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PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I am torn brother, it is both weary and yet concerning, wonder at who may be yet peering into these things ... the need to warn and maybe more just the need to ... weep.


Oh yes, dear brother, we must be concerned. We must absolutely be. I just feel this whole circus spectacle has been given far more media attention than it deserves. Jimmy is right about it being like a prolonged Benny Hinn meeting. Great point you made about the resurrections in the NT being unavoidably real and witnessed by and large by the [i]unbelievers en masse[/i]. Think, for instance, of the widow's son during the funeral procession in Nain (as a mortician, this account is particularly dear to me, my heart leaps with joy) Lazarus being raised amidst the scrutiny of the spies dispatched from Jerusalem, Jairus' daughter despite the mourners mocking.

Why are all the current "resurrections" we see and hear of today the total opposite - for the most part they are hidden, secretive, highly dubious and unsubstantiated by media and/or any neutral or irrelgious third party? It is one thing to propagate the fantastical on AM talk radio, UFO sightings, Elvis Presley's ghost, stigmata [i]ad nauseum[/i], but as mature believers I think we need to get to a place where we are not so readily swayed, swooned and separated by these ostensible occurences...especially given the spiritually unsavoury and unscriptural circumstances by which they are framed.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/7/4 13:08Profile
wta
Member



Joined: 2007/4/8
Posts: 68
Canadian in America (Bremerton, WA) "A stranger in a strange land..."

 Re:

I've mentioned that I personally don't support the Lakeland happenings. It has come to my attention that there is documentation of people being raised from the dead. My question is relating to whether satan can raise the dead. Other signs and wonders I am familiar with but raising the dead was a new one.
For Chris's comments, he made some over the top, unsupported claims about David Hogan and it was at that point I got concerned. His claims where unsupported and very wrong. I know David Hogans's ministry personally as I am a long time friend with one ot the section commanders in Mexico. I have been there personally and have person proof of teh authenticity of that ministry. So basically he was taking shots at friends with no evidence and I took it personally. It's hard to be humble and irritated at the same time so my words may have come out askewed.
So it became comical when enin posted his need for scripture, the bible and so on to be used but in his post there was none, lol. It stuck me funny.
Do I have an agenda, no. My question is related to the history of revival and scripture and if satan has raised the dead in Jesus name. Seemed like a valid thread to start but I could be wrong, it's happened before. LOL...

All for souls,

wta


_________________
William Thomas Anderson

 2008/7/4 13:14Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4526


 Re:

Hi wta...

Quote:
For Chris's comments, he made some over the top, unsupported claims about David Hogan and it was at that point I got concerned. His claims where unsupported and very wrong. I know David Hogans's ministry personally as I am a long time friend with one ot the section commanders in Mexico. I have been there personally and have person proof of teh authenticity of that ministry. So basically he was taking shots at friends with no evidence and I took it personally. It's hard to be humble and irritated at the same time so my words may have come out askewed.

Over the top?

I mentioned that David Hogan claims that he raised 500 people from the dead. I simply questioned how he has done this without anyone outside of his little circle having heard it?

Have you investigated the claims that David Hogan has raised over 500 people from the dead? Have you investigated 50 of those claims? 10? Even 1? Then why is it wrong for me to question the validity of his claims?

I have attended an entire campaign of David Hogan meetings at a congregation that I formerly attended. Besides the obvious departures from Scripture at those meetings (which are a pretty good indication that something is wrong), it was the first time that I was ever "pushed down" at a meeting. After David Hogan instructed the congregation to line up on the stage and in the front of the building, he explained what happens EVERY TIME he prays for people. They fall down, feel fire, see visions, get healed, etc etc... If a person doesn't "fall down on God's operating table," Hogan explains that they are "fighting the Holy Ghost."

When the time came in which I was wrangled unto the stage with the people in my row of seats, Hogan was knocking people in the heads left and right. He kept shouting, "FIRE FIRE FIRE" at the top of his lungs (he said that he even lost his voice one night, but he blamed it on "the devil"). When he prayed for me, two of his helpers (he called them "bodyguards") were standing behind me. He shouted, pushed forcefully upon my head, while one man pushed the base of my back forward while the other pulled my shoulders back. I fell...due to the group effort of Hogan and his men. Of course, the others in the congregation just clapped that their dear brother Chris was "slain in the spirit."

What bothers me most about David Hogan, Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, etc... is that so many believers are upset when someone questions their claims. WTA, you claimed that I made "unsubstantiated claims" about David Hogan? Really? Which "claims?"

Is the truth of the matter that these sort of men -- like David Hogan and Todd Bently -- are actually the individuals guilty of making unsubstantiated claims? Where is the proof to validate their claims of raising the dead or even healing the sick?

Let me make this clear: I believe in miracles and healings. I am even what most would call a "pentecostal" believer. I have seen and experienced things that I hesitate to ever write here less it rob God of the glory that He and He alone deserve. I just don't think we should repeat the stories of men who have not validated those stories. It is possible that even these claims might end up being less than truthful.

I have a friend whose mother suffered from a medical condition. My friend's father was a Presbyterian minister, and quite closed to anything outside the realm of his denomination. This minister's wife (my friend's mother) was quite the charismatic. She actually considered herself a "Presbycostal." She went from meeting to meeting, bookstore to bookstore and "revival" to "revival." Eventually, this led her to a Benny Hinn crusade. I remember watching (on television) the moment when she was supposedly "healed." Benny Hinn proclaimed to her through a "word from God" that her sickness was completely gone and would not return. Six months later, she died. Why? She stopped taking her medication. She took Benny Hinn's message to heart: "God's people should never be sick!" Unfortunately, this message helped to kill her. Her husband became extremely closed to any sort of non-Presbyterian ideas and her son (my friend) stopped attending Church altogether for quite some time.

Ironically, my friend's mother testified everywhere that she went that she was healed. She spoke about "feeling fire" as she was prayed for. After she died, I've often wondered if the "fire" that she felt was simply the flush of emotions while she stood on stage in front of the people putting her faith on trial. Or perhaps the "fire" that she felt was actually her overwhelming desire to please God and believe Benny Hinn (and the health/wealth doctrine) at the same time.

I also know stories about people who claimed to have experienced the supernatural who later recanted their story. I have heard many who were "slain in the spirit" who later admitted that they fell down under their own power (or were pushed). I've seen people who supposedly received gold fillings -- only to later admit that they received those gold fillings from the dentists (and not the Holy Ghost as they had claimed). I've heard stories of people who claimed to have seen visions, had dreams, or looked at demons who later admitted to having made up their stories (although they contended that they were still "honest" people).

In fact, I once knew a family who had a supernatural tale of a child being raised from the dead! Like this YouTube "28th Dead Raised Todd Bentley" video (that is the title of that video), a dentist in the Church that I attended when I was a teen shortly after coming to Christ told the testimony of his son being raised from the dead. This dentist's son had fallen into the pool and couldn't swim. The story went that he fell in the pool and sank to the bottom. While laying at the bottom, he saw three angels (two women and a man). One of the female angels told him, "Don't worry: Your mother is coming." The last thing he remembers is seeing his mom come to the top of the pool before he blacked out.

He supposedly woke up in the hospital to his family in tears. They testified in Church at how the little boy had been underwater for 20 minutes! When his mother saw him in the pool, she told another son to call 9-1-1. She jumped in and pulled him out of the water where she says that she didn't feel a pulse. She attempted to perform CPR. The paramedics arrived within two minutes (the vehicle was less than three blocks away). They immediately pulled the young boy into the ambulance and made their way to the hospital (about 3/4 mile away). As soon as the family made it to the hospital, the little boy was just waking up.

Was this little boy really "raised from the dead?"

This story used to make me feel "warm and fuzzy" after I first came to the Lord. I repeated the story to believers and unbelievers alike. It usually served to make the believers excited and the unbelievers nervous. As a teen, I used to visit the hospital quite often. I would tell that story as an example of God's limitless power to perform the miraculous. One day, I spoke to a doctor -- who happened to be the same guy who helped the young boy. After hearing the story, he seemed puzzled. He asked me the name of the family. When I told him, this doctor just smiled and said, "Well, I wouldn't say that he was 'dead.' He just wasn't breathing for a while." He then explained that he was the emergency room doctor on the scene that day. The doctor explained that he was also a Christian, but that I should be careful when spreading something that might be less than honest.

Why would this family claim a "miracle" that wasn't entirely true?

A few years later, the dentist and his wife separated. The dentist, who was an elder at the Church, was caught cheating on his wife. They tried to work things out, but it was getting worse. Not only was the dentist cheating, but he was dabbling with Christian Science (Scientology). The family suffered tremendously and the parents finally divorced. A couple of years later, the young boy who was "raised from the dead" was arrested (twice) for stealing cars. After serving time at a "boot camp" for underage offenders, he eventually began attending a gym where I used to go and play tennis.

One day, I asked him about his "raised from the dead" story. He admitted that much of the story was embellished. While he assured me that he indeed fell into a swimming pool, he told me that he made up the part about the angels. He also said that he didn’t know if he was underwater for one minute or five minutes. He thinks that the “twenty minutes under water” thing really came from the fact that his mom admitted to not having seen him for twenty minutes. But he said that he was playing with his toys in the back yard beside the pool. He only fell into the pool when one of his toys accidently fell in and he tried to reach for it.

This young man said that he felt guilty for exaggerating the story about how long he had been in the water and his supposed “vision” of three angels. When I asked him why he made it up, he said, “Well, I guess that it was what everyone wanted to hear.” Since he was no longer attending Church, praying or reading his Bible, this young man explained that he should probably come clean about it all. He also admitted that he has never really been “slain in the spirit” even though he fell down nearly every time a minister prayed for him between the ages of 5 and 15. After confessing his deceptions, he had thought about the significance of it all. But then he said, “I guess it doesn’t really matter anymore, does it?” I assured him that Jesus was still available for him, and that God could do far more than anything that he or his family could ever exaggerate. He left asking me to pray for him (and he moved with his mom after a short time).

Why am I saying all of this? Please do not mistake my words for biased cynicism. If I am biased, it is only because I desire to see the Lord lifted up in truth. I am exceedingly fed up with “men of God” who make wild, exciting and bold claims about the supernatural occurrences that follow them – but offer little in terms of proof. The only thing worse than unsubstantiated claims is the fact that some people look at any sort of questioning of those claims as a personal attack on the man.

Please understand: I am not attacking David Hogan, Todd Bentley or Benny Hinn. Rather, I am examining their claims. I am calling upon them to show some concrete proof that would substantiate that their claims are more than just pompous claims meant to validate their status as “men of God.” David Hogan, during his meetings, always rejected any sort of doubt about his status as an “apostle of God” and warned that such doubt is evil. Instead, David Hogan strutted upon the stage in his cowboy boots, cowboy hat, uttering the occasional profanity while warning people from questioning his status as “the man of God.” Every meeting that I attended with Mr. Hogan, I couldn’t stop thinking about the Scripture, “[i]God opposes the proud…[/i]” (James 4:6) and “[i]Test everything…[/i]” (I Thessalonians 5:21). It doesn’t seem like these are encouraged at any of these sort of meetings.

I have traveled throughout Mexico numerous times to assist in building and evangelism programs with well established missionaries and pastors. When I have brought up David Hogan, the response has always been one of two things: A.) I’ve never heard of him. –or— B.) He is a liar. Does this mean that David Hogan is a phony? No. But it doesn’t mean that he is NOT a phony either. It just means that there are ministers in Mexico who have never heard of the guy…and there are well-established, humble pastors and missionaries who think that Mr. Hogan is a phony. While I believe that it is imperative that I do not simply believe his claims just because he makes those claims – my biggest issues with David Hogan dealt mainly with the things that he preached. Yet I found it ironic that every single “message” that he preached to our congregation contained many more tales of the supernatural than they did Scripture or even doctrine. From his story of talking with a big owl, to being chased by Satan (who opened and closed the Church gate like a nice gentleman), I felt that David Hogan was a typical prosperity/authoritarian preacher who accentuated the little that he preached with wild, unsubstantiated tales of the supernatural (which consisted of around 80-95% of his nightly messages).

Is it wrong to realize that “all men are liars?” Is it wrong to not accept stories that are unsubstantiated? Is this the extent of my “over the top claims” made about David Hogan? Please read my initial comment one more time:
Quote:
How many preachers do we need to hear who tell tales of raising the dead? Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, David Hogan, et al. -- they all claim to have raised the dead (I think that Hogan claims that he has raised over 500 from the dead). But are the dead really being raised?

For some odd reason, I am under the impression that such a thing would make FRONT PAGE NEWS on our major newspapers! In Mexico (where David Hogan supposedly performs his "miracles"), the media covers any story of the supernatural. If a spot on a tortilla even remotely resembles the image of a man or woman -- the newspapers, radio stations and television stations cover it for weeks! Yet we can't find a single documented case of the dead being raised in any of the Mexican newspapers. Hmmm.

The same is true with other claims of the dead being raised. Benny Hinn has never documented one of these cases. In fact, I don't know if any of his supposed "healings" have ever been substantiated by medical support.

What about all of the claims of healing, slayings in the spirit, etc...? Don't they mean something?

I have seen individuals who claimed to have received "gold fillings" during certain revival meetings -- only to later confess that they were lying. Oh yes...they did have gold fillings. But these were placed there by dentists and not the Holy Spirit.

We really need to follow the instructions of I Thessalonians 5:21 and TEST EVERYTHING in such matters. I certainly believe in miracles. And I do believe that the devil can (and will) counterfeit miracles. But I find much of what is claimed to be "miraculous" by Charismatic circles to be a tad bit suspicious (to say the least). We need to compare those claims by the purity found in the Word of God. But if a supposed "miracle" places the focus upon a man, a ministry, a church, or even a "revival" rather than complete and total emphasis (along with the fear of the Lord) upon our Lord -- then something is undoubtedly wrong.


WTA, I don’t mean anything personal by this. And I certainly don't mean this as a personal attack on David Hogan. Rather, I have very real issues with the doctrine that he preaches and the unsubstantiated claims that he makes. However, you brought up a thread that questions the validity of some supposed “dead raising” in Lakeland. You’re right in that I couldn’t fully watch the entire video. My wife and I currently live out in the country and can only access dial-up. I tried to view the entire video, but it timed out after just a short time. But I saw enough to feel uncomfortable in my inner man concerning those claims.

Longing to know Him and see His face,
-Chris


_________________
Christopher

 2008/7/4 14:51Profile
wta
Member



Joined: 2007/4/8
Posts: 68
Canadian in America (Bremerton, WA) "A stranger in a strange land..."

 Re:

ccchhhrrriiisss,

So you repeat your attacks on David Hogan again with no evidence whatsoever? You call him a liar? You say he claims to have raised 500 people from the dead and he's a liar? David Hogan has NEVER said to anyone ever that he has raised 500 people from the dead. So who's the liar. I KNOW what he said, again because I am personally involved and made an exsastive effort to prove his ministry to be fact or fiction.
I did investigate a case of a person being raised from the dead, personllay in Mexico. I PERSONALLY went all the way to Mexico and inteviewed the family of the person.
You said in your last post that "all your doing is calling these people to prove themselves" when in reality all you're doing is posting your conjecture on a thread on the internet...
My concern is that a person can post anything they want on a public forum with no accountability whatsoever. This is just reckless.
Do you love Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, David Hogan? You are commanded by the Lord to and yet your posts it seems clear that you don't or would you say such things in a public forum about confessed brothers of Christ. At the very least you would present some from of evidence.
Now Chris, understand that I truly love you and them, I really do. I understand how you feel on this subject as I feel in general the same way, believe me, you don't know that I am a Christian journalist and I worked for a major Christian news ministry and investigated many of the people you mentioned and some you haven't. David Hogan just happens to one you're wrong about and I'm trying to lovingly tell you and if I have to I can obtain the documentation that will prove what David Hogan says about how many people he has prayed for that were raised from the dead. You will be embarresed at how wrong you are with your facts.
When writing or speaking publically you must speak all things in love and they must be true otherwise it's backbitting and gossip.

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

So if I may, back to the question...

Can satan raise the dead? If not then what would that mean of a ministry that had authenic documention that someone was raised from the dead by direct involvment of that ministry?"

All for souls,

wta


_________________
William Thomas Anderson

 2008/7/4 15:51Profile
sermonindex
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Posts: 37576
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
Oh yes, dear brother, we must be concerned. We must absolutely be. I just feel this whole circus spectacle has been given far more media attention than it deserves.


The grevious reason for this dear brother is that we have not seen a genuine revival in so long or ever and people truly want to see something genuine. But sadly also this is evidence of the judgement of God on America worse then plagues, earthquakes, etc, the severest judgement of God is on the Church with false prophets, teachings and spurious signs and wonders that do not bring glory to Christ.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2008/7/4 16:31Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4526


 Re:

Hi wta…

Quote:

So you repeat your attacks on David Hogan again with no evidence whatsoever? You call him a liar?


Brother, are you reading between the lines here? Did I “attack” David Hogan? Did I specifically call him a liar? Could you point this out to me? Rather, I called into question his claims. I also pointed out that ALL MEN are liars (including you and me) when compared to the only Truth – our Lord Jesus Christ! Since when did calling into question the claims of someone constitute an “attack” upon a person?
Quote:

David Hogan has NEVER said to anyone ever that he has raised 500 people from the dead. So who's the liar. I KNOW what he said, again because I am personally involved and made an exsastive effort to prove his ministry to be fact or fiction.
I did investigate a case of a person being raised from the dead, personllay in Mexico. I PERSONALLY went all the way to Mexico and inteviewed the family of the person.
You said in your last post that "all your doing is calling these people to prove themselves" when in reality all you're doing is posting your conjecture on a thread on the internet...

Brother, all I can do is repeat what I have heard him say. At the meetings he held in our congregation, he boasted about having the power to have raised hundreds of people from the dead. Whether or not this is 2 or 200 or 900 – the point is that he claims to have raised hundreds from the dead. You even admit that you traveled down to Mexico to validate those claims. Would you care sharing that information with others? Would you mind providing the names and locations of those people raised from the dead so we can pass this along to people in Mexico for further validation? Perhaps someone we know could speak with the individual “raised from the dead” and his family, doctors, etc…? Questioning these things is not posting my “conjecture on a thread on the internet.” It is simply questioning the soundness and weight of the claims coming from a man who preaches strange doctrines and extra-Biblical accounts of the supernatural. Did you hear his tale about talking with an owl (which is already conveniently viewed with suspicion by people in Mexico) or being chased by Satan himself through a village?
Quote:

[b]My concern is that a person can post anything they want on a public forum with no accountability whatsoever. This is just reckless.[/b]


Wow! This is EXACTLY how I feel! This is what I feel that David Hogan is doing! He offers strange supernatural tales – while he and his followers scorn those who question his stories! Talk about NO ACCOUNTABILITY!!! Do you not see the hypocrisy in this statement?
Quote:

Do you love Todd Bentley, Benny Hinn, David Hogan? You are commanded by the Lord to and yet your post reveals that you surly don't or you would never say such things in a public forum about confessed brothers of Christ. At the very least you would present some from of evidence.

Again, brother, I think that you are guilty of reading between the lines. It is not an act of hate to question someone’s claims. The Bereans did this with Paul – and it was considered “noble.” Consider Acts 17:11…
Quote:

“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

Unfortunately, this doesn’t remind me of what I saw with David Hogan. David Hogan warned the congregation against doubting his stories or his authority. In fact, David Hogan went so far as to say that those who didn’t fall down upon “God operating table” were “fighting the Holy Ghost!” It reminds me of all of the warnings at a Rodney Howard Brown meeting that those who “neglect the wine of the Spirit will not get drunk.” Thus, anyone who isn’t acting drunk must be “neglecting the wine of the Spirit.”
Quote:

Now Chris, understand that I truly love you and them, I really do. I understand how you feel on this subject as I feel in general the same way, believe me, you don't know that I am a Christian journalist and I worked for a major Christian news ministry and investigated many of the people you mentioned and some you haven't.


Brother, please understand that I love them with the same love for which I am commended to love all men. I wouldn’t write these things out of selfish adulation or hatred. In fact, if I hated these men, it would be much easier to remain silent. Yet even now, I do not attack these men. I think that you need to distinguish the difference between attacking a man and ascertaining truth behind what a man says. How many times have we heard some authoritarian preacher claim that the prohibition about “touching God’s anointed” extends to not questioning the validity of his doctrines, teachings, or lifestyle?

As a journalist, you should realize that the first rule of journalistic integrity is to avoid becoming a part of the story. Sadly, this is missing in many news outlets. The media reports from a slant. They have become a part of the story because they fail to distinguish their thoughts and opinions from what they report as truth. We should be made of sterner stuff. When we make a statement, we should endeavor to tell the truth – regardless of what that truth is.
Quote:

David Hogan just happens to one you're wrong about and I'm trying to lovingly tell you and if I have to I can obtain the documentation that will prove what David Hogan says about how many people he has prayed for that were raised from the dead. You will be embarresed at how wrong you are with your facts.
When writing or speaking publically you must speak all things in love and they must be true otherwise it's backbitting and gossip.

I would appreciate these “documents.” I have many friends who are pastors and missionaries in Mexico. Perhaps they could look into these things themselves? But I am also wondering: Did you ever hear of anyone associated with David Hogan who had something less-than-glorious to say about him? Did your research lead you to speak with any of these people? Did you agree with the doctrines that he preached? Did you make a list of his supernatural tales and scrutinize it by the purity of the Word of God? Do you understand that when I call into question a doctrinal statement or supernatural claim of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons or members of SermonIndex – that this is not the same as an “attack,” “backbiting” and/or “gossip?”
Quote:

So if I may, back to the question. Can satan raise the dead?

I think that the first question that we need to ask is whether the dead were even raised to begin with. THEN we could move on to your question.

The danger in all of this, as Greg mentioned, is that we might accept a counterfeit rather than hold out for what is real. We are so easily satisfied by tales of the supernatural, that we often lose sight of God.

All for Jesus…
-Chris
John 3:30


_________________
Christopher

 2008/7/4 16:56Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote:
So if I may, back to the question. Can satan raise the dead?



So if one could answer this in the negative, would this validate Bentley's ministry? Jesus instructs us to be fruit inspectors which means one must look at the whole before making an evaluation. If any part is sorely lacking it would contaminate the entire thing.

Miracles, including the raising of the dead, do not validate any ministry.

May I suggest you reevaluate your love affair with the miraculous and see what happens. For example, if there were no reports of any miracles connected with Bentley, what would you think of the man and his ministry?




_________________
Sandra Miller

 2008/7/4 17:21Profile
wta
Member



Joined: 2007/4/8
Posts: 68
Canadian in America (Bremerton, WA) "A stranger in a strange land..."

 Re:

Chris,

I'm perplexed. What are your motives for posting to this forum to "call into question" the validity of David Hogan's ministry. What are you hoping to gain from this? Your words and phrasing are giving me as a reader the impression that you feel David Hogan is a liar and fake. Is this what you think? On what facts do you base you opinion? Is he guilty until proven innocent?

Now if you were really concerned why wouldn't you just do what I did and contact the ministry and go down and see the witnesses yourself? If you are prepared to do that please feel free to pm me and I'll give you the contact information and you can go to the "source" with whom you have the questions and call into question all your concerns. I would be blessed to help with that. PM me and let me know...

The last report I got was that bro. David has seen about 30 people who he has prayed for raised from the dead to which he gives full credit to the Lord Jesus. He also says that he's prayed for WAY more that didn't. Freedom Ministies, including all the missionaries and local leaders have in total over 30+ years in Mexico seen about 500 raised from the dead. These are the facts as reported by Freedom Ministries.

I didn't log onto this forum to confirm or deny the authenticity of David Hogan's ministry and I am now finished discussing this issure on this forum, if any would like to learn more please feel free to pm me.

SI Readers,

I am asking the question relating to current or past revivals if satan has ever raised the dead. I've read many opinions which I agree with that satan can do signs which can lead people into a false revival that is not of God. The question I'm wrestling with is what happens when someone is authentically raised from the dead. There is the issue of authenicity yes, of course. What should be required as documentation to prove a person is raised from the dead. If this isn't clearly defined then every claim can be thrown out as false...

Mat 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Would raising the dead be considered a sign and wonder referred to by Jesus in the above verse?

In all the time of studing revival and church history it never (until the posting of this thread) occured to me that "raising the dead" may be one a way to authenicate a move of God. Maybe not...
Thoughts?

ginnyrose,

You should really read the thread before posting. I don't have a "love affair" with signs and wonders or Todd Bentley. This is a doctrinal question.

All for souls,

wta


_________________
William Thomas Anderson

 2008/7/4 17:32Profile
JoanM
Member



Joined: 2008/4/7
Posts: 797


 Re:

Revelation 13:3?

 2008/7/4 17:52Profile
wta
Member



Joined: 2007/4/8
Posts: 68
Canadian in America (Bremerton, WA) "A stranger in a strange land..."

 Re:

Quote:

JoanM wrote:
Revelation 13:3?



Yes, a good text. I had considered it...

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.
Rev 13:4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"

The challenge is the reference to "head". My commentaries and reference manuals agree that this head is not a "person" but a form of government or a governent or better stated a "group" of people. This therefore would not support the idea that satan raises the dead.

Mmmm...

I would like to state again for the record I am not looking for a way to authenticate Lakeland as at this point I don't believe it is authentic revival. That is my opinion at this time based on what I have learned.
In hind sight I could have done better to have left Lakeland out of the equation and just asked the question "Does satan raise the dead". It just happened that the idea did come from watching a report given by Todd Bentley on God TV from the revival.

wta


_________________
William Thomas Anderson

 2008/7/4 18:07Profile





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