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 Re:

Two more great posts. Kathleen and Christian have made excellent contributions to this thread. My heart is warmed by the knowledge of good brothers and siters out there who have a thirst and desire for the majesty of God and the centrality of Calvary. It is this desire to see God worshipped in reverence and majesty and in the beauty of His Holiness and to see death to self which may give birth to the new reformation the church so desperately needs.......Frank

 2008/8/20 11:38
adamdawkins
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Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 140


 Re:

Quote:
One thing that I’ve pondered about the current generation; both professing christians and those who make no such claim. There seems to be a need for continuous stimulation; be it comedy, music, pseudo news, (”pseudo, because the real news, few could handle) and continuous fabricated storylines. Folks have cell phones and are in contact with others constantly.



This challenged me a lot.

I fear that sometimes my zeal [i]against[/i] what is so obviously wrong, and zeal for seeing the truth established often outweighs my desire to simply spend time in the Lord's presence.

May I recall my first love.

 2008/8/20 12:50Profile









 Re:

You said it brother, may we all recall our first love. All who are following this thread, please see the "New Reformation," thread, I think the two have merged, praise God.

 2008/8/20 14:47
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: What fire has the younger generation acquired

This has got to be one of the most ... penetrating posts that has ever graced us here. Find it almost a disservice to excerpt parts from the whole, forgive me ...

Quote:
I wrote a post a few months ago called “Faith is in the silence.” Seems like this generation, young and old, are terrified of silence. The next time I get a chance to share anything from any pulpit(who knows when that would be) I can see myself just standing there and saying nothing. Then, after about 30 seconds, the people start to get restless, then after 2 minutes there would be extreme discomfort. People have been raised with constant stimulation. It goes along side an indulgent people who have to be continually gratified, at least at the five senses level, which is where I think the problem lies.



Will have to find that brother, this is a matter that I do not know can be overstressed. It brought to mind some older considerations;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22141&forum=34]Congregational Silence ~ Max Reich[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22780&forum=36]THE SECRET OF TRANQUILLITY[/url]

kathleen1, your words are piercing and tremendous, Brothertom, Robert, Christian ... brother Frank ... All. Thank you. It all seems to be very timely and hitting particularly strong in present circumstances.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/8/21 0:24Profile









 Re:

Mike writes......

"This has got to be one of the most..penetrating posts that has ever graced us here."

That word, penetrating, I sat up and took notice of that. A couple of months ago I wrote a peice called "Stabbed in the Heart."

http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com/?s=stabbed+in+the+heart

The post was about the true nature of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as seen in Acts 2:37. It says about the crowd who Peter had just shared the Gospel with " And hearing this, they were stabbed in the heart, and said to Peter and to the other apostles, Men, brothers, what shall we do? " This phrase, "stabbed in the heart," is from the greek word "Katanusso," which means to violently penetrate or agitate the heart.

We are living in a day when we need a generation of people who have this gift, the gift of being able to "katanusso," as they speak to the unsaved. As God draws His people out and away from that which passes for church, away from shallow religion, pseudo fellowship, and worship that is merely noise, and draws them to Himself, I believe we will start to see people move in this power. We may not hear something different(the Word of God never changes) but it will be shared with the power to violently agitate, to penetrate, the hard hearts of the listeners, until they cry out "what must we do to be saved," or perhaps that common phrase in the Lewis revival "Is there mercy for me." Praise God, there was mercy for all who cried out to God.

On the flip side brothers and sisters, when one moves with this kind of power from the Holy Spirit, there is also the opposite reaction. That powerful word that violently pnetrates the hard hearted, also can create a violent reaction from those who resist the Lord. The disciples found that out, as did countless of thousands of saints down through the ages. So the question is, "are we willing to move in this kind of power?" Most of know that the greek word for witness is also equated with the word "martyr." There is a cost to be paid for this kind of walk. Praise God, judging by this thread and reactions from brothers and sisters from all around the country and from different countries, God is raising up ans seperating a group of people who are no longer satisfied to just play church. This is a group of people who are hungry and thirsty for the things of God.

When the sacrifice is placed on the alter, when the false religionists fail in their attemps to move God's hand(aquire the fire generation, much noise and activity) it is then that the fire of God falls and consumes the sacrifice.

And it happened at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, Elijah the prophet came near and said, Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that You are God in Israel, and that I am Your servant, and that I have done all these things at Your Word.
1Ki 18:37 Hear me, O Jehovah, hear me, that this people may know that You are Jehovah God, and that You have turned their heart back again.
1Ki 18:38 And the fire of Jehovah fell and burned up the burnt sacrifice and the wood, and the stones and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
1Ki 18:39 And when all the people saw, they fell on their faces. And they said, Jehovah, He is the God! Jehovah, He is the God!

You see what is happening? Elijah in the midst of an unfriendly crowd, unashamedly decalring the truth of God, just exactly the same as Peter was doing after Pentecost. They both had the same result, the fire of God fell and the people fell on their faces, acknowleging the true and the living God who is a consuming fire.

In the heart of the man and woman of God there burns a fire, a passion, a thirst, for the things of God. He or she cannot remain unmoved in the midst of a perverse generation. So all those who long for the presence of God, who hunger and thirst are being called out and the Lord is preparing them to walk in the same Spirit as Elijah, as Peter, and yes as dear brother Stephen. I praise God for the Spirit that is striing amongst His people..........Frank

 2008/8/21 9:29
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
When the sacrifice is placed on the alter, when the false religionists fail in their attemps to move God's hand(aquire the fire generation, much noise and activity) it is then that the fire of God falls and consumes the sacrifice.

..........

You see what is happening? Elijah in the midst of an unfriendly crowd, unashamedly decalring the truth of God, just exactly the same as Peter was doing after Pentecost. They both had the same result, the fire of God fell and the people fell on their faces, acknowleging the true and the living God who is a consuming fire.



What was it about Elijah that God answered him by FIRE? Think of how Elijah felt all alone as the only person still serving God. What did the landscape of people look like? there has always been, so it seems, those that 'thought' they had the Spirit. What was it about Elijah that God heard and answered him?


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/8/21 10:31Profile
PassingThru
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Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Quote:
The reality is electricity is often taking the place of the power of God.


Quote:
I think that the old timers frowned on a lot of things (instruments, media, etc.) that we have today because they could see the dangers. I have heard folk chide them for their strictness, but now I'm not so sure they were not more right than we may be willing to admit.



I did some reading on the Amish this week and was impressed with how relevant their measures to keep the world out of their lives is today.

PassingThru

 2008/8/21 10:49Profile
adamdawkins
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Joined: 2006/11/13
Posts: 140


 Re:

Quote:
I did some reading on the Amish this week and was impressed with how relevant their measures to keep the world out of their lives is today.



Could you give some examples?

 2008/8/21 11:05Profile
PassingThru
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Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

@adamdawkins

I don't know any Amish, nor how well their communties are doing, but what I find interesting are the reasons behind the measures that the Amish take. The "Look before you leap" principle of thoroughly evaluating the full impact of whatever new aspect they accept into their lives would have saved a lot of churches and people from deception and grief.

An excerpt from an article found here:
[url=http://www.shawcreekgeneralstore.com/amish_article1.htm]http://www.shawcreekgeneralstore.com/amish_article1.htm[/url]

[color=005500]The most important factor of Amish life is Gelassenheit, or submission to the will of God. Gelassenheit is based primarily on Jesus' words, "not my will but thine be done."16 By giving up individuality and any thought of selfishness, they embrace God's will by serving others and submitting to Him. To the Amish, Gelassenheit is seen in all of the following aspects of Amish life:

Personality: reserved, modest, calm, quiet
Values: submission, obedience, humility, simplicity
Symbols: dress, horse, carriage, lantern
Structure: small, informal, local, decentralized
Ritual: baptism, confession, ordination, foot-washing

** Excerpted from Kraybill, Donald. The Riddle of Amish Culture. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins UP, 1989, p.26.

The Amish feel that Gelassenheit should permeate every facet of their existence, and even be apparent in their material possessions. Consequently, they will only selectively use modern technologies. As seen in the symbols of Gelassenheit, the Amish believe that using lanterns and the buggies typifies their lifestyle of simplicity and modesty. Any technology that does not uphold the Gelassenheit principles is banned from use. Electricity is seen as a connection with the outside world and violates the Amish principle of separation from society. Electricity also promotes the use of household items, such as the television, that allow the outside, "English," values of sloth, luxury, and vanity to infiltrate the household. Automobiles are not often used because they degrade the Gelassenheit principle of a small, close-knit community. The Amish fear, with good reason, that these modern transportation technologies will cause them to spread apart, much like most modern American families. Also, the Amish fear that the automobile will promote competition among themselves. They worry that the car will become a status symbol and promote vanity, which is in direct violation of the Gelassenheit value of modesty. The telephone is banned from the household because, much like the automobile, it promotes a separation of community. Instead of taking a carriage or walking to a friend's house, the Amish feel that they would be tempted to simply stay home and speak on the phone. In order to uphold Gelassenheit, many modern technologies have been banned from regular use.[/color]

 2008/8/21 14:29Profile









 Re: Amish fire in the youth

I am no expert on Amish life, to say the least. I do know that the Amish have a practice of relinquishing their children over to the youth group, to decide for themselves whether or not to become a member of the "Amish", Church. The children who are turned over to these groups, are allowed to sow their wild oats, so to speak, in all manner of anarchy and rebellion, with no determined consequences from their church, or parents. Sexual immorality is rampant, as is drug use, loads of alcohol and any form of worldliness.


This wildness usually lasts a few years, and then the children must decide to become a standing member of their Amish church,and adhere to the rules and disciplines of it, or to stay out, and be an outsider. It is very strange and foreign to all other forms of institutional protestism. Many children have committed suicide after this experience, and deep psychological scars are inflicted from this practice. To me, it is almost akin to turning your children over to the devil, to see if they will survive.


Gellassenheit is simply an ancient Anabaptist expression meaning total submission, implying an absolute devotion to the consuming fires of God, in every orb of life. Probably, most of the Amish churches are simply cultural, and devoid of the Holy Spirit. They are highly legalistic, and if you do not line up, you will be excommunicated before you can say, "GELLASSENHEIT!" they are very high on Church leadership, and dress codes. Women are very , very oppressed, and commanded submission and silence. They make good pies, and are good mothers. It seems they get a lot of practice at that. It is not uncommon to see a family of 14....not a typo...14 is common.


I'm sure there is an Amish or Mennonite brother here on the forum, who could fill in the blanks. Please forgive my feeble attempt to assess the youth in this culture, but I hit on the obvious points that an outsider would see. I have heard the testimonies of many Amish youth who became saved, and boy, do they take off! They have everything else in place..and when Jesus comes...they fly.


However, the Amish church as it is does a very poor job of nurturing their youth, or directing them to serve Jesus in Holy fire.


 2008/8/21 15:19





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