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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons :  The Bombing of Nagasaki August 9, 1945: The Untold Story

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lovejt
Member



Joined: 2005/11/5
Posts: 123


 Re:

I was in Nagasaki when the anniversary came by. At the morning of the anniversary, everything is quiet except for bells ringing at the exact time of the bombing. I'll never forget the experience. Nagasaki is a beautiful city with a unique scenery reminding me of San Francisco and Hong Kong combined. After the war, there was more interest in Christianity i was told. It was a place many catholic missionaries visited during the 1800's. There's a popular monument where a group of them were martyred.


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james thorpe

 2008/9/11 21:19Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
The problem is our American pride.



What's the word to speak to those who have American shame. Can they also be Christians, or do they have to keep hearing about sins of their nations that are 100, 200 years old.

I ache in my heart for the darkness that surrounds not only Americans but the whole world. On the surface, I smile and make jokes because people can't handle someone who is mournful all the time. Brothers, you have no idea what you are talking about. If only you could live in my wretched heart for a week. Is there pride...I stink of it and am ashamed! But is there wanton boasting in "My country" without sorrow?

You should stop listening to the news and get to know real flesh and blood Christians in this country. Let me introduce you to just one...myself. I risk you looking down your noses, but I do it for the hope of fellowship.

Some exerpts from my morning journal during the past few days...

"9-1 -08 The American Isaiah 10.
How long do we have?
What will you do on the day of visitation?
When the desolation will come from afar?
To who will you turn to help then?
Your heathen countrymen?
Your hated dollar?
Your human wisdom?
Where will you leave your pride?
Where has your glory gone to?"

"8-3-08
Sorrow Hymn

Grant me repentence O Righteous Judge
Flow thou your river of tears into my barrenness.
Help me to rend not just my garment!
Speak to my heart, 'Arise, Repent!"
Grant me repentence, O Righteous Judge.

Give me the Sorrow that leads to life
Let thy word divide bone and marrow as a knife.
Bring thy flame to affections false.
Prove a faith as silver free from dross.
Grant me the sorrow that leads to life.

Grant me a pure heart that sees your face.
For there is none so lovely among Adam's race
You are Heaven's dearest son, the Promised seed.
Yet for my sin have did you willingly bleed
Grant me a pure heart that sees your face.

Grant me a robe of thy righteousness
And to worship the Lamb that made it spotless.
To despise the false humily that defiles
with false grace for sins wantonly piled
Grant me a robe of Christ's Righteousness.

Grant me a dread of Hell's reality.
And to know that sinners are damned with just certainty.
To spit out the sugary self love so vile,
that allows sinners to pass by as I smile.
Grant me a dread of Hell's certainty.

Grant me a death that honors your name.
When this clay crumbles, let nothing in me defame.
If by sickness, or violence cruel and cold
or if in the happy embrace of a loving household.
Grant me a death that honors your name.

Grant me life when I walk death's waters
For I would sink down without your hand O savior.
Speak to my fears as I look out and see,
The Alpha and Omega coming for such as me.
Grant me life when I walk death's waters."

8-5-08 The Fellowship of Mourners

Where is the fellowship of those in holy mourning?
Of those that wait on God trembling at his warnings?

Where true repentance is a gift most precious
the heart kept soft by the oil of God's presence
Who wait by the altar without life's hurry,
Their hearts not haughty or filled with worry

Cast from the world into a wilderness
Yet everywhere bearing fruits of Holiness
In this world they must suffer the darkness
Yet in the light of the Son they find their rest.

They recall their former ways,
hateful passions as cruel chains
But they are no longer sin's slaves,
the government of Christ reigns.

They recall their former shame
but are not cast away,
Their eyes fixed on the Appointed Lamb
With hope they remain pure for the day
Whe proud men fall, but the sons of grace will stand.

Oh soul, if you ever find a family so true
do not become proud in your conceit
For it was for their benefit God chose to pursue
Me to come as a servant to wash their feet.

and this very morning,

Job 42 song

I've heard that you can do whatever
the counsel of your heart conceives.
I've heard that you are without measure
I heard but I did not believe.

Yet now I see you.
Yes now I see you.
You are too wonderful for me to understand
Now that I see you.

I lay in the dust,
I lay in the dust
Dare I question one who is so just?
No, I am but dust.

Look brethren, I feel silly for sharing all of this. But I risk bearing myself, so that you realize I am not the headlines of your newspapers and blogs. We are flesh and blood saints just like you. Please stop labeling me as an American, and reminding me of Nagasaki and slavery. I am just a brother like many who is glad that the engine light in his little car didn't mean he had to miss work today. I can only repent of my own sins, live as circumspectly as I know how, and then leave the world to it's darkness. I cannot repent for the whole world, the wars, the Walmarts, the oil business, the housing business, the abortion mills, the liberal courts. When you put that burden on me it wounds deeper then you could possibly comprehend, because if those things were in my control I would repent by God's grace.

Am I ashamed of America? What a poor question. I ashamed of everything I am without Christ.

I am ashamed of how I must live. I ache everytime I push into a traffic lane going to work, pushing and shoving to catch an exit. I am ashamed that it takes so much money to live when most have nothing. I am ashamed that I didn't live holier in my youth, ashamed of the sins I did, and the ones my country men did. I am ashamed that my shame is useless to the problem of evil. Where is the end of this shame?

Am I alone in my tiny little raft tossing upon the world's ocean of vileness, seasick with it's sinful turbulence? Apparently I am.. for there is few who want to be honest about these things. Certainly the Christians from Europe seem to walk upon solid ground without shame themselves. They cannot imagine what shame is, since they don't live in America. Shame is our unique national calling. If my European brothers could know what shame is themselves, then we could have fellowship as ones who love not the world...but they seem to only share the world's indignation.

Well, I apologize for this indulgence. We can now return to our regularly sheduled program where I make light jokes about France, and you guys post articles reviewing over and over our catalogue of historic sins that I can do nothing about.

MC


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Mike Compton

 2008/9/11 21:45Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 "We" The people ...

Quote:
Every time that we claim to be an American we embrace that which America does - better to claim that we are Christians and embrace all that He does.



This may not be the best excerpt to launch from but ...

I must concur with MC here and share his bewilderment. The statements are far too broad. In a word, "[i]We[/i]" is quite impossible to apply to what happened then or what an "American Christian" is, believes, practices now ... In the former it is impossible that is could be applied broadly and the later ...

For the sake of narrowing it to just those for instance that travel these corridors, collectively - the outcry is [i]against[/i] that general perception. What might it be to an onlooker in this hour? Abuse and ridicule- Fanciful constructs based on prosperity - The wildness of the recently departed, so called revival still smoldering behind us - "Your Best Life Now". I could be well into a thousand related posts faster than I could link to them.

To make any of this 'representative' is fallacious at best and dishonest at worst.

It is a redundant mention but I will go ahead anyway. It was right here these now 7 years removed that I found myself truly disgusted, repulsed and broken over the state of matters. It was within days of what happened on 9-11 that I attended a ... 'service' to mourn and pray over the events of that incredible day. And I did mourn, profoundly for awhile, that is until they decided that "The Lord" told them they should now go on with the regularly scheduled programming to put it purposefully and decidedly sarcastic. That was to pick up where they left off; "Teaching" how to speak in tongues, with a gathering of babblers instructed to 'let yourself go' and so they did, with no interpretation even suggested nor offered and so it went on, a half hour of mourning and the rest ... I cannot finish it. It was the turning point and I never returned again to that church and pretty well left the 'church' for good not shortly there after.

I am not so upset at this proposition as it is stated and certainly not at anyone here, but there is a sense of injustice, a sense of stereotyping that I cannot fathom. It could be rightly pointed out that by categorizing "American Christianity" in the terms I have used is one and the same thing, but even it is not equally representative, what might be said of us, collectively from all the various nations we are from? We do not term anyone as "German Christians" or "Ethiopian Christians" and tie their nations activities to them. If we use them at all it might denote demographically but beyond that ...

This is far too multifaceted to tie down. We have idiots and I cannot think of a better word to use, that can speak for themselves and twist the scriptures to their own destruction as they always have and always will. That can never speak for everyone or for any nation even [i]For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel[/i] Rom 9:6

I see no need to even broach the subject matter of such a horrific thing and I also cannot fathom having to repent for that which I had no collective or even abstract part of. That doesn't make anyone proud, I am more inclined to use the word "[i]we[/i]" as Daniel did for those things that he mourned and repented of in that mighty prayer in chapter 9. There is something different collectively about sin and that depravity that invades [i]all[/i] men and that which is put upon from the outside, by mere men making accessories to a crime that they cannot be held accountable for.



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Mike Balog

 2008/9/11 22:25Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

MC, I posted this response before seeing you had ... I just caught a glimpse that we both used the same terminology of "regularly scheduled programming" ... A strange irony, but had to mention it.


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Mike Balog

 2008/9/11 22:28Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Not alone

MC,

If I may abuse the term, I thank God you are my American Christian brother. It would be the same thing if you were my Pakistani brother ...

No you are not alone at all brother. I have probably used a variety of terms over the years here and crying on the inside is the closest thing I can give to an expression, that it is like an undercurrent that never stops flowing, it's always in motion. But I also must break off somehow into some levity at times and recognize that we can take ourselves far too seriously - It doesn't change anything one iota ...

Just as well I have this continual observation that the world, the worlds reality has a great gloss over it- This morning it was 'masked', it means the same thing. Still I cannot break off from this incredible dichotomy of leaving the prayer closet in the morning getting into my truck (and praying the starter will crank one more time before I get a chance to replace it) and head out into this ... fog. I go about my day as if I was an entirely different person then the one screaming to get out from the inside. I ponder and wonder at the seeming hypocrisy of it all, of myself. Am I just a hypocrite? By the time the day rolls on to completion it seems it is full of regrets and shame just over the thought life, the things that didn't even get past the lips, just that I thought of them and maybe put or pushed into the right circumstances ... would I? I think to myself 'If I was just in some kind of full time ministry - If I could just go back to the days of pumping endless sermons through a Walkman while I worked' (Blessed days they were!). I am finding this life tortuous to live in this present world, it is of it's own distraction, God is not in it's thoughts, it's ways or of it's remotest considerations. It just goes on as if the day of death is always someone else's problem and consideration, always far removed from the business at hand. What is stranger still is, at least in my circumstances the people are not overtly 'heathen' if I could define that loosely. They and I are for the most part plugging away at a living, they are cordial and kind, no vulgar language (Short of some meetings) - Just a common lot. It's enjoyable on that level, challenging things we all face, most are hardworking.

But I am not of this world. It's not something said as it is [i]felt[/i], I do not belong to it because I "shouldn't" but because I am constituted against it, I hate every false way and not any more than I hate that false way that is [i]my way[/i]. It's an unending battle and I have settled that but it gets weary still.

Most nights it's difficult to come to the Lord and bemoan the same things - I have failed - I will trust you Lord- I will ask for wisdom and I know You will give it - Then the morning starts again, I head out the same way and ... Distracted. Busy. Responsibilities. Things to fix and things to take care of, setup, mitigate, figure out, plan for.

Problems at home. Problems here. Care for the Brethren ... everywhere, there is no end of things to pray for, so much so that it can be overwhelming. I watched a very interesting bit on the old idiot box last night; Did you know they have a "Homeless World Cup?" It was incredible, I wish I had caught it from the beginning. Homeless men from practically every nation competing in a street style soccer competition (football to our European friends)- Drug addicts from Ireland - The USA had a representation - They did spot stories on different teams from different nations and I found myself drawn and pulling for the Russians. If I got it right they have 5 million homeless, a staggering number. The gentleman they were speaking with talked of how for them, they had to win it all. They had to win to get any kind of recognition for their plight. Homelessness there is taboo. It was in his speech and his demeanor what this all meant and was really struck by his answer to a simple question; "Who is the best player on your team?" To which he answered; "The best player on our team is the team." They went on to win it all going undefeated and I praised God for it, yet for all this ... Do they yet know the Lord?

And the undercurrent comes rising up a few more levels.

God bless you MC, for all that you shared of yourself. Christian you are beloved indeed and I am assured of your heart, certainly the benefit of whatever doubt for the posting of this, (and that is neither here nor there) look forward to your response dear brother.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/9/12 0:01Profile









 Re:

What an interestin thread. Coompton writes....

"Contrary to fashionable political caricatures, most Americans are not war mongers. Furthermore, American Christians are not the bitter people clinging to guns and religion as they have been portrayed."

Yet Compton also writes very eloquently about his heart and his hatred of sin, his own and others. There is a dichotomy to me here. Its a very complicted picture I belive. I am a Scotsman living in the Bible belt, lived here in Knasas for 18 years. So, I know a wee bit about American Christianity and European Christianty(thats almost an oxy-moron now)

I love America. Not just my Christian brothers and sisters, but America and Americans in general. I have found them to be amongst the kindest, if not the kindest people on the planet. I was born-again here at the age of 26, so in many ways it is the land of my "birth." I came over here with my wife and family and $3000. I was a bricklayer. Not a bad job where I come from. 18 years later I am a Real Estate Agent and my wife is a lender and we live in a large, 5 bedroomed, two car garage house with a fountain in the backyard. I grew up , in Scotland, in a "Tenement flat," a one bedroomed high-rise apartment with five of us. The American dream is the level playing field. Not the stuff, but the ability to be succesful, despite my "working class," background and accent. Thats not going to happen anywhere in Europe. This country embraced me and I have found acceptance and kindness almost at every turn, from Americans across the board, whether Christian or not, whether Democrat or Republican.

I described Comptons remarks as a dichotomy because he lets slip the general paranoid attitude of my Christian brothers and sisters by using Obama's quote. Its very sad to me that politics has ripped the heart out of Christianity in America. I do know you Compton, in the general sense, I already know that you are a good man and a wonderful Christian. Yet, you do find some(not sure how much) of your identity in the Republican party and partisanship. We , as Christians(I have avoided giving any of my brothers or sisters national labels) should be above the bitter divides of this country. We should be a force for love and unity. We should derive 100% of our identity in Christ and Christ alone.

If any of you guys have ever been to Scotland, you will know that you would be hard pressed to find a more patriotic country in the world. We are famous for it and it goes back a thousand years :) Becuase of the poverty and social conditions of the lower reaches of the Clyde estuary in the harsh conditions of the shipbuilding industry, I grew up a "socialist." Now there is a dirty word in America. Do you know, when I was saved, that I lost all notion of socialism. Do you further know that when I was saved, my patriotism was also gone. Do not get me wrong, I love Scottish people, I long to see them saved, but I do not rejoice in Scottish culture. So much of it is an offense to the living God. I find my love in my Christian brothers and sisters, whatever part of the world or social class that they come from or whatever the color of their skin is. I rejoice in the fact that I am color blind. I rejoice in the fact that I can mingle with wealthy people or "poor," people and take them just the way I find them for the Lord knocked both chips of my well balanced shoulders. This is overcoming the world brothers. To be embroiled in the politics and crass arguments of the world is to be defeated. As for the bombing of Japanese cities and German cities, I have to disagree with my brother who resides in Norway. This was a secular action, taken by a secular country against another secular country, despite what my brothers in this land of America may think. The horror that was unleased upon these two countries was a horror that they brought upon themsleves and they only have themesleves to blame. I know this is simplistic, but If I pick the biggest guy in the school yard and go up and punch him in the face, then, rest assured, I am going to get a thrashing.

Christian brothers and sisters should let the world get along about its business and live peacably among them. If you really want to change the world, try bringing someone to Christ, perhaps one of those pesky liberals or homosexuals. According to Barna, over 92% of Christians have never saw anyone come to Christ through their personal sharing and if every Christian brought one person to Christ, and that person brought one person to Christ and that happened one more time, then all of America would be saved in less than three years. Isnt it time to put all of our trust in Christ and none of it in Washington?

 2008/9/12 1:33





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