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wta
Member



Joined: 2007/4/8
Posts: 68
Canadian in America (Bremerton, WA) "A stranger in a strange land..."

 satan raises the dead in Jesus name in Lakeland...

satan raises the dead in Jesus name in Lakeland...

?!

Now I'm having to do a double take on this. Lakeland is not something that I've concluded to be of God. In fact I've got a list of reasons why it's not of God. Now it's documented by several witnesses that a boy in Lakeland was dead for about fifteen minutes from a swimming accident and that satan raised the dead boy in Jesus name? SOMETHING IS NOT ADDING UP here.

OK I've read how Lakeland is powered by satan so that's the connection...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtrpMkcFVDM


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William Thomas Anderson

 2008/7/4 4:11Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4526


 Re: satan raises the dead in Jesus name in Lakeland...

Hi wta...

How many preachers do we need to hear who tell tales of raising the dead? Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, David Hogan, et al. -- they all claim to have raised the dead (I think that Hogan claims that he has raised over 500 from the dead). But are the dead really being raised?

For some odd reason, I am under the impression that such a thing would make FRONT PAGE NEWS on our major newspapers! In Mexico (where David Hogan supposedly performs his "miracles"), the media covers any story of the supernatural. If a spot on a tortilla even remotely resembles the image of a man or woman -- the newspapers, radio stations and television stations cover it for weeks! Yet we can't find a single documented case of the dead being raised in any of the Mexican newspapers. Hmmm.

The same is true with other claims of the dead being raised. Benny Hinn has never documented one of these cases. In fact, I don't know if any of his supposed "healings" have ever been substantiated by medical support.

What about all of the claims of healing, slayings in the spirit, etc...? Don't they mean something?

I have seen individuals who claimed to have received "gold fillings" during certain revival meetings -- only to later confess that they were lying. Oh yes...they did have gold fillings. But these were placed there by dentists and not the Holy Spirit.

We really need to follow the instructions of I Thessalonians 5:21 and TEST EVERYTHING in such matters. I certainly believe in miracles. And I do believe that the devil can (and will) counterfeit miracles. But I find much of what is claimed to be "miraculous" by Charismatic circles to be a tad bit suspicious (to say the least). We need to compare those claims by the purity found in the Word of God. But if a supposed "miracle" places the focus upon a man, a ministry, a church, or even a "revival" rather than complete and total emphasis (along with the fear of the Lord) upon our Lord -- then something is undoubtedly wrong.

:-(


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Christopher

 2008/7/4 5:13Profile
wta
Member



Joined: 2007/4/8
Posts: 68
Canadian in America (Bremerton, WA) "A stranger in a strange land..."

 Re:

Just a couple of questions ccchhhrrriiisss if I may. But first I would like to humbly mention my extensive background in researching modern and ancient revival, church history and our Father's word relating to scripture. I am a recognized overseer in His body and gifted in teaching, pastoring and evangelism...

1 - Did you watch the video I pasted in the original post? I have to assume you didn't because of how you posted.

2 - You've taken an experts stance on David Hogan and I need you to follow up your claims with documentation of your opinions. You are clearly publically rebuking his ministry so as a loving brother I now insist you quality your unbrotherly comments about him. Thanks in advance on that as at least you claims will have some qualified validity.
3 - Your post has an air of certainty coupled with authority. Could you share you background to help qualify your statements.

With love and humility,

wta


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William Thomas Anderson

 2008/7/4 5:39Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2669
Nottingham, England

 Re:

First, can I say, that videos from youtube are not appreciated by the moderators of this website.

You might not know that, but it has been stated in the past.

However, I did view the video, which was 10 mins 48 seconds for those interested.

The boy was raised from the dead after a swimming accident, and at the time of the interview was at a hospital with his mother.

So, the event had nothing to do with Lakeland. The people just came to glorify God and to tell of what had happened.

So in reality, this was not an event that took place in the arena in Lakeland, it was simply reported there.

I think the woman with the kidney failure would could more be attributed to happening at Lakeland, since she had been going since the 3rd day of the meetings.

But, people will continue to say yes or no to what is taking place at Lakeland. Not only that, it would be good if we would use scripture, the word of God, the Bible, when considering any and everything. Thanks.

 2008/7/4 6:29Profile
wta
Member



Joined: 2007/4/8
Posts: 68
Canadian in America (Bremerton, WA) "A stranger in a strange land..."

 Re:

Quote:

enid wrote:
Not only that, it would be good if we would use scripture, the word of God, the Bible, when considering any and everything. Thanks.



enid,

I thought I'd repost the title of the thread for you with a bit of clearification...

satan raises the dead in Jesus name *IN* Lakeland (Lakeland is a city in Flordia)...


Your post seem curiously void of the use of scriptural reference. Mmmmm... lol. This is shaping up to be one of those threads... :-D


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William Thomas Anderson

 2008/7/4 7:59Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2669
Nottingham, England

 Re:

I didn't use scripture, because I was referring to the video, just to prove that I watched it.

As it was, I don't remember a lot of scripture being used in the video itself, just Jesus and a lot of Christian phrases.

To be honest, this Lakeland thing doesn't intrest me.

As for scriptures, the ones I could us wouldn't be well received, so I'll leave it at that for now.

 2008/7/4 8:26Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Re: satan raises the dead in Jesus name in Lakeland...

wta,

In a case like this one has one has to stand back and look at the entire picture, where you can get an objective view.

[EDIT]: what does the Scriptures say about the miraculous? What about false prophets? What do they look like? What about the lifestyle of this prophet?

Jesus tells us in Matthew 24:24: "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Does one need more scriptures to validate this one? If so, go to e-Sword and do a search on "false" and see what you come up with.

wta, the ability of false prophets to do 'miraculous' feats is not confined to the NT era. Do you not remember the story of what happened when Moses and Aaron appeared before Pharaoh? (Exo. 7:10-12)The magicians were there, too. Aaron threw down his rod and it turned into a serpent. The magicians did the same with the same results. However, Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods! (Don't you just love that? Don't say God has no sense of humor!!)

Check out Rev. 16. Scripture well documents miracles being performed at the hands of false prophets which means that miracles is no proof that person comes from God.

Do you not know that in order for a false teacher to gain a following, he/she has to look, act like the genuine, hence there will be no following? And I have no doubt Bentley is sincere, he thinks he is doing the right thing! However, I suspect that at some point in his life he [i]made choices[/i] that were contrary to the will of God or his Word, so that he is now where he is. I have never seen reports of what his personal life is like - as a public person it should be carefully scrutinized. Matt. 5:15-22.

So was that boy dead? Maybe and maybe not. It would require the testimony of a medical expert to verify that. Testimony by a non-professionals is not adequate, IMHO. BTW, do you not know that in the old days [sometimes] people were pronounced dead, were buried but they were not dead? And how do others know this? Graves have been opened up because of a commotion by a dog at the site....(just one story). I am told it still happens in third world countries.

I know one does not want to be deceived but deception happens when we allow the spectacular to lead us away from what the Still Small Voice is saying...and all of us are at risk to be deceived. It helps a lot to not be impressed by wondrous works, or miracles...

Blessings,
ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2008/7/4 8:53Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
This is shaping up to be one of those threads...


Brother, I must interject here. It seems to me that you would provoke the thread to turn out this way because of some of your comments. Enid is right about the posting of YouTube links here in the forums. We try to stay clear of this because of the obvious danger it poses.

Now, from a personal standpoint (and I think I can speak for the majority of brethren here), this whole Lakeland thing is just wearisome. I feel like the whole thing has morphed into a spectacle that should not be entertained by those know the truth. It has turned into some of us becoming "tattle-tales", feeling we need to run into this forum with the latest, "Oooh, I'm telling on Lakeland!" and spead the most current gossip on the deception and foolery taking place over there. By doing this, and posting off-site links for others to "experience" it, we actually contribute to its perpetuation in the minds of many who come into these forums.

Both Chris and Enid posted valid replies, and, for some reason, it looks as though you have chosen the role as devil's advocate. Brother, it would be sad to discover you had an agenda by creating this thread. I haven't had my coffee yet, so I may be wrong :)

If I am, please forgive me and just try to post more cautiously, more non-confrontationally. And, please, can't we give Lakeland a rest here? Even watching those vids for 20 seconds is enough to determine we never need watch another one again.

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2008/7/4 9:32Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Evidence.

Quote:
2 - You've taken an experts stance on David Hogan and I need you to follow up your claims with documentation of your opinions. You are clearly publically rebuking his ministry so as a loving brother I now insist you quality your unbrotherly comments about him. Thanks in advance on that as at least you claims will have some qualified validity.



Try a search on the name here, it has been given extensive treatment and comment.

Quote:
But first I would like to humbly mention my extensive background in researching modern and ancient revival, church history and our Father's word relating to scripture. I am a recognized overseer in His body and gifted in teaching, pastoring and evangelism...



Not to be too severe, are you sure about that brother? Humbled and recognized? And gifted as well! Something uncomfortable about that statement, generally speaking, things are either evident or pronounced.


Speaking of evidence ... Chris's point is something that is sorely lacking. It bothers me greatly that Christians see nothing at all wrong with 'claims' that cannot be substantiated, that a little bit of pragmatism (or a whole lot) makes no difference. These things are so easy to prove and the welcoming of it should be, would be a great desire one would think that you couldn't shut them up about it. With the penchant for extremes and entertainment already so ingrained, where are the "Raised from the dead" tours? And the dead brought back to life traveling the Church circuits? Seriously, if there was a Lazarus brought forth from [i]the tomb[/i] where is the now normative celebrity status that Christendom would easily lavish upon the ... poor soul?

Curious, it is all just a bit too 'mysterious' and done in a corner, secretive and spurious indeed. In scripture it was open, public and strangely never disputed as having happened or not.

This is precisely why a Benny Hinn can heal in an auditorium but not in a hospital.

And so the Christian gullibility is reinforced, rightly so.


Quote:
I feel like the whole thing has morphed into a spectacle that should not be entertained by those know the truth. It has turned into some of us becoming "tattle-tales", feeling we need to run into this forum with the latest, "Oooh, I'm telling on Lakeland!"



Just caught your reply as I was going to post. "Spectacle" is a good summary. I am torn brother, it is both weary and yet concerning, wonder at who may be yet peering into these things ... the need to warn and maybe more just the need to ... weep.

"[i]That's like the bible, when someone got resurrected from the dead in the bible, they would cough or sneeze[/i]"

Which version is this? You are right, about 20 seconds is all one can take of this. 28 examples supposedly, they should be easy to produce ... Ok, I am not quite finished after all. I pushed through the first bit to try and hear it despite the ... theatrics and emotionalism, the obnoxiousness ...

Look, there is something decidedly ... appalling about this. There is just as much reason to give credence that this boy and this gentleman and the whole situation happened just as it was reported.

The whole thing is cheapened and degraded by this call and response like commentary from Bentley, why not just give the mic over to the brother and let him tell it as it happened? But no, he must be the focus of attention and then as if on cue here comes the guy up behind the man to get into position, the 'catcher' ... so he can be 'bammed' into ... what? For what stinking purpose? So he can take credit because it happened in his little corner of the world and 'impart' ... just what is supposed to be happening with this nonsense, nothing happens, nothing at all, other than to make foolish the saints, make them look foolish and deride before all the world to see just what a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ, the [i]Lord[/i] of heaven and earth ... something He would never approve of. It is so far beyond me that this needs any addressing in the first place and yet we must, even common sense has been given over to delusion.

Why? Why? Why? Oh, it is a bloody circus, even something as phenomenal as the retelling of a young life seemingly dead, being brought back to life is made a spectacle and garish, sickening production ...

I know, this is all old hat and has been going on a variety of similar constructs for years. All this pumping up and MC like ... like a motivational speaker stirring up the lower nature and emotions, like a laugh track because the comedy is so poor ... It's ultimately Christian entertainment and the people love it, love to have it so. One giant revival of entertainment ... "Whoo Hoo" come and get some.

I am sorry, having a difficult time expressing this rightly, it's all so forigen even if it is common, there is an inner revolt, a grief, a saddening ...


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Mike Balog

 2008/7/4 10:57Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Whether these miracles are real or not, whether they can be attributed directly to Todd Bentley or not, one cannot help but notice the used car salesman TV commercial style of presentation. Far from being a real revival, this apparently is nothing more than a long lasting Benny Hinn style meeting. Bentley and company just see much better at dragging it out than Hinn.


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Jimmy H

 2008/7/4 11:33Profile





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