We talk a good thing brothers but we do not want to suffer, we talk about agony, but agony of an authentic measure is too great for many of us, it will take only God, we are so preoccupied with life, agony and personal defeat is too much for us to bear..

just pray,

I believe that we need to pray individually, but Corporately all the more. there is power in the sincerity of numbers, I believe that!

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=13193&commentView=itemComments]A Spititual Voting Both[/url]

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CHRISTIAN

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Denver McDaniel

Hi everyone.



When Daniel stood before king Nebuchadnezzar(to interpret his dream), who had before put Daniel's friends into a furnace to burn them alive, he did not use the opportunity to rail against the king, or bring accusations against him, but called him 'lord.' This account is in Daniel chapter 4.




I think there is a danger that the things we say about our leaders are being cast upon God himself. Because the scriptures teach that He gives rulers their authority.




"This matter [i]is[/i] by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men."


- Daniel 4:19(KJV)



Pastor Richard Wurmbrand spent 14 years in a communist prison for his outspoken testimony of Christ. If I recall this correctly, he spent this time in a subterranean prison that was underneath the palace of the communist dictator. I have listened to his messages here on SI many times, and I do not recall hearing him speak evil about the dictator whose palace sat upon his torture cell.



Some thoughts, and wish you all well,


Chris



By the way, if any are interested, Pastor Wurmbrand's messages on SI are available [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=50]here[/url]

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Christopher Joel Dandrow

[i]At that time Herod the tetrarch heard of the fame of Jesus, And said unto his servants, This is John the Baptist; he is risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him.

For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife. For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her.

And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet.[/i] Mat 14:1-5

[i]And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not; John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. And many other things in his exhortation preached he unto the people.

But Herod the tetrarch, being reproved by him for Herodias his brother Philip's wife, and for all the evils which Herod had done,

Added yet this above all, that he shut up John in prison.[/i] Luk 3:15-20

As policy has it here on this forum the political realm is watched very closely and in large part frowned upon for a whole variety of reasons. [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14144&forum=13&start=10&viewmode=flat&order=1] MUST READ: SermonIndex Forum Disclaimer / Community Rules[/url]

With that in mind, I appeal to John The Baptist above for the apparent waffling that has and is taking place with this collusion and ... gobbledygook. What utter nonsense this all is.

Received the following yesterday in my in-box:

[url=http://www.strangreport.com/]Obama's "off-the-record" meeting with Christian leaders [/url]

What is the point in speaking "off-the-record" in partiality? It is on the level of "I can't really tell you what was said, but I will tell you what wasn't said about what was said?" Such nonsense!

Forget the politics of this madness and turn this back upon those so called leaders of present day Christianity. Abortion, better defined as murder. Beginning and end of story. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

It is a clever and diabolical thing that not only the world but even the 'Church' has allowed this to be termed an "issue" so it can be squared and quartered up against and along side all the other "issues" as one of many, as comparable and compatible to all the others. That it can be pushed aside, 'discussed' and left as to move on to the next ...

For whatever reason I have had this thought repeating itself back into my hearing; Anyone still remember [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates]Andrea Yates[/url]? What difference, better, why was she not set free for doing the very same thing that goes on by the millions every year in this country and countries across the world? Both killed their innocent children and yet only one is considered insane? Is it hyperbole? An exaggeration? Ridiculous?

So much more could be said and if anything, anything at all that might be said it is the [i]mindset[/i] of Christians in this hour and those supposed leaders that speak for Her, for the Church, that is practically flabbergasting. It comes back again to conscience and I must wonder just what it has been given over to ...

Not sure what to make of J. Lee Grady sometimes. Being that he is the editor of the same that was attended to by his boss ... Would to God that he (Grady) would speak more to the 'prophetic' nonsense that is churned out from his employer and must wonder if he doesn't peruse this very site itself sometimes ... But will let his own words speak; (This arrived just prior to the other yesterday).

[b]Obama, Jakes and the “Goose Bump” Factor[/b]

What kind of vibes did you feel when Barack Obama claimed the Democratic nomination?

Now that Hillary Clinton’s campaign has been kicked to the curb, the nation’s most powerful Democrat is steamrolling his way to the White House. The Obama machine is surging ahead with support from a huge army of young volunteers. And since John McCain isn’t doing much yet to attract the fractured evangelical voting bloc, Sen. Barack Hussein Obama will probably turn red states into blue ones in November.

A lot of people are excited about that possibility, including the nation’s most prominent African-American preacher, T.D. Jakes of Dallas. In a gushing endorsement, he told CNN last week that he “watched with visible goose bumps” as Obama claimed his party’s nomination. “This is not just a victory for African-Americans,” Jakes wrote, “it is a victory for democracy that proves that our country provides possibilities for all people.”

I’ll say amen to the fact that we are finally putting racism behind us. But I must admit that the goose bumps I felt last week were different from the ones Jakes experienced. I sensed sadness, and a bit of dread, as I realized that the people of the United States are hellbent on electing another leader who has no problem with killing unborn babies.

“It baffles me that liberals who pride themselves on being racially sensitive can get away with supporting a practice that destroys black families.”



Sorry for being so old-fashioned, but I think abortion is still a relevant issue.

Many Christians today say it’s politically impossible to elect a pro-life candidate. They’ve changed the channel. Opposing abortion is, like, so 1980s. Many young Christian voters love to quote the line that says, “There are other issues that are just as important”— listing the environment, food programs and ending the war in Iraq as the trendy new evangelical agenda.

At the risk of seeming out of touch with our Sex in the City culture, I’d like to mention three things to those Christians who are already plastering their cars with Obama bumper stickers:

1. Maintaining the current policy on abortion is not “change.” Obama promises change every time he makes a speech. He’s out to change our economy, our health care system and our foreign policy. He’s a one-man change agent. Yet whenever he has voted on the abortion issue, all he’s done is protect the right to kill our most vulnerable citizens. No innovation here. All he offers is the same old same old.

Everyone on Capitol Hill knows Obama is a radical when it comes to abortion policy. He opposed a ban on partial-birth abortion (a clinical term for stabbing a baby in the neck when his arms, legs and torso are already outside the mother); then he criticized the Supreme Court’s decision to uphold that ban. While an Illinois lawmaker, Obama opposed a bill that would have prevented the killing of an infant born alive during an abortion.

To top that off, Obama said in April that if his young daughters got pregnant out of wedlock, he didn’t want them to be “punished with a baby.” In other words, he wants the abortion industry to thrive.

2. Abortion is racist. African-American pastor Wellington Boone pointed out in an article in Charisma last month that 36 percent of all abortions in the United States are performed on black women—even though they make up only 12 percent of the population. And Obama is OK with that?

It baffles me that liberals who pride themselves on being racially sensitive can get away with supporting a practice that destroys black families. It’s equally baffling that when pro-life African-American politicians enter the political arena they are ignored rather than cheered with Obamaesque fervor. So not only do we kill black babies; we also silence black leaders who don’t worship at the altar of Molech.

3. Abortion contradicts the essence of Christianity. I have dialogued with young Christian voters who say they are supporting Obama because they believe he will bring justice to poor people who’ve never achieved the American dream. Who are we fooling with this empty talk about justice? Hello? The God of justice abhors the slaughter of unborn babies!

Many Christians who support Obama do so because he opposes the Iraq war. I respect their position about a muddled conflict that has lasted too long. But has anybody done the math?

The number of U.S. soldiers who have been killed in Iraq since 2002 currently stands at 4,092. Yet a slightly smaller number of unborn babies, approximately 3,900, die every day in this country because of abortion. Currently we kill 1.4 million babies a year. Since abortion was legalized we’ve snuffed out more babies than the entire populations of Iraq, Israel and Jordan.

That’s more than 40 million people. It’s a holocaust we deny ever happened.

The mantra of the 2008 Democratic contest has been “every vote counts.” Yet no one, including Obama, is talking about the rights of an unborn infant whose skull is about to be stabbed with scissors or whose brains are about to be sucked out with a vacuum tube. His tiny hands—complete with fingernails by 14 weeks—will certainly never be allowed to press a button in a ballot booth. That gives me goose bumps.

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Do note the emphesis if it is not apparent enough. The matter is abortion, not politics nor the so called 'politics' thereof.

We talk often of Revival here in this setting and it is often termed "Awakening" ...



"The Revival Hymn"
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(Ian Paisley)

[i]The church of Jesus Christ is largely sleeping, like a great bedroom and you have all the Christians in bed and they’re all sleeping ... and they’re saying "Please, don't wake me up! I want to sleep on!" And of course when God starts to operate a revival people cannot sleep, you can't sleep in church when the Spirit of God awakes the people. Look at the 1st verse of this 52nd chapter..."Awake! Awake! Put on strength!" Wake it up! You're sleepy Christians! Awake thou that sleepeth, Arise from the dead! Christ will give you life![/i]

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Mike Balog

Thank you crsschk: for an awesome article, and in light of current controversies, for naming names. It's stunning to think that we as Americans have come to the place that we would even consider Abortion as a National Right. It is simply the opposite of the right to life. It is the right to murder.

How can we call ourselves a Christian Nation with a strait face, and how could any Christian vote for such a candidate? It is an oxymoron. Good is evil and evil is good. Darkness is light, and light is darkness. A Christian supporting a infant murderer as their leader! America is fallen!


When Joshua entered the promise land, and the Angel of the Lord, [JESUS HIMSELF], stood before him, Joshua cried;" Are you for us, or for our adversaries?"


The Lord replied, "I am neither for you , or against you. Loose your sandelstraps, for the place where you stand is Holy."


Jesus demands worship in any situation, ;War or Peace, our allegiance is to Him first and alone!

He is neither Republican or Democrat, Jew nor gentile. He is God, and demands the Worship due Him. He rules alone. "I AM.. the Way the TRUTH and the Life. "WORSHIP ME!".


Thank you again crsschk. This needed to be said, and by the leadership of Sermonindex. If others had done so, this would have been hidden by rolls of over posts crying foul, for reasons of heresy hunting, disrespect, and the politically correct venue. Thank you for naming names, and sounding a clear trumpet.

If the millions of us had done so, 35 years ago, the foul stench of Molech and Sodom would not today be filling or streets with blood, and our pulpits with greedy compromisers.

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Mike Compton

"Why not? He and his party, along with the feminists, PLATFORM on the slaughter of the innocents...to the tune of 1.6 million a year in this country alone...those numbers are greater than Hitler and Stalin and Khan put together. The thinking is more disgusting and twisted than those monsters when we murder the unborn because we see them as a "punishment" (Quoting the Ill. senator)" BeYeDoers

I understand the anger here, especially when we take the side of 'life' as we should. But I can't blame one party or another with the ills of our society. Sin is sin and both parties engage in the practice....just as the church has.

But judgment will start with us....the church has failed miserably and that is part of our problem. Christians and the church have been under the delusion that the voting booth is the way to change when they spend more time there than in their prayer closets. And if we do pray, they are prayers to put righteous leadership here or there instead of asking God to reveal our sins to our leaders whoever they are. Daniel confessed for 21 days the sins of himself first then for his nation and was heard. He didn't ask for a 'change of the guard', he knew Babylon was a judgment upon them and prayed in this divine perspective.

We can blame 'feminism' if we want but I reject the fact that feminism rose from a certain party or a 'certain liberalism'. No, as a man and as a man of the church I blame myself and men of God. Men have been abusing their authority over women for years and men of God have used the Bible to enslave women rather than live up to our own Biblical obligations towards them. We reap what we sow. There are times when I can't tell the difference between a man of God and a secular friend in terms of how they treat their wives. Pastors have abused their authority to ensnare weak willed women to abuse them sexually and take advantage of them financially. As men of the church we have failed tremendously so I can't justify a blanket accusation of feminism or any other ism in that sense. Divorce rates are just as high for Christians for a reason and men are 50% of that problem today. Sin is the problem.

And in the name of the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR we make deals with communist countries, while we denounce communism, whose abortion rates and human rights standards are absolutely deplorable (ie.. China). Some Arabic countries sell children as sex slaves but we look the other way for the sake of our economy... we've sold out for cheap affordable goods. And if the church was doing its part helping the homeless, giving to the needy, taking care of the sick and all that is required of us then our light would shine brighter than political ideologies. As a church our opinions are fierce but our light is dim. Whose going to help this country when all of the 'political influence' is coming from the Word of Faith camp? T.D Jakes is nothing compared to Robertson (who by the way supported Giuliani) Ted Haggard or Ralph Reed. Haggard shakes hand with the current President in the spirit of morality, and Ralph Reed headed The Christian Coalition before his greed interfered. The so-called church is a big part of the problem folks. The Catholics even tout morality as their priest are involved in heanous sexual sins. Then they send the priests across the country and offer bribes to victims for a cover up. Yet they want a say in the political realm in the name of morality. Isn't this beyond the 'two party political system'?

I'm all for standing up for the innocent and the defenseless but to cast blanket blame without looking to the failure of ourselves first is getting too convenient these days.

How many of us are praying for women who may be contemplating abortion?

How many of us are praying for our leadership to be enlightened to their sinful perspectives?

How many of us are praying for the Lord to forgive our country for doing business with oppressive nations for the sake of money?

How many of us are praying for the elderly shut-ins or the children who have been sold as sex slaves?

How many of us are praying for the oppressive dictators who have to power to kill and destroy with mass weaponry?

I don't have all the answers and I fail in many areas myself but that doesn't preclude the truth of what really ails us.

Hi Mike…

I appreciate your post. I have long wrestled with any sort of involvement in “politics.” I have heard so many believers willing to share their ideas concerning the limits of how they believe a Christian should interact (usually presented as though those ideas came straight from God himself, rather than distinguishing these as ideas about what [i]they believe[/i] the Bible says). To me, such involvement does not reflect a desire to be a part of this world’s system. It simply wants to use the medium (government) to express “holy anger” and spiritual “common sense” regarding a number of issues that are constantly pushed by certain groups in this nation. Of course, chief amongst these is the sin of [u]abortion[/u].

Abortion will probably continue in the United States for some time. Why? For one, the media reports on it as though anyone who is opposed to abortion is a “crazy fanatic” who is “not based in reality.” In truth, however, abortion is restricted or illegal in a majority of the nations of the world. In fact, only a handful of nations permit abortion as a means of birth control (with the greatest number coming from the United States and Canada). Here is a [url=http://www.pregnantpause.org/lex/world02map.htm]current map[/url] that reflects the abortion laws of the world.

However, abortion will continue because those who are most opposed to it are often the ones most unwilling to speak out. Christians often remain silent in the Athenian forum of this nation’s policies. Why? This can be because of fear (those who don’t want to be ostracized for their views). It can be that some simply feel that it is unbiblical to involve one’s self with the “affairs of this world” (although they often are the first people to drive on public roads, use tax deductions, cash tax rebate checks or utilize other “government” perks).

Mike, your post reminded me of Keith Green’s song, “[i]A Billion Starving People[/i].”

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Christopher

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Christiaan