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 Re: Waltern: nice job.


...Waltern, nice job, I know that took a lot of study,,,and of course people get riled when their nice Catholic friends are berated.....but, someone has to do it.


1] I suffer not a woman to teach, or to usurp authority over a man, but to be in silence.... Does this mean anything to anyone? I know it does to most on this post. Schlink is a woman , and teaches real bad stuff.
2] Does her theology alarm anyone, that there might be a bug in the potato somewhere? I don't care if she has 500 posts on Sermonindex, she is still a heretic. She worships Mary, and ran a Nunnery all of her life. She practices Catholic mysticism [she's dead, her nunnery lives on], and the wicked stoical disciplines that have engulfed Catholicism in monastic bondage's to enslave a billion unsuspecting souls to believe, and possibly die. Do these facts about her Character matter?

3] When it comes to content, these principles of judgement have been addressed, and Waltern much more eloquently than I. It is silliness, and I have explained why, as well as Waltern. That is content, yet you respond with accusations, that myself, me, have been the instigator of judgement, "more than anyone" here n SI. This may be true, but if my discernment is correct, and Godly, then you should be blessed,[as with anyone who posts on this literary cyber site, BUT Judge my posts on content please.

So, Pastorfrin, do you lean toward the mystical and Catholic teachers, and especially the feminine ones? It's OK if you do, I am not judging you for that.....but as I see it, it is poison, and may I have the freedom to express that here also, without be condemned as one who tears the church down through disrespect?

And Chris JD, where are you coming from, attacking Waltern for sharing Biblical examples of discernment, and berating him?


" Is this how God has directed you here?"
" who are you to anyone here?"




"Is this how accusations are handled here?



n All for writing an article, loaded with corroborating Scripture, [a very mature and biblical clear article, too.] that opposed your views, [and ruffled your feathers?] I'm sorry, but you need to ask forgiveness, and repent. Waltern, and even me, have the right to post Edifying ideas and responses, and you have no business trying to intimidate him or me, for our views. I am not intimidated, and I hope Waltern is encouraged for a solid teaching, that I enjoyed anyway.



I had no intentions of making this public, and I would like to dialogue the content, not fight the accusations.



I'm not against you, or Pastoer frin; I reject heresy, and that is my business, isn;t it?....Brothertom..

 2008/6/18 23:36
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Unnecessary brothertom ... and others. Why pour your suspicions and accusations into each other?

Quote:
and of course people get riled when their nice Catholic friends are berated.....but, someone has to do it.



Perfect example. No one is intimating any such thing. Slow down brethren and consider what you are saying ...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/6/18 23:45Profile









 Re:

On 8/19/2007 Billy Graham was a guest at Robert Schuler’s Church, the Crystal Cathedral, in Garden Grove, California. I actually watched this on television myself that day:

SCHULLER: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?

GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by GOD. [b]They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.[/b]

SCHULLER: What, what I hear you saying that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and souls and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?

GRAHAM: Yes, it is, because[b] I believe that I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.[/b]

SCHULLER: I, I'm so thrilled to hear you say this. There's a wideness in God's mercy.

GRAHAM: There is. There definitely is.
xxxxxxxxxxxx

[b]However, God’s Word tells us what is required to be saved[/b]

John 14:6 [Jesus speaking] "I am the way, the truth, and the life: No man cometh unto the father, but by me".

Acts 4:12 [Peter telling the crowd about Jesus] "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

1 John 2:23 "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."

Romans 5:21 "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

1 John 5:11 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."

John 10:9. I am the door: [b]by me[/b] if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15. As the Father knoweth me, even so I know the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Jesus is the only way to go into the presence of God. God is sinless and cannot allow sin in His presence because it would stain Him. For example, if you have twelve eggs that are fresh, you have a perfectly fresh dozen eggs. But if you take one out and put in a rotten egg, then you no longer have a perfectly fresh dozen eggs. You have twelve eggs but the dozen is polluted. It is the same with God. He is perfect. If anyone who is not perfect comes into His presence, His perfection is sullied. He cannot and will not allow that to happen.

The Bible tells us that the payment we must make for sin is death. If we sin we must die to pay for that sin. There is no work we can do on this earth to make up for our sins. We are doomed. Like the verse above says, we are already condemned.

The Bible says, in Hebrews 9:22, "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." In other words, only the death and spilling of the blood of a substitute victim will allow our sins to be forgiven. In the Old Testament they killed bulls and goats and the blood shed by the animals gave temporary forgiveness and the sacrifices had to be made over and over. But Jesus, the perfect, sinless Son of God gave his life and shed His blood for the remission of sins. He became our substitute victim. If we believe that He did that we are forgiven by the blood He shed. Jesus died on the cross, shedding His own blood for the world. But unlike the bulls and goats, Jesus died and God raised Him from the dead. He is alive today, now, this very second. His blood no longer needs to be shed. He died and shed His blood once for all and His blood never needs to be spilled again like the blood of the bulls and goats.

No one else has shed His blood for us, not Mohammed, not Buddha, not anyone. And not one of the founders of any religion is alive today. Only Christ, who founded Christianity, is alive today. He is the only one to shed His blood for all and then be raised from the dead, and continues to live, forever. He is the only way to get to heaven. There is no other. The Bible says so. If you have chosen to believe the Bible, it is the Bible that tells us Jesus is the only way.

Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Paul the Apostle of Jesus Christ wrote,


"Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses."

- 1Ti 5:19(KJV)


Is this how accusations are being handled here?

 2008/6/18 23:47
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Consider ...

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=4227&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]Billy Graham Exposed?[/url]


[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=6128&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]The good and bad of Billy Graham[/url]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/6/19 0:14Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Brothertom,



" Is this how God has directed you here?"



Is this not a valid question here?


Are we playing games here with other men's reputations?



Did the Lord Jesus Christ give us a gun for a mouth and tell us to shoot as YOU will?


I asked you after you had publicly declared the judgment of God upon an organisation if you were speaking of yourself, or of God. I did not see where you have responded yet.





_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/6/19 6:06Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2763
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Criticizing: Judging By Basilea Schlink

The things following the original article in this thread are are grief to me, my own post included, it was simply a nicely veiled criticism of its own, my sincere apologies.

Perhaps we can turn the discussion back to the article itself which I found to be convicting and challenging. I think Ms. Schlink tells it like it is from the Scriptures in this article.

There is a great tension between standing boldly for the truth and a love that covers others mistakes and bestows kindness. May God grant us each grace and wisdom to understand these things and walk humbly before God and man.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2008/6/19 10:41Profile









 Re:Billy Graham--Apostate? Compare his words to the Bible

([i]Moderator Edit: The content of this posting has been removed. The site mentioned clearly states that their articles are not to be stored on internet sites.[/i])


See also “Billy Graham and Rome” at the Evangelical section of the End Times Apostasy Database at the Way of Life web site -- http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/grahamrome1.htm

Sincerely,

Walter

P.S.We are instructed to use the word of God, the Bible, to test the doctrine (teaching) of other Christians. If it does not match, if it is not in full agreement with God’s Word, then it is to be rejected as false teaching, it is to be rejected as heresy.[b]2 Timothy 2:15-21[/b]

 2008/6/19 10:58
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone,



Waltrn,


In one sentence you accused [b]four[/b] different men here, including Billy Grahm.


Is this how the Bible directs us to bring accusations against men in public?





In your last post, you made how many more [b]accusations[/b] against how many more different people? Is this how God directs a man of God to charge persons publicly with guilt or apostasy or of teaching false doctrine?


How is anyone supposed to be able to sort through the multitude of qoutations, accusations, and opinons being presented here?



And if they do not, what are they left with, accept the allegations [b]you[/b] have made?



How is the context of the things you are alleging as statements made by individuals to be seen or understood in any of this????










[b][color=000000]One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him [i]that which is wrong[/i]; Then both the men, between whom the controversy [i]is[/i], shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days; And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, [i]if[/i] the witness [i]be[/i] a false witness, [i]and[/i] hath testified falsely against his brother; Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.[/color][/b]



- Deuteronomy 19:15-19(KJV)


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/6/19 18:22Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Brothertom wrote:

...Waltern, nice job, I know that took a lot of study,,,and of course people get riled when their nice Catholic friends are berated.....but, someone has to do it.

1] I suffer not a woman to teach, or to usurp authority over a man, but to be in silence.... Does this mean anything to anyone? I know it does to most on this post. Schlink is a woman , and teaches real bad stuff.
........
I reject heresy, and that is my business, isn;t it?....Brothertom..



So I guess it's safe to ascertain that you didn't read any of her article?

Quote:
... In reality, however, we enjoy correcting others and reproaching them. Often the real source of our criticism is rebellion or annoyance, because someone did something against our wishes.

.. So today we must choose a new way, a new place. Instead of sitting on the judgment throne above the others we must sit where we deserve to sit: in the defendant's box, where we can be judged and hear God's judgment on our sins.

 2008/6/19 21:44









 Re:

Hello ChrisJD:

It appears that you did not take the time to even read my last post. It is all about one person, Billy Graham.

When Paul was writing to Timothy, he instructed him to study the word of God, so that when other Christians spoke, he (Timothy) would be able to discern if what that person was saying was [b]TRUE[/b] to God’s Word, the Bible.

2 Timothy 2: 15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18.Who Concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. [b] (They wrongly preached that the rapture had already occurred)[/b] 19. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

According to the Book of Acts, Chapter 17 verse 11, Paul of Tarsus and Silas preached at Berea, and the inhabitants "eagerly examined the scriptures every day to see whether these things were so".[b] In other words they compared Paul’s teaching to what the Bible said, and many of them believed (what Paul had to say about Doctrine).[/b]

[b]In Hebrews, we are told that the Word of God is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart:[/b]

12. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

[b]In conclusion, we are instructed to use the word of God, the Bible, to test the doctrine (teaching) of other Christians. If it does not match, if it is not in full agreement with God’s Word, then it is to be rejected as false teaching, it is to be rejected as heresy.[/b]

As Christians, we are commanded to compare the words and teaching and doctrinal positions of other "Christians" (or those that say they are Christians) against the only true measure--the Holy Bible. That is exactly what I have done in my posts.

If you find fault with my post, then answer it point by point with [b]BIBLE SCRIPTURE that supports your view[/b]. For example, if you think that Billy Graham is [b]correct in his belief and position with infant baptism[/b] then prooftext that belief by Bible Scripture, and prove to us that the Bible teaches this fact.

[b][color=CC0000]This is a poem, that teaches us the use of God's Word, the Holy Bible--the ANVIL:[/color][/b]

[b]The Anvil--God's WORD[/b]

Last eve I passed beside a blacksmith's door,
And heart the anvil ring the vesper chime;
Then, looking in, I saw upon the floor
Old hammers, worn with beating years of time.

How many anvils have you had," said I,
"To wear and batter all these hammers so?"
"Just one," said he, and then, with twinkling eye, "The anvil wears the hammers out, you know."

And so, thought I, the anvil of God's Word,
For ages skeptic blows have beat upon;
Yet, though the noise of falling blows was heard,
The anvil is unharmed--the hammers gone.


[b]Other thoughts about God's Word:[/b]

[b][color=CC0000]Everything must be decided by Scripture.[/color][/b]

D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones (1899-1981)
Welsh preacher and writer

[b]The vigour of our spiritual life will be
in exact proportion to the place held by
the Bible in our life and thoughts.[/b]

George Müller (1805-1898)
Prussian-born English evangelist and
founder of a Bristol orphanage

[b][color=CC0000]Prove all things (BY SCRIPTURE!); hold fast that which is good.
1 Thessalonians 5:21


Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Psalm 119:105

Everything must be decided by Scripture!!!!!

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine (TEACHING), for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 1 Timothy 3:16[/color][/b]


Webster’s 1828 Dictionary of the English Language provides us with the meaning of the above words by Paul the Apostle to Timothy in 1 Timothy 3:16:

[b]DOCTRINE,[/b] n. [L., to teach.]
1. In a general sense, whatever is taught. Hence, a principle or position in any science; whatever is laid down as true by an instructor or master. The doctrines of the gospel are the principles or truths taught by Christ and his apostles. The doctrines of Plato are the principles which he taught. Hence a doctrine may be true or false; it may be a mere tenet or opinion.
2. The act of teaching.
He taught them many things by parables, and said to them in his doctrine. Mark 4.
3. Learning; knowledge.
Whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Isaiah 28.
4. The truths of the gospel in general.
That they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things. Titus 2.
5. Instruction and confirmation in the truths of the gospel. 2 Timothy 3.

[b]REPROOF',[/b] n. [from reprove.
1. Blame expressed to the face; censure for a fault; reprehension.
Those best can bear reproof, who merit praise.
He that hateth reproof is brutish. Prov 12.
2. Blame cast; censure directed to a person.
CORRECTION, n. [L.]
1. The act of correcting; the act of bringing back, from error or deviation, to a just standard, as to truth, rectitude, justice or propriety; as the correction of opinions or manners.

[b]All scripture is profitable for correction.[/b] 2 Timothy 3.
2. Retrenchment of faults or errors; amendment; as the correction of a book, or of the press.
3. That which is substituted in the place of what is wrong; as the corrections of a copy are numerous; set the corrections in the margin of a proof-sheet.
4. That which is intended to rectify, or to cure faults; punishment; discipline; chastisement; that which corrects.
Withhold not correction from the child. Proverbs 23.
5. In scriptural language, whatever tends to correct the moral conduct, and bring back from error or sin, as afflictions.
They have refused to receive correction. Jeremiah 5. My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord, nor be weary of his correction. Proverbs 3.
6. Critical notice; animadversion.
7. Abatement of noxious qualities; the counteraction of what is inconvenient or hurtful in its effects; as the correction of acidity in the stomach.
House of correction, a house where disorderly persons are confined; a bridewell.

[b]INSTRUC'TION,[/b] n. [L. instructio.]
1. The act of teaching or informing the understanding in that of which it was before ignorant; information.
2. Precepts conveying knowledge.
Receive my instruction and not silver. Prov.8.
3. Direction; order; command; mandate. The minister received instructions from his sovereign to demand a categorical answer.

[b]RIGHTEOUSNESS,[/b] n. ri'chusness.
1. Purity of heart and rectitude of life; conformity of heart and life to the divine law. Righteousness, as used in Scripture and theology, in which it is chiefly used, is nearly equivalent to holiness, comprehending holy principles and affections of heart, and conformity of life to the divine law. It includes all we call justice, honesty and virtue, with holy affections; in short, it is true religion. 2. Applied to God, the perfection or holiness of his nature; exact rectitude; faithfulness. 3. The active and passive obedience of Christ, by which the law of God is fulfilled. Daniel 9.4. Justice; equity between man and man. Luke 1. 5. The cause of our justification.The Lord our righteousness. Jer. 23.



Sincerely,

Walter

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi everyone,



Waltrn,


In one sentence you accused [b]four[/b] different men here, including Billy Grahm.


Is this how the Bible directs us to bring accusations against men in public?





In your last post, you made how many more [b]accusations[/b] against how many more different people? Is this how God directs a man of God to charge persons publicly with guilt or apostasy or of teaching false doctrine?


How is anyone supposed to be able to sort through the multitude of qoutations, accusations, and opinons being presented here?



And if they do not, what are they left with, accept the allegations [b]you[/b] have made?



How is the context of the things you are alleging as statements made by individuals to be seen or understood in any of this????










[b][color=000000]One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him [i]that which is wrong[/i]; Then both the men, between whom the controversy [i]is[/i], shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days; And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, [i]if[/i] the witness [i]be[/i] a false witness, [i]and[/i] hath testified falsely against his brother; Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.[/color][/b]



- Deuteronomy 19:15-19(KJV)

 2008/6/19 21:47





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