SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Christian Leaders Meet Privately with Obama (article)

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


Christians and the church have been under the delusion that the voting booth is the way to change when they spend more time there than in their prayer closets.


Amen on your call to repentance and payer. I hope we aren't becoming immune to this call. The danger of not heeding the call, is that it becomes part of our religious social ritual whenever we discuss these things, and then we are done for.

I don't think thread is about which party to vote for. I think the conversation has moved to the place of despairing over both parties.

(edited for mercy and brevity :-) )


Mike Compton

 2008/6/12 13:48Profile


Thanks for the post Compton. I think you have a good perspective. "Now this is just a metaphor...I'm not equating the military to the Church! Yet likewise the church is not able to convince the whole crowd gathered around of it's mission. We are called to be a witness to the unknown Savior, the Creator who is rejected by his own, for God's glory and perhaps to call a few out of the darkness into the light. (Pretty big calling for a suburban father...)"

Amen to this insightful metaphor. I understand what you are saying about 'saving the world' vs 'being saved from the world' and I agree. I guess my point was more 'works oriented' because it seems that this is where many of us fall short. We're not short of opinions, prophesies, debates, scholars, preachers, authors, or activists, but in the work we are commanded to do. Feeding the sheep, praying in secret, and witnessing to a dying world isn't a bright and shiny ministry. When Christ said the 'workers are few' He was surely prophesying the truth. I believe the work Christ is talking about is a selfless work....the kind that demands something beyond ourselves and gloifies the Savior. Like you said ..not saving the world but saving from the world... As long as the Lord tarries a dying world awaits those few workers to do His bidding.

Blessings to you.

 2008/6/12 14:28

Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN


But I can't blame one party or another with the ills of our society. Sin is sin and both parties engage in the practice...

I am not endorsing a party here. But we are talking about the Democratic party as a whole CHAMPIONING the slaughter of the innocents while spewing about like they actually care about civil rights, social justice, etc. When you support infanticide, it shows your mindset on human life and where your priorities lie. It's not just "one issue" is a mindset and culture. It impacts your thinking on every other "issue," as I will comment on in a minute. Of course there are pro-life democrats and pro-infanticide republicans, but the fact remains that the DNC EQUATES the name "democrat" with "abortion", and publishes it proudly.

One other comment on Obama's "if my daughters make a mistake (meaning premarital sex), I don't want them to have to be punished with a baby": not only does he equate pregnancy and children with punishment, when God says they are a blessing, but he is also saying he believes people should not have to face the consequences of their decisions. They can just kill the evidence and continue living their life free of guilt and justice. What does this say about his views on criminal justice, civil justice, and personal responsibility? The logical conclusion of this results in chaos, anarchy, selfishness to the extreme, and eventually the downfall of a society.

On your quote "sin is sin" it's not. All sins are NOT created equal. Scripture very plainly testifies to that fact.

Denver McDaniel

 2008/6/12 17:37Profile

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


Hi everyone,

Brother Mike,

Isn't John the Baptist is a great example of a man sent by God speaking under God's authority!

He was a man sent from God(John 1:6).

Was filled with the Holy Spirit from his mother's womb(Luke 1:15).

Testified to publicly by the Son of God(Matthew 11:11).

Prophesied of by the prophets(Malachi 3:1, Isaiah 40:3).

And came in the spirit and power of Elijah(Luke 1:17).

"For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [i]unto him[/i]."

- John 3:34(KJV)

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/6/12 18:26Profile

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


"And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men [i]and[/i] brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God unto this day. And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth. Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, [i]thou[/i] whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law? And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest? Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people."

Acts 23:1-5(KJV)

[i]...I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people[/i]

Hi again all.

I was wondering if any of you know of some passages in the scriptures where the Apostles show us how to rail against our leaders and lament and bemoan the evils of our society and corrupt politicians.

I mean, so that we can have a godly example of how to do it here amongst each other.

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/6/12 18:33Profile

 Re: Chris. JD Who do we honor: God or man/

You errently assume that Obama is in any way associated with holiness or the priesthood of Jesus, and furthermore that we should submit to them or him in anyway as my leader. Just because he was elected as a Senator doesn't give him a pass as whether he is of antichrist or not, any more than the Herods , or the Nero's of old. Where did you get these ideas? They are unbiblical in spirit and in doctrine.

Peter said, " you be the judge, if we should submit to men, or to God!" after imprisonment and beating for preaching.

john the Babtist rebuked Herod, the king, and did rail against him for his evil lifestyle. He was beheaded.

Jesus rebuked Herod, calling him a "fox", [an unclean animal]. Many, many times, did He rebuke and castigate the spiritual leaders of Israel, the Pharisees, and the Sadducees, and the Leaders of the Law, the Scribes or Lawyers. He called them hypocrites, and white washed tombs, snakes and the like.

There are more, but I would like to leave you with a recent historical and relevant example of submission to the President, and to leaders; Adolph Hitler. The Lutheran church, as a whole, endorsed him, and some believed that his edicts of annihilation were from God. Most, that may have had there doubts, kept silent, and passively endorsed these monsters by their silence. Today, in Israel, this is vividly remembered, and kept alive for all generations, that German Christians did nothing, and many of the Concentration camp guards went to Christian services, directly after gassing a few hundred helpless men, women, and children.

Where in the world or you coming from? We have Godly conscience's that should over ride any earthly authority; if Jesus is our Lord, and we do not love our own lives unto death.

 2008/6/12 19:21

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


Hi Brothertom,

Thank you for your response to me.

Brothertom, about this,

"You errently assume that Obama is in any way associated with holiness or the priesthood of Jesus, and furthermore that we should submit to them or him in anyway as my leader."

My intention in qouting the passage from Acts was to bring to view Paul's response to being confronted with having spoken evil against the ruler of his people, the Jews. While the Lord Jesus was now the High Priest over God's people, I think this shows that Paul still acknowledged the visible position of authority that Ananias had)that he was at least seen by the people as having it). And he(Paul) acknowledged his wrong.

"Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people."

- Exodus 22:28(KJV)

According to Strong's, the word translated 'gods' here is

Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

John Gill has on this passage the following:

"...civil magistrates, the judges of the land, and the like, are meant, who are powers ordained of God, are in his stead, and represent him, and therefore respect should be shown them; nor should they be treated with any degree of slight and contempt, which may discourage and intimidate them, and deter them from the execution of their office"

Compare the use of this word translated gods, for instance, with Psalm 82.

Paul, the Apostle writes in Romans chapter 13

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation."

- Romans 13:1-2(KJV)

I do think we are to submit to the authority of the rulers of our land(as citizens) in as much as they do not require of us to do something which is contrary to the laws of the Kingdom of Heaven. And I do think that would include giving them due benevolence and respect(1 Peter 2:17) for the authority that they have, from God Himself.

I think we can consider Daniel as an example of this. I had posted the following before in this thread; I'd like to copy it here again rather than type it over:

"When Daniel stood before king Nebuchadnezzar(to interpret his dream), who had before put Daniel's friends into a furnace to burn them alive, he did not use the opportunity to rail against the king, or bring accusations against him, but called him 'lord.' This account is in Daniel chapter 4."

Brothertom, you went on to say,

"Just because he was elected as a Senator doesn't give him a pass as whether he is of antichrist or not..."

It was this Nebuchadnezzer, who Daniel calls 'lord', that had prior to this made a huge image of gold and made a decree that the peoples and languages under his authority come and bow down to it. I'm not suggesting that Daniel or his friends ever submitted to do anything evil which the king had commanded, but neither does he speak evil of him, or rail against him.

In fact, when he is shown by God that judgment had come upon him(through understanding the dream), he actually expresses the sentiment that the dream be rather unto the king's enemies(Daniel 4:19).

John the Baptist was sent by God. And did not speak on his own authority.

And the Lord Jesus said,

[b][color=660000]...I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. [/color][/b]

- John 12:49(KJV)


Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/6/12 20:16Profile

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: the Church triumphing under communisim

Hi everyone.

I had mentioned before Pastor Wurmbrand and I thought of sharing one of the messages available on SI here with you all.

[url=]Church Triumphant [/url]

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/6/12 21:30Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Abortion

Dear brother Chris,

Isn't John the Baptist is a great example of a man sent by God speaking under God's authority!

Brother, can see where you are coming from as you go on. Perhaps you make the point better for me; Are there not any men sent from God that might speak in like fashion?

I was wondering if any of you know of some passages in the scriptures where the Apostles show us how to rail against our leaders and lament and bemoan the evils of our society and corrupt politicians.

A bit terse there brother ... They are not our leaders. Not the senator nor the invitees. They might have had the greatest opportunity to speak as one voice as what the Church is and believes but the whole thing just smacks of compromise and coziness, of the fear of man ... Hard to tell when it is so clouded in off the record rhetoric, but I was speaking towards that as well.

This is the silent, one sided war against the helpless and it has been categorized as an issue. All the verbiage in the world is not enough to speak of it's ghastliness, all the pacifism combined about wars and self-defense, all the sheer horrors of the procedures, all that has even been said here by comparisons to all the wars and the tally's ...

Luk 18:16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Mike Balog

 2008/6/12 23:25Profile


I hear so much hatred toward Obama period that it is disgusting to my eyes and ears. he and his family are human beings in need like every human of a deep love for human beings.

I do not care who is in office because whomever it is they have ahuge task, just in prayer alone if they will consider the Living God of Abraham, Isaac and jacob. I mean I hear so many people that call this man a Nazi, we DO not know whether is anything other than what he is.

I believe that many people out there hate the guy because he is a black man at the end of the day, not a mixed-half white, half black man. I am not suggesting any of you are by any stretch, but people as a whole must get over it.

We have done so horribly bad under GW Bush, how can any of you knock this man, especially being Christians? We need to have as little involvement as possible with such issues anyway or else we will be further lulled to sleep.

You guys n gals dont think your in a deep enough of a sleep? We have more serious things to concern ourselves with than worrying about whether or not a AA man will run the country or whether if he is a nazi/ Come on brothers, we have an entire world, let alone the the US, we are in complete peril guys.

I understand that this is a forum to express opinions and thoughts, but as I said b4I will say it again we all need a relationship with Jesus Christ. This is absolutely miserable. Our days are about to come to a screeching halt and we are engaged in this cheap and senseless discussion.

This isn't just my opinion brothren, we really need the Presence of the Lord jesus in our lives and in the lives of this nation and world.

Even Brother Ravenhill or brother KAtz if they were here would tell us that u r wasting very precious time. I am not being holier than thou as some would suggest because many of u have heard from me b4.

Lets talk about if 5 or 10 of us can get together and declare a fast unto the Lord with prayer and pray throughout the weekend all around the clock putting our errands on hold, putting the TV and other worldly items away and just engulf ourselves into a sea of God. keeping in touch with one another throughout the prayer, we are in destitution and even many are in despair at this very moment. Nothing religious here, but sincerely want to seek God's face for our nation and condition....

With Love


 2008/6/13 1:27

Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy