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 Re: ejg: Obama...sufferring saint?



Ejg; This thread isn't about anyone's feelings about Obama, it is about the [i]facts[/i] concerning his political makeup that are absolutely opposed to the Lordship and heart of the Lord Jesus Christ.


Quote:
How can you knock this man, especially being Christians?



Elvin, Chistians follow Jesus, and try to make sure that someone isn't bad and act like their good before we say we like them, and we follow them. This is because if we end up being tricked, God may have to reject us, just like the person who tricked us. This is called discernment in the Bible. We can't do bad things that God warns us about, or we will hurt people, and God will be angry.
Quote:
We need to have as little involvement with such issues anyway unless we are lulled to sleep.



A stellar and deep insight here Elvin. Are you a Pastor?...Well yes, sometimes it's nice to get involved, you know, just to let People Know that some things are real bad, like murdering babies.


Maybe it's not such a "cheap and sensless discussion" to the infants who were murdered by this practice, you think?


I don't want to accuse you of being a moron, or anything like that, but the point is, Elvin, we [i]are trying [/i] to wake up. Thanks for your concern.

 2008/6/13 4:14









 Re:

"On your quote "sin is sin"...no it's not. All sins are NOT created equal. Scripture very plainly testifies to that fact." BeYeDoers

I agree brother. I guess my point should have been sin begets sin. There's penalty to in whoever engages in the practice individually and on a corporate level and both sides do this. I'm not sure where people got anyting about endorsing a party....it's not about that... the hypocrisy on both sides is palpable and disturbing. I took the other side of a comment for perspective on THE CHURCH...that's all and it's needed. My point with T.D. Jakes visiting Obama is that this is nothing new with the church on either side of the isle. All the people I referenced were people of the so-called church, it had nothing to do with affilitation and everything to do with hypocrisy in the church when they claim to represent Christ then show their true nature when they get to a place of responsibility or influence. Perhaps I should have referenced Sharpton and Jesse Jackson but no one seems to take them seriously, not like the Word Faith camp. I wasn't surprised at all that Jakes et al met with Obama, not after all we've seen with prominent people in the church getting mixed up in political influence before getting caught with their hand in the 'cookie jar of hypocrisy'. It's hurting Christ. Everyone expects the unsaved to act in a manner of doing wrong even if they know it's wrong. The problem is that the church is acting in like manner.

I'm against abortion and all sin and anyone who propagates or endorses such individually or as a group. I shouldn't have to make such a declaration on this site to my brothers and sisters, I assume we all are. But I'll take aim at the church before anyone else with what is taking place today and I stand by my previous comments to that effect.

Concerning the comment Obama and the hypothetical pregnancy, I'm assuming that was elsewhere in the thread. I agree wholeheartedly but again where's the church? Are we in our prayer closets touching the Throne of God like Daniel, or are we having closed door meetings and engaging in rhetoric about how horrible all this is and what it will lead to if our leadership doesn't wake up?

The church needs to awaken. Christ said: 'My house will be a house of prayer'. I take comfort in this prophesy, it cuts through all of the division.

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 2008/6/13 7:43
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Cheap

Quote:
and we are engaged in this cheap and senseless discussion.



And you have just engaged yourself as well.

Is it still cheap and senseless?

Quote:
I believe that many people out there hate the guy because he is a black man at the end of the day, not a mixed-half white, half black man. I am not suggesting any of you are by any stretch, but people as a whole must get over it.



And with that notion so goes the coloring of your perspective and presumptions. This is obviously an incorrect assumption as the potential next president of this country, if this was truly the case he would never had made it this far.

If you have read through the concerns expressed here they are towards ideology and by extension character, and for my part I am speaking towards that of our own stripe more than anything.

Cheap and senseless ... The mantra of abortion


[i]And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.[/i] Hos 4:9


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/6/13 9:33Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Judgment begins ...

Quote:
All the people I referenced were people of the so-called church, it had nothing to do with affilitation and everything to do with hypocrisy in the church when they claim to represent Christ then show their true nature when they get to a place of responsibility or influence.



Quote:
The problem is that the church is acting in like manner.



Precisely ...

Quote:
Are we in our prayer closets touching the Throne of God like Daniel, or are we having closed door meetings and engaging in rhetoric about how horrible all this is and what it will lead to if our leadership doesn't wake up?



Wondering if that should be a "and" rather than an "or" ? If I may;

Are we driven to prayer due to how horrible this all is and what it will lead to if our leadership doesn't wake up.

[i]like people like priest[/i]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/6/13 9:46Profile









 Re: Coley: I want God's Heart.




Quote:
"We shouldn't have to make such a declaration on this site...."

Quote:
"Are we in our prayer closets touching the throne of God like Daniel, or are we having closed door meetings and engaging in rhetoric about how horrible all this and what it will lead to if our leadership doesn't wake up?"




From my understanding about Sermonindex forum, it is a venue to discuss all manner of relevant issues concerning the Lord Jesus, and His Church. I ask you, is this a relevant issue? [ Abortion]...Where would you suggest that this evil be exposed and confronted? Did the Bible ever call the Church to be a light, and a Beacon?


Did those in ministry, and the servants of the Lord ever warn ,or trumpet the cry of the oppressed? Did the Prophets ever cry out to the people of God to stand for the good, and not the evil?



How will they hear, if a voice does not declare it? Coley, if you haven't realized it yet, this is what the 10s of thousands of Sermons [b]HERE ON SERMONINDEX [/b] are about, and is the root of holy preaching that these many brothers passed on above gave their lives to, as did the Lord Himself, and all of the Apostles.


Holy, anointed Apostolic preaching for God, and against sin is the root power that leads to revival, and yes, an Awakening! It instills the inward motivation and conviction to agree with the Lord, and to turn back to Him. We all are in desperate need here to burn with this holy fire, in spirit and in truth, and yes, we all are failing God, without having this Heart for him in fullness, to oppose the wickedness as a John the Babtist, Paul, or Jesus. We want to, and we hope the Lord will allow us to carry this burden His way, that would be pleasing to Him.


This isn't about "our leadership waking up.." Coley. Personally, these men have never been my leaders, and much of their doctrines and practices are odious to me. This, in itself was more of a Wake up call to us all, to alarm us of how far we have descended and compromised, as these [i]perceived[/i] and popular leaders gush their praise towards a man that represents the most vile ideas and principles that spit in the face of life itself.


Prayer begins with a burden to repent. Repentance comes behind the preaching of the truth, which brings holy conviction. Our prayers only travel ceiling high, with out a broken and contrite heart that clings to His truth.


All of the infant people who were cast away into murder are in Heaven right now. The Bible says that some cry to God, "How Long?...Will you not avenge our blood shed on the EARTH?"


The blood of Abel made a cry to God, as a person. The Lord heard, and confronted Cain. Much of this forum and discussion, and the fruit of it's intensity, is born by real voices in Heaven, singing; "Will you not remember, Oh Lord!"


Pray for me , as you intercede, Coley, that I would repent, and capture His heart as it is in Heaven. I have been a hypocrite in not living my perceived convictions on this issue, and I want to...Thanks.

 2008/6/13 11:44
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
Wondering if that should be a "and" rather than an "or" ?



I think this is one of the most important points we can take away here.


MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2008/6/13 12:04Profile









 Re:

"Wondering if that should be a "and" rather than an "or" ? If I may;

Are we driven to prayer due to how horrible this all is and what it will lead to if our leadership doesn't wake up." crsschk

I think it could certainly be used this way sure. But my use of 'or' was more of a contrast of time spent. Are many of the 'church influentials' (TD Jakes was the specific mention) spending their time in 'meeting's or in prayer? And are we spending more time discussing the obvious atrocities of sin that have been here for years, and politics has yet to resolve, than we are praying ernestly for God's divine providence and intervention? I'm not indicting anyone here and I will include myself, but in general we tend to spend much time doing the easy thing in discussing what ails our society and the world and not nearly as much time in the prayer closet. Many in the church want to discuss the problem but not be part of the solution. Someone once said; "when all is said and done, more is said than done". Sadly, I think of the church in this. Christ said the workers are few. Not the sayers but the doers. Jim Cyballa's sermon on "My House Will Be A House Of Prayer" really convicted me with his truth about the need for prayer. Many push the blame (including myself) on gov't, certain organizations, movements etc… but fail to look to the church first. I believe that concerning the atrocities of abortion we tend to blame the world for the problem, perhaps rightfully so, but they have no Christ. I'm not excusing the behavior here but the world is supposed to be depraved without Christ. So any sin problem isn't the world's problem in the sense that they have the solution….IT'S OUR PROBLEM. We're the beacon of righteousness in Christ, we can only see it for what it is, we're the one's who weep at these sins... and if we're not…we should. So why should we be surprised that the world does not seem to care? So instead of fanagling in our flesh trying to influence the state with meetings, money, endorsements, leadership, petitions, activism and the like (which we spend much time doing) we need to intercede and pray. My house will be called a house of PRAYER, not a house of activism, leadership influence, money, fingerpointing, self righteousness, or scholarly debate. We need doers of prayer.

Brothers and sisters, I am guilty too. I pray but not nearly enough especially in light of these last days. Sometimes I'm like a deer in the headlights with the multitude of chaos all around us. It can get exhaustive and overwhelming. I pray for more prayer because we're the one's who see sin for what it is and what it will do, and therefore we are the hope of the world in Christ. Bless you brothers and sisters.

 2008/6/13 12:11









 Re:

"We shouldn't have to make such a declaration on this site...."

"From my understanding about Sermonindex forum, it is a venue to discuss all manner of relevant issues concerning the Lord Jesus, and His Church. I ask you, is this a relevant issue? [ Abortion]...Where would you suggest that this evil be exposed and confronted? Did the Bible ever call the Church to be a light, and a Beacon?"

Brothertom, my apologies. Maybe I didn't phrase that the right way. When I said that I was addressing the people on the thread just to make my own postion clear even though I felt it should be assumed, I was not implying that we should not have to give our position in general. So I agree with you. I took a different postion on the original postings to perhaps offer perspective and didn't want to be perceived as taking an ideological position. I felt compelled to speak for myself and others here on abortion so it's assumed upfront that we are all in agreement that abortion is an atrocious sin so we could get beyond that point and perhaps dig a little deeper. My whole logic, for better or worse, was getting past the issues themselves and recognizing the church's failure in these areas before we start slinging mud at the world.

 2008/6/13 12:28









 Re:

Any answer I get will be to justify why we are talking or railing about or against the man. Take me up on my offer this weekend.



 2008/6/13 12:28









 Re: MC: Puritans: and our desire to be Pure.



Quote:
"It's ironic; they were not single issue people at all... and somehow they never generated the bewildering minutia of plurality that plagues the Church in our generation.





In the context that they cared about the Church, and the commonwealth......MC, Do you think this may have had something to do with the fact that were communalists?,,, And shared all things in in common, in a general sense? Of course they were well rounded, the same way that the early church was well rounded, when they shared all things in common. It was partly a matter of survival, as many lost their means and jobs through persecution, and logically, as "my brothers keeper and provider".


Where are the Puritans today? "The minutia of plurality"..[I guess that means dealing with the many facets of life and issues as Christians] certainly did arise in their midst, for they have been replaced by an infestation of anti-christ socialists, IE, the New England Liberals, that all, at least politically, oppose the foundations of Christian Faith.


The other example, the early Church, began it's slide into "bewildering minutia", a few months after her conception. Read First Corinthians, the rebukes to the 7 Churches By our Lord, the book of Acts, and each Epistle by the Apostles.


Only God can address every issue at the same time. He has the mind for it. We mortals, like Paul, at various times must address them one at a time, just like the thousands of individual posts have done here, over the years, and just like the over


[b]One Million sermon downloads[/b] have done...one issue, and one burden at a time.


Because the single issue of Abortion is one that leads to the murder of innocent people, it tends to be more volatile and important. It is not the paramount issue for Sermonindex or most here, I would say, but it is Arising again in light of the election of our once great countries leaders, so it is the churches duty and moral obligation to address it. We have failed, no doubt, but we get up again and say, Lord Jesus, Help us Repent!, and do the thing that pleases you.

 2008/6/13 12:47





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