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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Women teaching?

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narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Women teaching?

I recently entered a discussion with a church leader about women teaching and preaching. I checked recent posts for duplicates but could not find any so I am starting this one.

1. Cor 14: 33-38
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.[i]

1 Timothy 2:9-15
9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved[b] through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
From these and other verses in the bible I understand that women should not teach in church meetings where men are present and also hold no office as elders or deacons.
I still believe that women can do a lot in God’s kingdom and that there are inexhaustible and wonderful opportunities for them to serve in and outside the body of Christ.
These verses appear very plain to me, yet there are many leaders and scholars that believe that women can teach men and can be leaders. I do not trust theologians just because they are theologians and there are many who twist the scriptures. I personally feel uncomfortable to listen to a women teaching regardless how skillful or annointed her message.

Any comments? May the storm break loose.

narrowpath

 2008/6/23 8:19Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2680
Nottingham, England

 Re: Women teaching?

May the storm break loose indeed! You have just started one.

Despite the scriptures you have used, and they are very clear, people will use reasoning, analogy, supposition etc, to defend their position. Whatever that position may be.

Let battle commence.

 2008/6/23 8:26Profile









 Re:

There are alot of articles on this subject at www.reviveourhearts.com.

[url=http://www.reviveourhearts.com/radio/roh/today.php?pid=9898]The Role of the Woman In the Church[/url]

http://www.reviveourhearts.com/radio/roh/today.php?pid=9262

[url=http://www.reviveourhearts.com/radio/roh/today.php?pid=701]How Women Should Dress [/url]


There are many more on this site.

 2008/6/23 8:36









 Re: Women teaching?..Narrowpath





Narrowpath: For some time, I have been wrestling with the very same issue, and have been waiting to post a thread addressing the issue.



Since I am coming from a different angle, and it is so important, I believe it appropriate to do so. brothertom

 2008/6/23 10:05









 Re:

I think the Bible is very clear on this issue. Older women are to teach younger women. Women are to teach children. Women are forbidden to teach men in a church setting, and Paul goes into great detail as to why that is.

Some want to say that it isnt culturally relevant to us today, but then who decides what is relevant and what isnt? And Paul's clear explanation of this order in the church, and why it is, goes beyond cultures... cultures have nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with the Fall, and God's divine order within the church.

Krispy

 2008/6/23 10:32
Alf
Member



Joined: 2008/4/11
Posts: 82
Miami, FL

 Re:

i agree completely with Krispy.

a long time ago i was to give a lesson on this and well it has always been a controversial topic, so i prayed for a while and waited for God to give me a clear answer in order to get a "go" to teach on it and he did.

women should not teach over men, it is not correct for a Woman to pastor and in a way command a church but when she goes home she is submissive to her husband. This is just one thought out of many on the subject but the scriptures are very clear and the answer i got from the Lord forever convicted me on the subject.


_________________
Alfredo

 2008/6/23 11:04Profile
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

This doesn't require waiting on the Lord to give some new revelation.

The answer is settled in the Scriptures brought up in the original post.

Women, while they are not are slaves, are not to teach in the church.


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2008/6/23 13:32Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

As Krispy, Taylor, and of few others have said, and even more importantly, the Bible itself with the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul in the noted Scriptures-the scriptures make this topic/issue very plain-women were not to teach,preach, or lead the Church- This is true whether you participate in the instutionalized organization of Christianity, or whether you partake the in the more organic-house church.

I agree 100% with what Krispy, Taylor, and Alf said, because what they all said is of the Holy Scripture.

 2008/6/23 13:39Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re: thankful for women of God


Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Ga 3:28
There is neither male nor female. Neither the male nor the female have any peculiar advantages for salvation. There are no favours shown on account of sex. Both sexes are, in this respect, on a level. This does not mean, of course, that the sexes are to be regarded as in all respects equal; nor can it mean that the two sexes may not have peculiar duties and privileges in other respects. It does not prove that one of the sexes may not perform important offices in the church, which would not be proper for the other. It does not prove that the duties of the ministry are to be performed by the female sex; nor that the various duties of domestic life, nor the various offices of society, should be performed without any reference to the distinction of sex. The interpretation should be confined to the matter under consideration; and the passage proves only that in regard to salvation they are on a level. One sex is not to be regarded as peculiarly the favourite of heaven, and the other to be excluded. Christianity thus elevates the female sex to an equality with the male, on the most important of all interests; and it has in this way made most important changes in the world wherever it has prevailed. Everywhere but in connexion with the Christian religion, woman has been degraded. She has been kept in ignorance. She has been treated as an inferior in all respects. She has been doomed to unpitied drudgery, and ignorance, and toil. So she was among the ancient Greeks and Romans; so she is among the savages of America; so she is in China, and India, and in the islands of the sea; so she is regarded in the Koran, and in all Mohammedan countries. It is Christianity alone which has elevated her; and nowhere on earth does man regard the mother of his children as an intelligent companion and friend, except where the influence of the Christian religion has been felt. At the communion table, at the foot of the cross, and in the hopes of heaven, she is on a level with man; and this fact diffuses a mild, and purifying, and elevating influence over all the relations of life. Woman has been raised from deep degradation by the influence of Christianity; and, let me add, she has everywhere acknowledged the debt of gratitude, and devoted herself, as under a deep sense of obligation, to lessening the burdens of humanity, and to the work of elevating the degraded, instructing the ignorant, and comforting the afflicted, all over the world. Never has a debt been better repaid, or the advantages of elevating one portion of the race been more apparent.

Ac 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Ac 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.

The apostle Paul mentions several women who were helpers with him at the close of his letters and one even had a house church.

In Ac 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Acts 18:26
They took him unto them - This eloquent man, and mighty in the Scriptures, who was even a public teacher, was not ashamed to be indebted to the instructions of a Christian woman, in matters that not only concerned his own salvation, but also the work of the ministry, in which he was engaged. It is disgraceful to a man to be ignorant, when he may acquire wisdom; but it is no disgrace to acquire wisdom from the meanest person or thing. The adage is good: Despise not advice, even of the meanest: the gaggling of geese preserved the Roman state.

It is clear from scripture that we all need to (including myself) pray and study the word more before we come to a conclusion about God's children regardless of the color of skin or whether male or female.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Of all the scriptures mentioned in the bible concerning women being silent and not teaching nor usurping authority over the man needs not to be taken out of context. If a woman is married she is under the authority of her own husband. If she is single and out from under her parents, then no man is head over her, only Christ.

The bible even tells us in 1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

This should tell us brethren it's not male of female it is the anointing that teaches you. I'm sure we all know some men who are not biblical that we don't want teaching us. Personally, I don't want a man or a women who has not been dealt with by the cross teaching me the word of God. I would not dare tell a woman (because she is a woman) that she cannot preach, teach, or work for the Lord when she has given her life to Christ and she is his humble servant serving him with the gift he has given her to the body of Christ.

I have never read where Paul nor Jesus ever meant to say that one had to check and see whether they were male or female to see if they were qualified to do any ministry He had gifted them to do.

Jesus sets the captives free - Ga 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Sincerely in Christ,
rbanks

 2008/6/23 15:23Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re: thankful for women of God


Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Ga 3:28
There is neither male nor female. Neither the male nor the female have any peculiar advantages for salvation. There are no favours shown on account of sex. Both sexes are, in this respect, on a level. This does not mean, of course, that the sexes are to be regarded as in all respects equal; nor can it mean that the two sexes may not have peculiar duties and privileges in other respects. It does not prove that one of the sexes may not perform important offices in the church, which would not be proper for the other. It does not prove that the duties of the ministry are to be performed by the female sex; nor that the various duties of domestic life, nor the various offices of society, should be performed without any reference to the distinction of sex. The interpretation should be confined to the matter under consideration; and the passage proves only that in regard to salvation they are on a level. One sex is not to be regarded as peculiarly the favourite of heaven, and the other to be excluded. Christianity thus elevates the female sex to an equality with the male, on the most important of all interests; and it has in this way made most important changes in the world wherever it has prevailed. Everywhere but in connexion with the Christian religion, woman has been degraded. She has been kept in ignorance. She has been treated as an inferior in all respects. She has been doomed to unpitied drudgery, and ignorance, and toil. So she was among the ancient Greeks and Romans; so she is among the savages of America; so she is in China, and India, and in the islands of the sea; so she is regarded in the Koran, and in all Mohammedan countries. It is Christianity alone which has elevated her; and nowhere on earth does man regard the mother of his children as an intelligent companion and friend, except where the influence of the Christian religion has been felt. At the communion table, at the foot of the cross, and in the hopes of heaven, she is on a level with man; and this fact diffuses a mild, and purifying, and elevating influence over all the relations of life. Woman has been raised from deep degradation by the influence of Christianity; and, let me add, she has everywhere acknowledged the debt of gratitude, and devoted herself, as under a deep sense of obligation, to lessening the burdens of humanity, and to the work of elevating the degraded, instructing the ignorant, and comforting the afflicted, all over the world. Never has a debt been better repaid, or the advantages of elevating one portion of the race been more apparent.

Ac 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Ac 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.

The apostle Paul mentions several women who were helpers with him at the close of his letters and one even had a house church.

In Ac 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Acts 18:26
They took him unto them - This eloquent man, and mighty in the Scriptures, who was even a public teacher, was not ashamed to be indebted to the instructions of a Christian woman, in matters that not only concerned his own salvation, but also the work of the ministry, in which he was engaged. It is disgraceful to a man to be ignorant, when he may acquire wisdom; but it is no disgrace to acquire wisdom from the meanest person or thing. The adage is good: Despise not advice, even of the meanest: the gaggling of geese preserved the Roman state.

It is clear from scripture that we all need to (including myself) pray and study the word more before we come to a conclusion about God's children regardless of the color of skin or whether male or female.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Of all the scriptures mentioned in the bible concerning women being silent and not teaching nor usurping authority over the man needs not to be taken out of context. If a woman is married she is under the authority of her own husband. If she is single and out from under her parents, then no man is head over her, only Christ.

The bible even tells us in 1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

This should tell us brethren it's not male of female it is the anointing that teaches you. I'm sure we all know some men who are not biblical that we don't want teaching us. Personally, I don't want a man or a women who has not been dealt with by the cross teaching me the word of God. I would not dare tell a woman (because she is a woman) that she cannot preach, teach, or work for the Lord when she has given her life to Christ and she is his humble servant serving him with the gift he has given her to the body of Christ.

I have never read where Paul nor Jesus ever meant to say that one had to check and see whether they were male or female to see if they were qualified to do any ministry He had gifted them to do.

Jesus sets the captives free - Ga 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Sincerely in Christ,
rbanks

 2008/6/23 15:23Profile





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