/16
Posts: 231
Longview WA

 Re: 2 kings 5 - praying in a mosque

you would be greatly enlightened by reading a new book by brother Andrew called secret believers.
it's about whats going on in the lives of muslim's who convert to christianity today.
names and places have been changed to protect those who are written about in this book.
After reading this I find more mercy for those who are enduring suffering for just trying to serve Christ.
If a muslim gets caught converting to christianity they are usually killed, tortured first then killed, and the police never do anything about this and this is in countrys who claim religeous tolerance.
Pray for Muslims to know Jesus, and for Jesus to protect them.


_________________
howard

 2008/10/7 2:40Profile
woestyn101
Member



Joined: 2008/10/6
Posts: 2


 Re: 2 kings 5 - praying in a mosque

HI Everone

Thank you for your responses. I have just read the book secret believers by brother Andrew and I agree it is a very good book and every Christian today should read it. In light of my question the book was not helpful in that regard but then again that was not the purpose of he book but let me say what I got from the book concerning my question : Is it ok for a muslim who converts to still call himself a muslim and go to the mosque?

In the book all the convers except one ( a man called Kareem) made a radical change and told their friens and families. Subsequently they were imprisoned and tortered and two of them got killed. The fruit of their life as Christians was amazing. Concerning Kareem, he was a high goverment official and said he refused to put his family to shame and thus went on calling himself a muslim and still continued to go to the mosque.

My observations is that if a muslim convert still calls himself a muslim and goes to he mosque....then the whole chater 10 of Matthew loses its meaning because their is no price to pay!!!....no carrying of he cross!!!

21"Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes"

32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven."

37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. "

Brother Andrew said himself in he book that a for a chruch to start in the Middle East their will be martyrs who will be killed.

I am not writing this as somebody with no experience. I have worked with Muslims since 1993 and have lived and worked in the Middle East for the past 10 years. Currently 3 muslim brothers whom I have led to the Lord this year has been put in prison (4 months ago) and they are still in prison. They are incredible witnesses of Jesus. I love them dearly and share with their suffering but I know their is no other way to follow Jesus in these countries than to carry one's cross..even to death...

To try to avoid persecution by still continuing as a muslim by name and going to he mosque is an avoidence of Matthew 10 and the cost of discipleship required by Jesus.

The disciples of Jesus understood that perfectly and in the end died for their faith, knowing the cost...they witnessed...they were not silent and they were not secret believers.

Peace in Christ
Woestyn101




 2008/10/21 11:45Profile









 Re:

Re 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
(KJV)

 2008/10/21 12:14





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