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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Does God have differents ways of willing?

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Joined: 2008/5/11
Posts: 129
Southern California

 Does God have differents ways of willing?

I was thinking about this topic as I was listening to a family friend talk about the joy of having her baby, and I wanted to share this thought.

There are certain and many babies that have been born, and their birth was linked back to a sin called fornication.

God has revealed in His word that fornication is a sin and those who love and cherish sin shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

There is a sense in which God does not will that anyone commits the sin of fornication and rather He wills only for a married man & woman to conceive children and specifically for the glory of God. (His revealed will)

There is another sense in which God does will for this sin to happen. Because through this sin, God has decree for children to be born... and he has also decreed to show mercy on many who are enslaved to this sin (by graciously giving them a new heart through the gospel), and thus His name shall be great among all nations. Hallelujah. (This would be an example of God's will of Sovereign decree concerning everything that comes to pass)

There are plenty of scriptures that give similar examples.

God does not will that anyone should hate or despise His Son. (revealed will of God)

God counseled and determined for wicked men to hate and crucify Jesus. See Acts 2 and 4. (Sovereign and secret will of God of which we are not permitted to question)

I don't want to bring this topic up for debate, but rather to comfort the saints who have committed horrible sins in the past and those who also are being tempted to believe that all hope is lost because of their shortcomings and failures.

"[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. [29]For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. [30]Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." (Romans 8:28-30)

Lest there be any confusion about this subject, I will follow this post with a doctrinal statement for anyone who would prefer to study or discuss the matter.


Abraham Juliot

 2008/8/30 21:21Profile

Joined: 2008/5/11
Posts: 129
Southern California

 Re: Does God have differents ways of willing?

From the The Westminster Confession

Of God’s Eternal Decree
3:1 God from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass (Rom_9:15, Rom_9:18; Rom_11:33; Eph_1:11; Heb_6:17): yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin (Jam_1:13, Jam_1:17; 1Jo_1:5), nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established (Pro_16:33; Mat_17:12; Joh_19:11; Act_2:23; Act_4:27, Act_4:28).
3:2 Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions (Mat_11:21, Mat_11:23; Act_15:18; 1Sa_23:11, 1Sa_23:12), yet hath He not decreed any thing because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions (Rom_9:11, Rom_9:13, Rom_9:16, Rom_9:18).
3:3 By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels (Mat_25:41; 1Ti_5:21) are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others fore-ordained to everlasting death (Pro_16:4; Rom_9:22, Rom_9:23; Eph_1:5, Eph_1:6).
3:4 These angels and men, thus predestinated and fore-ordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number is so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished (Joh_13:18; 2Ti_2:19).
3:5 Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory (Rom_8:30; Eph_1:4, Eph_1:9, Eph_1:11; 1Th_5:9; 2Ti_1:9), out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto (Rom_9:11, Rom_9:13, Rom_9:16; Eph_1:4, Eph_1:9): and all to the praise of His glorious grace (Eph_1:6, Eph_1:12).
3:6 As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, fore-ordained all the means thereunto (Eph_1:4, Eph_1:5; Eph_2:10; 2Th_2:13; 1Pe_1:2). Wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ (1Th_5:9, 1Th_5:10; Tit_2:14), are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified (Rom_8:30; Eph_1:5; 2Th_2:13), and kept by His power through faith unto salvation (1Pe_1:5). Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only (Joh_6:64, Joh_6:65; Joh_8:47; Joh_10:26; Joh_17:9; Rom_8:28-39; 1Jo_2:19).
3:7 The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extendeth or withholdeth mercy, as He pleaseth, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonour and wrath, for their sin, to the praise of His glorious justice (Mat_11:25, Mat_11:26; Rom_9:17, Rom_9:18, Rom_9:21, Rom_9:22; 2Ti_2:19, 2Ti_2:20; 1Pe_2:8; Jud_1:4).
3:8 The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care (Deu_29:29; Rom_9:20; Rom_11:33), that men attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election (2Pe_1:10). So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God (Rom_11:33; Eph_1:6), and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the Gospel (Luk_10:20; Rom_8:33; Rom_11:5, Rom_11:6, Rom_11:20; 2Pe_1:10).

Of Providence
5:1 God the great Creator of all things doth uphold (Heb_1:3), direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things (Job 38:1-41:34; Psa_135:6; Dan_4:34, Dan_4:35; Act_17:25, Act_17:26, Act_17:28), from the greatest even to the least (Mat_10:29-31), by His most wise and holy providence (Psa_104:24; Psa_145:17; Pro_15:3), according to His infallible fore-knowledge (Psa_94:8-11; Act_15:18), and the free and immutable counsel of His own will (Psa_33:10, Psa_33:11; Eph_1:11), to the praise of the glory of His wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy (Gen_45:7; Psa_145:7; Isa_63:14; Rom_9:17; Eph_3:10).
5:2 Although, in relation to the fore-knowledge and decree of God, the first Cause, all things come to pass immutably, and infallibly (Act_2:23): yet, by the same providence, He ordereth them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently (Gen_8:22; Exo_21:13; Deu_19:5; 1Ki_22:28, 1Ki_22:34; Isa_10:6, Isa_10:7; Jer_31:35).
5:3 God in His ordinary providence maketh use of means (Isa_55:10, Isa_55:11; Hos_2:21, Hos_2:22; Act_27:31, Act_27:44), yet is free to work without (Job_34:10; Hos_1:7; Mat_4:4), above (Rom_4:19-21), and against them at His pleasure (2Ki_6:6; Dan_3:27).
5:4 The almighty power, unsearchable wisdom, and infinite goodness of God so far manifest themselves in His providence, that it extendeth itself even to the first fall, and all other sins of angels and men (2Sa_16:10; 2Sa_24:1; 1Ki_22:22, 1Ki_22:23; 1Ch_10:4, 1Ch_10:13, 1Ch_10:14; 1Ch_21:1; Act_2:23; Act_4:27, Act_4:28; Rom_11:32-34); and that not by a bare permission (Act_14:16), but such as hath joined with it a most wise and powerful bounding (2Ki_19:29; Psa_76:10), and otherwise ordering and governing of them, in a manifold dispensation, to His own holy ends (Gen_1:20; Isa_10:6, Isa_10:7, Isa_10:12); yet so, as the sinfulness thereof proceedeth only from the creature, and not from God, who, being most holy and righteous, neither, is nor can be, the author or approver of sin (Psa_50:21; Jam_1:13, Jam_1:14, Jam_1:17; 1Jo_2:16).
5:5 The most wise, righteous, and gracious God doth oftentimes leave for a season His own children to manifold temptations, and the corruption of their own hearts, to chastise them for their former sins, or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption, and deceitfulness of their hearts, that they may be humbled (2Sa_24:1; 2Ch_32:25, 2Ch_32:26, 2Ch_32:31); and, to raise them to a more close and constant dependence for their support unto) Himself, and to make them more watchful against all future occasions of sin, and for sundry other just and holy ends (Psa 73:1-28; Psa_77:1-10, Psa_77:12; Mar_14:66-72; Joh_21:15-17; 2Co_12:7-9).
5:6 As for those wicked and ungodly men whom God, as a righteous Judge, for former sins doth blind and harden (Rom_1:24, Rom_1:26, Rom_1:28; Rom_11:7, Rom_11:8), from them He not only withholdeth His grace, whereby they might have been enlightened in their understandings, and wrought upon in their hearts (Deu_29:4); but sometimes also withdraweth the gifts which they had (Mat_13:12; Mat_25:29), and exposeth them to such objects as their corruption makes occasions of sin (Deu_2:30; 2Ki_8:12, 2Ki_8:13); and, withal, gives them over to their own lusts, the temptations of the world, and the power of Satan (Psa_81:11, Psa_81:12; 2Th_2:10-12); whereby it comes to pass that they harden themselves, even under those means which God useth for the softening of others (Exo_7:3; Exo_8:15, Exo_8:32; Isa_6:9, Isa_6:10; Isa_8:14; Act_28:26, Act_28:27; 2Co_2:15, 2Co_2:16; 1Pe_2:7, 1Pe_2:8).
5:7 As the providence of God doth in general reach to all creatures, so after a most special manner it taketh care of His Church, and disposeth all things to the good thereof (Isa_43:3-5, Isa_43:14; Amo_9:8, Amo_9:9; Rom_8:28; 1Ti_4:10).

Abraham Juliot

 2008/8/30 21:23Profile

Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


From the The Westminster Confession[/qoute]Just a note about Westminster;

"No man is able, either of himself, or by any grace received in this life, perfectly to keep the commandments of God, but doth daily break them in thought, word, and deed" Larger Catechism

The Westminster says, that you have to daily break the law. However, the Bible says that you must daily pick up your cross and die daily. Again, who is right?

The Westminster says, "no man is able" but the Word of God says, "ye are able". Who is right?

[b]BIBLE SAYS:[/b]

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things become new." 2 Cor. 5:17

"And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense towards God and toward men." Acts 14:16

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." 1 Jn. 2:3

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." 1 Cor. 10:13

"And he said to them all, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily, and follow me." Lk. 9:23

"I die daily" 1 Cor. 15:31

In conclusion, Creeds & Confessions in general are suspect to error, because they are inspired writings. They end up to be, more or less, "Biblical cliches" which in themselves are not in the Bible.

 2008/9/9 23:05Profile

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