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Lor_E
Member



Joined: 2006/12/23
Posts: 248
Montana USA

 Treasure

Looking through the text sermons I looked up Mary Wilder Tileston. I did not recognize her name, but thought it might be interesting to check out the articles there.

It must have come from a devotional, but there were quotes there that were abosolute pearls, hidden away in this wonderful resource!

One of my favorites:

Quote:
THOU givest within and without precisely what the soul needs for its advancement in a life of faith and self-renunciation. I have then only to receive this bread, and to accept, in the spirit of self-sacrifice, whatever Thou shalt ordain, of bitterness in my external circumstances, or within my heart. For whatever happens to me each day is my daily bread, provided I do not refuse to take it from Thy hand, and to feed upon it.
FRANCOIS DE LA MOTHE FÉNELON



Since one of the things that I have been learning of late is specifically regarding the daily lessons [i]within[/i] day to day life, day to day struggle, day to day glories, daily bread, it has been on my heart so much. I was then so thrilled to read this particular exhortation!

(I just happened that morning to be awake at 4am, so I had a few extra moments to look around a bit more. I don't usually have much opportunity to simply browse around.)

I'm sure that many others have found such treasures buried within this site, and I know many are shared on this forum. Yet, I felt compelled to share this wonderful gem that I had found!

Thank you for the opportunity, [i]the rare opportunity[/i] of having such a resource so readily available!

Love in Christ,
Lori


_________________
Lori Salyer

 2008/5/31 13:42Profile









 Re: Treasure...Jesus made a way for the weakling like me....

Fenelon says "we are to live a life of faith
[b]AND[/b] renunciation , in a spirit of self sacrifice". There is a fundamental error in the spirit of this teaching, that directs and causes one to look to the renunciation, and self sacrifice as the means to find the Father. It's
results are a super spiritual, monastic lifestyle and inner doctrine that focus on the man and his sacrifice, rather on the Risen Savior, and His willing sacrifice.

It views life with the fatalistic ideas that I must endure life, and the often, "bitterness of my external circumstances," and implies that this suffering is my atonement.[that's the self sacrifice part.] The Words of Jesus and the New Testament direct us to obey, and to submit to His discipline, NOT to live a life of self sacrifice. The Words of Jesus direct us to Love himself, and the Father, and our saved , born again family. These are our Brothers and Sisters, that live in the world of teenagers and diapers and jobs and bills.

Herein the sacrifices of God are born. We learn to love God, and our neighbor. We then in this loving see that we cannot, and by loving Him, we must diminish, and yes, even die to our natures, to find Him, to possess Him.

The Catholic separate and super-spiritual monastic system, taught to endorse the idea of a separate Priesthood is the granddaddy of this type of thinking. The fancy name for it is Stoicism. It is not rooted in Chritianity, or living a life of Faith, and I am sorry to say, a tool that Satan himself has used to enslave a Billion people today. If you are a partaker of the Holy Spirit, you are a priest, and you are made holy by the blood of Jesus, as you confess and forsake your Sin, unto One Mediator, the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth, and Him only.

All we need, and the thing that He desires, is to Honor Him, and learn to please Him, not to focus on our sacrifice, but His, for we will fail'

The gospel was designed for weaklings, and the common of the world, and is not isolated in some sacrificial hall, or lifestyle. Beware when anything seems to draw you away from this. Herein is the heart of meekness and Joy. My goal is just to be a good brother, and serve my family right where the common of the Earth are, and make Jesus happy while I'm doing it. I fail alot, but my trust is in His atonement, when I fail often.

 2008/5/31 18:25
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: Treasure

Fene`lon is one of my favorites. What he is
saying is Let God direct and ordain the circum-
stances of your life because He is sovereign!!


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2008/5/31 19:02Profile









 Re: Fenelon



It would appear that way.

 2008/5/31 21:51









 Re: Fenelon: A brilliant Catholic Bishop, mystic, and heretic.

Fenelon was a Catholic Bishop, in his day, over about 800 parishes,[circa 1690]and those among the most important in France. He was a staunch defender of all manner of Catholic doctrine, and of course, the Vatican and the Pope. He was an avid mystic, and sometimes friend of Madame Guyon, and also condemned her, when her radical meditative practices stepped on the toes of the Pope. {He was on the counsel that betrayed her]


There is no reason to go into the horrors of the Catholic church here, any more than there is for me to accept the insights of one so obviously warped. These writings are the fruit of a religious spirit that would direct the simple into a path where all grace has disappeared, as I have stated in my post.

Sounds real spiritual, but there are subtle chains in these ideas, about the sacrificial life, and as I said "Stoicism," that will bind you , not free you.

If you would like to hear Godly poetry, give Charles Wesley a shot. He knew Jesus. Fenelon was an unbeliever.

 2008/5/31 23:05
Lor_E
Member



Joined: 2006/12/23
Posts: 248
Montana USA

 Re:

Dear Bro. Tom,
Thank you for your concern, and for your information. That was one of the questions I was going to ask about, is if you knew something about this person more than I. Since I had never heard of this person before.

I am certainly [b]not[/b] an advocate for the catholic church.

As I stated in my original post, I found the "day to day" to be worthwhile at this point in my walk. The things that found attractive about this quote was two-fold.

1. A simple reminder that everything that is needed to form us into what we [b]need[/b] to be is readily available, as all things that pertain to life and godliness. Of which self denial- not in the sense of monastic self punishment; rather in the sense of denying one's own fleshly desire to rule over ones self, to have thier own way.

As in:
"If any man will come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." Lk 9:23

Of which Matthew Henry says:
[i]We must accustom ourselves to all instance of self-denial and patience. We must not indulge our ease and appetite, for then it will be hard to bear toil, and weariness, and want, for Christ. We frequently meet with crosses in the way of duty; and, though we must not pull them upon our own heads, yet, when they are laid for us, we must take them up, carry them after Christ, and make the best of them.[/i]

"Now we know that all things work together for good...."

2. "Giving thanks always for [b]all things[/b] unto God and the Father in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ."

Life is not always exciting, or fun, or pleasurable; but when I find within my day to day life God's hand of divine intervention, then whatever is held within my day becomes something for me to learn from. Even from your response.

And I am thankful!

In Christ,
Lori


_________________
Lori Salyer

 2008/6/1 12:43Profile









 Re: Dirty Apple.



To the pure, all things are pure. Jesus said of the Pharisees, "Do, as they say, [ for they sit in the seat of Moses,], but do not as they do, for they are hypocrites."


Much of this "deeper life" Catholic writing has a sense of deep devotion, and virtue, but impregnated within, a subtle underpinning of self duty and self sacrifice to attain it, and then, of course, follows it's doctrines. These, if believed, will carry on to the lake of fire, for the deceived.


The "madonna", or Catholic "Mary", that is the adored and worshipped, and the Mediator for this Hellish Cult, is nothing less than an ancient and foul Demon that sits above, absorbing worship from the enslaved. Often, seekers like you , may be intrigued by the radical sense of devotion these mystics have, and not realize that their devotion only stems from a radical reality of their own awful enslavement to these ancient devils.


Of course, when they sit in that temple, declaring themselves to be God, they could not reveal their true face. They appear as angels of light, and tighten their chains slowly, and use words that may or may not be implanted with multiple meanings, like, "A sacrificial life."

You see, if I begin to be obsessed with living this way, as a means to God, I am my Saviour, and these "ascended ones", [saints, and "mary."] are just my dutiful helpers. It leads to more and more "sacrifice", and separation from the common.

One fellow lived on top of a pole, never descending for several decades. Many , in this "deeper faith", whip themselves violently and with much blood letting, to atone for their obvious lack of deep worship unto God.[many have bled to death,] and some actually allow themselves to be crucified, with real nails.

I doubt that Peter was crucified upside down, "for he believed he was not worthy "right side up"....Nonsense!..another myth to instill the reflection of our own unworthiness, and to blaze a flow of our own sacrifice to please a God of holiness! These writings are rife with such a spirit, and they are foul , a stench in the nose of the Creator.


They begin by "Has God Said?", "You can find Him on these terms. Have a nibble."

 2008/6/2 11:44
Lor_E
Member



Joined: 2006/12/23
Posts: 248
Montana USA

 Re:

Quote:
Often, seekers like you , may be intrigued by the radical sense of devotion these mystics have, and not realize that their devotion only stems from a radical reality of their own awful enslavement to these ancient devils.



Dear Tom,
Just to be clear... I am not a "seeker". I have already FOUND what is necessary for life and salvation. The Lord Jesus Christ does not need any help from anyone writer or speaker to create a "deeper life". It IS by the Spirit of God ALONE that anyone can ever have Life and learn anything that is of spiritual value.

[i]but though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.[/i]

That does not mean that I will refuse to recognize the soulish nature of humankind and the absolute pride and deceptionthat they hold themselves in regardless of whether it is in this manner or that manner.

There are people all around this world who are decieved by many things, whereas some believe that they can beat themselves up whether by fleshly or imaginary means that they are "attaining" to godliness, which is totally rediculous!

On the other hand, there are those within more "modern" belief systems that think that because they simply attend a Sunday service, pay tithes, and "talk a spiritual talk" that they are really [b]the godly[/b] in the world. Taking for granted every grace, living as though everything they think and do is fine.

If we as Christ centered people, Christ's followers, Christ's believers were to stand in the Light,as He is in the light- and IS the light, and allow our hearts and minds to be judged [b]now[/b] while walking on this earth, instead of walking in disregard for the holiness of God, what kind of an impact would the name "Christian" have in this world?

NO doubt, those that believe that any religious forms of self denial are somehow "spiritual" are deceived; but so are those that refuse to look at the reality of the works of their own flesh made evident on every hand, in every way in their lives.

If it were not so, then those who make their living off of the covetous practices in this country would have to find another business, at least towards the "Christian market".
The list of the evidences are too long to express here.


_________________
Lori Salyer

 2008/6/2 12:54Profile









 Re:A beatle at the bottom of the TREASURE!


It is certainly not an insult to be called a seeker, especially in the context of going on to know the Lord. I hope I will always be in that category, and I did not mean it as an insult to you. "The Lord has never forsaken ANYONE who seeks Him."



2]. No. the Lord Jesus does not need any help in creating a "deeper life" in people, but sometimes we do. That is why Jesus put teachers in the body, and why you come hear to listen and absorb Truth at sermonindex.

3] My comments about the excesses of "devotion" that may develop from these heresies, were to accentuate the maturity of the fruit that may develop by accepting something as innocuous as "sacrificial", in the context of obedience to Jesus of Nazareth as truth, and then incorporating that into your belief and devotional lifestyle. It will kill you, in the end.


4] In the same way as you generalize the expression, "We, as Christians...", I post and express my views in a general manner, as I define truth through my thoughts, maturity and emotions. These are not personal. They are not directed toward you, lor-e, as an individual.


5]I agree with your assessment of the modern Church, in general, we're in big trouble, being shaken at every corner. Yet, I was assessing a subtlety of a Spirit, that has enslaved one billion people, [b]Today[/b]. Because the nature of it has always been the same, the 400 year old writings of some of it's devotee's are read today, and some may assume that this spirit is the way to a deeper experience to the Father.


I was merely pointing out, in a general manner, as an expression of truth to me, the underlying thoughts that are so wicked, and have ensnared so many.


6]. "Christ centeredness" Those that are eventually captured by Papal dominion considered their quest as one for Christ; salvation. They did not sign up to become an emissary for the Devil, but they ended there. All Christians should continually seek a Jesus centered life. It is absolutely logical, yet the Devil eats babies, and some may assume that what is being held in front of them [b]IS[/b] that, when indeed it is the evil opposite.


The spirit of my post, I hope, was not to identify you as one easily deceived, merely in that you posted a few lines from a spiritual poem. My hope was to identify a grievous error in the way we think about ATONEMENT, which in turn is fundamental in the way we think about Christ Jesus, and our worship of Him. The poem in question, happened to emulate that in a most subtle way.

I appreciate your insights also, as you point out the same in the Hypocrisy of the same [b]RELIGIOUS[/b] spirit in Protestantism today that will kill you just the same. Satan has a forked tongue. He licks the fire at the same time from both ends. Kinda like politics.

 2008/6/2 15:17
Lor_E
Member



Joined: 2006/12/23
Posts: 248
Montana USA

 Re:

Quote:
It is certainly not an insult to be called a seeker, especially in the context of going on to know the Lord. I hope I will always be in that category, and I did not mean it as an insult to you. "The Lord has never forsaken ANYONE who seeks Him."



Quote:
a few lines from a spiritual poem. My hope was to identify a grievous error in the way we think about ATONEMENT, which in turn is fundamental in the way we think about Christ Jesus, and our worship of Him. The poem in question, happened to emulate that in a most subtle way.



I apologize for my tone. I interpreted a “seeker” to be someone who is not necessarily seeking God, but merely some sort of spiritual truth wherever that may lead them. (I have spoken with many people who consider themselves “seekers” which have established this definition for me.)

I had no poem, as I said in my original post it was merely a quote which I found in the sermonindex “text sermons” area. Written/compiled by a woman I had never heard of, and this was only 1 of many quotes there that were speaking in regards to the daily walk (in many of the very short sections underneath her name).

Having read over and over again this particular quote in light of the quote itself, I do not find anything referring to “atonement”, rather a speaking of advancement in a life of faith..... one of which has already begun. Further, as I have mentioned before, self denial is not simply a catholic doctrine; rather an abuse of the term, in its more fanatical forms of strange behavior and doctrines.

Which seems of course to be a great “trick” of the devil, to use Biblical terms and words and distort them to the point that their correct meanings are obscured. ( probably similar to my “seeker” definition.) Many have a hard time with various words such as “faith”, “faith healers”, “walk of faith”; “holy”, “holiness”, “a walk of holiness”; “sacrifice”; “tongues”; “praise and worship”; “submit”, “submission”, “a submissive spirit”; “law”, “lawfully”; “the old testament”; the list goes on and on..... On these issues: even though there are some who have distorted the “true” meaning; it does not negate the actuality of it.

Of course since you had prior knowledge of the author of this quote, you had an awareness as to it’s perhaps “subtler language”. Although if it had not had this name attached to it, would you have still thought that “and” represented such dark thoughts to it?

Now, just so you know, I am not trying to defend the author of this quote; only that a quote within the simple context of a quote can still teach one something (I’m referring of course in a more general sense, as well).

I have learned many things from many sources, the quotes of children, even scientists and non believers; there are so many kinds of voices in this world, and none without significance. Now as to what the significance [b]is[/b] within each voice, that is a different thing.

Actually, the treasure that I was thinking of was sermonindex, and the gem that I thought that I found had a flaw. Now that does not mean that it still does not have significance for me, but it does mean that I will be much more careful in how I express it.

Again, thanks for the concern, I appreciate it.

Lori


_________________
Lori Salyer

 2008/6/3 7:34Profile





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