I am never going to call a man Father Smith , or Rev. Father Joe out of respect.
_________________Diane
Wow roadsign that was a powerful post. Humility is just too vital to successfully maintaining a relationship with the Lord and without a close relationship with the Lord there is no success in ministering to His body and the unsaved world.Pro 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall. Oh Lord help us understand your true humility. Lord the kind that would see the creator of the universe born in a barn and destroyed on a cross... How ever can we, your body walk as you walk without this revelation? All for souls, wta
_________________William Thomas Anderson
I wonder if the Lord had called some of our ministries by different names, if we'd be so quick to use them. Imagine if the apostles had been called "ditch diggers." I wonder if we would be so quick to embrace such labels. Indeed, it is a scary thing today that many embrace the label apostle, yet, know nothing of the apostolic poverty Paul and his coworkers knew. How about this description for such a "glorious" ministry:1 Cor:49 For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are prudent in Christ; we are weak, but you are strong; you are distinguished, but we are without honor. 11 To this present hour we are both hungry and thirsty, and are poorly clothed, and are roughly treated, and are homeless; 12 and we toil, working with our own hands; when we are reviled, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure; 13 when we are slandered, we try to conciliate; we have become as the scum of the world, the dregs of all things, even until now. How do you like 'them apples?
_________________Jimmy H
Well said KingJimmy. I've noticed a trend in the last fifteen years or so. There are waves of titled "pastors" being elevated to the distinguished title of "prophet" but somehow only for a season as these very same chaps go through more elevation and end up with the illustrious title of "apostle". Curious how the Lord seems to "juggle" these gifts; its hard to keep up with it, all the changes in my address book...Pro 15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom, And before honor is humility. I feel only to have touched the tip of the iceburg and I'm in awe of how great a task it will be to find the end of the revelation of humility... All for souls, wta
In his day and times, A.W.Tozer was a true Apostolic teacher and voice in many arenas. I believe that is how the "gift" works. "In whatever is spoken, [i]THAT[/i] will He speak of!"[ Jesus speaking of the Spirit of truth, The comforter. ] A few years ago, I got ahold of some old Tozer tapes. On this one, he was addressing a group of ministers at a conference, and evidently was very well known and honored by all there. The master of ceremonies, his introductee, poured on the accolades in heaps, ending with his call to the pulpit. "Now, I give to you this illustrious preacher of preachers; Doctor A. W. Tozer!!!![thunderous applause...] Tozer came up to the podium, and you heard a little shuffling of paper....."That's [i]Brother[/i] Tozer to you!" thank you.,,,and the audience laughed, maybe nervously. He preached on the position and lineage of Positional office, using the text about the Pharisee's touting their pedigree in racial blood line to assume the "Chair of Moses." He equated the exact same spirit resting on this group of Pastors, as was on them, in that they may have believed that the virtue of their office would exempt them broken love for all. I remember him crying; "You are the flesh!" right in their faces. You are the flesh!", as he considered their plight and deception of wicked Adam within, that would allow a positional separation, a "Clergy/ Laity, in the body of Christ. Not a lot of ministers would go there...[ Maybe this message is posted here at S.I,...I got it from the T. A. S. folks in Tulsa, I think. Thank you for your insights here Diane. Brother Tom Watkins! :-P
I've been told that there is a new "movement" by the Lord to "reinstate" the offices of apostles and prophets and that it due to this "move" of God that we're seeing so many "released into their destinies". I grimace just to type such things. May I venture to say that God has never stoped giving the spiritual gift of governance to His people. He has always raised up all the offices as true apostles and prophets, evangelists and pastor teachers who refuse to announce that they are such and hence are seen as humble brothers in the Lord that give their lives totally to the Lord, His word, prayer and the protection and forwarding of the apostles doctrine. Is it only prideful men wanting to be seen well before people that promote such self serving issues? I humbly wonder with great concern... All for souls, wta
I've been told that there is a new "movement" by the Lord to "reinstate" the offices of apostles and prophets and that it due to this "move" of God that we're seeing so many "released into their destinies".
Jimmy: You spoke of the Apostolic always having been around. You are right. John Wesley, and Whitefield, John Lake, and many more. They were not men, who sat in the towers and dispensed there Authority as so many Charismatic Cardinals seem to do, to pass off as real Apostolic. The true Prophets, and especially Apostles of all times, are directly associated with the establishing of the Kingdom of Heaven, by the taking of it, away from Satan. Revived Churches spring up behind the Apostolic team...the 5 fold.... Someone out there knows the thousands of miles that John Wesley spent on Horseback...and his troubles....Do these modern day usurpers of that Word , have this experience behind them, and fruit of holy and sound Churches rolling forward, because of their ministry?..or do they want you to accept them because they say they are qualified.... Many, many do accept them. Let us look at the prophets in ministry now, as you have referred to. It seems they desire power, more than their desire to see souls saved and grounded for Jesus's sake. Most of the Apostles who have lived, are most likely lost in Obscurity, with no record or Honor rolls on Earth...yet, I bet we will one day see who has made the wiser choice. I would rather have my name, where my reward is also...I am hoping, in that Great Book, the book of Life. Good enough for them, I bet, also.
Doctrinal issues such as this are deeply concerning. It's one thing if we had a fringe group who were rouge separatists but what we are looking at, if we have the heart of the matter is a deadly plague of pride sweeping through what has been commonly described as the body/church of Christ. I am split on this matter as I have great faith in my commander in Chief and His ability to train and govern His military forces. Now with that said I get a yet deeper concern. Are these men and woman who are failing to address Mat 23:8-10 really severing Jesus Christ? Can they really be filled with the Spirit of Truth? Why do they look more corporate than broken? Why do they spend more time per week on their Sunday morning sermons than winning souls and training those he has been authorized to oversee to win souls? How do I know this and make such speculations? I have been one of them but yet not at the same time. I've been in the system but not of the system and now I feel I've been given the release to stand aside and review, review, review. Does a little leaven leaven the whole lump?1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 1Co 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. Lord have mercy. wta
From time to time I receive a private email in response to an SI discussion. I have received permission to post the following comments shared to me privately. They are important in my opinion, because they remind us of the danger of running away with any one scriptural idea while failing to see the bigger picture, or failing to understand the spiritual implications of that verse. I just want to thank you for your post on SI in reference to title distinctions. It was right on the mark. ( ) We had some dear friends who got really caught up on not using title distinctions because they said Jesus forbid it. And they would go as far as to say it was sin to call someone "Mr" because it was a derivative of "master" and Jesus said "call no man master". So they would look down on humble godly men who people referred to as "pastor" etc. But greatly respected a man named Mike who's teachings they where deeply entrenched in. They held this man's teachings higher than the scriptures themselves. They were not able to see that they had made this man "Mike" master even though they just called him by first name and where completely missing the point. I was not quite able to articulate my uneasiness about the whole situation and it was some time later that I was able to see what was going on. But I knew something was amiss. I agreed with the principle and could see that it was biblical, but the spirit behind it was off. So, I just want to thank you for your humble, yet truthful post. via a messenger, Diane
