SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Access over 100,000+ Sermons from Ancient to Modern
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Personal Election (not corporate)

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 Next Page )
PosterThread
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them [b]that obey[/b] him;



[b]that obey[/b] ~ G5219

ὑπακούω
hupakoúō; fut. hupakoúsō, from hupó (G5259), and akoúō (G191), to hear. To hearken, obey.

(I) To listen to something, hearken with stealth, stillness, or attention in order to answer (Act_12:13).

(II) To yield to a superior command or force (without necessarily being willing).

(A) Of the wind and sea tempest (Mat_8:27; Mar_4:41; Luk_8:25).

(B) Of unclean spirits (Mar_1:27).

(C) Of a sycamine tree (Luk_17:6).

(III) To believe (Act_6:7; Rom_10:16; 2Th_1:8).

(IV) To yield to one's passions giving them the upper hand (Rom_6:12, Rom_6:16).

(V) To obey God irresistably (Heb_5:9).

(VI) Of children's obedience to parents (Eph_6:1; Col_3:20).

(VII) Of slaves to their masters (Eph_6:5; Col_3:22).

(VIII) To obey an apostle (Phi_2:12; 2Th_3:14).

(IX) Obedience by Abraham (Heb_11:8).

(X) Obedience of Sarah to Abraham (1Pe_3:6).


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/5/26 3:47Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:

wisevirgin wrote:
Arminian Grace

(to the tune of "Amazing Grace")

v1
Arminian "grace!"
How strange the sound,
Salvation hinged on me.
I once was lost then turned around,
Was blind then chose to see.

v2
What "grace" is it that calls for choice,
Made from some good within?
That part that wills to heed God's voice,
Proved stronger than my sin.

v3
Thru many ardent gospel pleas,
I sat with heart of stone.
But then some hidden good in me,
Propelled me toward my home.

v4
When we've been there ten thousand years,
Because of what we've done,
We've no less days to sing our praise,
Than when we first begun.

Dennis Walter Cochran



This may seem cute but it does nothing to further conversation. It sounds like this guy is either ignorant of what Arminus or any classical Arminian taught or purposely misrepresenting it.

EDIT: I don't mean to come off as a "stick in the mud" but this song doesn't represent what Arminians have classically believed.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2008/5/27 12:49Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
wisevirgin wrote:
Arminian Grace

(to the tune of "Amazing Grace")

v1
Arminian "grace!"
How strange the sound,
Salvation hinged on me.

The grace is only to those who choose to acknowledge that which is evident to all, sinner and saint.
People don't receive grace because they shun it, not because it is not to them.
In contrast, those who receive grace because they take it, not because it is only for them.

Quote:
I once was lost then turned around,
Was blind then chose to see.

That is the hole purpose of the Gosple, so they might willfully choose.

Quote:
v2
What "grace" is it that calls for choice,
Made from some good within?

Obedience to that which is commanded is not a merit to be called "good".

Quote:
That part that wills to heed God's voice,
Proved stronger than my sin.

The sin would be not to heed God's voice.

Quote:
v3
Thru many ardent gospel pleas,
I sat with heart of stone.
But then some hidden good in me,
Propelled me toward my home.

It would be that "gospel plea" which softend the heart to answer the call.

Quote:
v4
When we've been there ten thousand years,
Because of what we've done,

That which we've done was what we were supposed to do. [b]Luke 17:9-10[/b] [color=990000]So likewise you, when you shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.[/color]

Quote:
We've no less days to sing [b]our[/b] praise,

He will say, "well done, good and faithful servant...
He will praise us.

Furthermore, I could rewrite a song also to bring out the rediculousness of Calvinists which would bring their doctrin to shame as you did here.

 2008/5/27 14:52Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
boG wrote:
In terms of faith, I would explain it differently.

Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Now let us compare this same statement to another Scripture ...

Colossians 1:27, "which is Christ in you, the hope of glory"

The hope here is "glory" and the substance of that faith is "Christ in you

Substance is always tangible, Christ in you is not, unless the one who has "Christ in them" does something tangible [b]because[/b] Christ is in them.

I would wrather define this verse as the following:
[b]Hebrews 11:1[/b] [color=990000]Now faith is the [b]substance[/b] of things hoped for, the [b]evidence[/b] of things not seen.[/color]
In other words: faith is substantial evidence(tangable evidence) of our hope, which is a correct response to God in all things.

This hope is not just a wish but a knowledge in which we actualy wait for.
1Timothy 1:1b [color=990000]...and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is our hope.[/color]
Romans 8:23-24

What is the "substantial evidence" of which this hope brings?
It is the work of faith(Jamess 2:115-17 & 1John 3:17).
What are works of faith?
Works are the fruit of righteousness. In other words, a changed life, a new view on life, and a new motive for everything that you do. In these new aspects of your life will become actions or works that give a testimony of [b]Christ in you[/b] the Hope of Glory!!!

 2008/5/27 15:06Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Logic wrote:

"""Substance is always tangible, Christ in you is not, unless the one who has "Christ in them" does something tangible because Christ is in them.

I would wrather define this verse as the following:
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
In other words: faith is substantial evidence(tangable evidence) of our hope, which is a correct response to God in all things.

This hope is not just a wish but a knowledge in which we actualy wait for.
1Timothy 1:1b ...and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is our hope.
Romans 8:23-24

What is the "substantial evidence" of which this hope brings?
It is the work of faith(Jamess 2:115-17 & 1John 3:17).
What are works of faith?
Works are the fruit of righteousness. In other words, a changed life, a new view on life, and a new motive for everything that you do. In these new aspects of your life will become actions or works that give a testimony of Christ in you the Hope of Glory!!!"""


It is the Faith of Christ in us that is tangible and without His Faith our faith is dead works, with no substance, not tangible to the perfection we have only because of the Christ that in in us, our only hope of Glory.
Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

How are we perfect?

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

On top of the "Tangible", Faith of Jesus Christ in us, It is His working in us that makes the Faith come forth with power and revealing of Christ to the world, which are the greater works of Christ being done through the Saints, which we can only do in and through Him.

Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Then James' faith without works is come forth as the works of Christ in the believer which shows our faith. The Faith of Christ in you.

Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Who's Faith am I showing? Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

How does Christ profit us nothing?
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

If by anything I do I believe that it has anything to do with my salvation being circumcised unto works of the Law, I have left my first Love and do not accept His Faith in me, and He profits me nothing.

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

He profits me, In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2008/5/27 18:09Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Christinyou wrote:
Quote:
Logic wrote:
What are works of faith?
Works are the fruit of righteousness. In other words, a changed life, a new view on life, and a new motive for everything that you do. In these new aspects of your life will become actions or works that give a testimony of Christ in you the Hope of Glory!!!

It is the Faith of Christ in us that is tangible and without His Faith our faith is dead works, with no substance, not tangible to the perfection we have only because of the Christ that in in us, our only hope of Glory.

Huh?
What is this "faith [b]of[/b] Christ" stuff?

Is it His actaul faith?
Or is it like the faith He portrayed and gave example of?
I can understand the latter, but the first, is nonsence.

Furthermore, how is "His faith" any more tangible that what I said?

Quote:
Who's Faith am I showing? Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

No one understands what you are talking about.

We have our own faith.
We should have the same "[b]kind[/b]" of faith that Jesus He portrayed and gave example of, but, we can not have His actual faith which HE would have posessed if HE did have faith.

Faith is the assent of the mind, how is it posible to have someone elses assent of someone elses mind?

Anyway, we are not talking about what faith and who's faith, but we are talking about the standard of judgment or criticism which God uses to decide whom He will elect or not elect.

What rule or guiding sense of requirements does God use for evaluating or testing those whom will elect or not elect?

 2008/5/27 20:29Profile
boG
Member



Joined: 2008/5/21
Posts: 349
Las Vegas, NV

 Re: tangible evidence

Awake, Thou That Sleepest by [b]Rev. Charles Wesley[/b]

(Preached on Sunday April 4, 1742, before the University of Oxford.)

[ ... ]
6. Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you, and suffer ye the word of exhortation, even from one the least esteemed in the Church. Your conscience beareth you witness in the Holy Ghost, that these things are so, if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. "[u]This is eternal life, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent." [b]This experimental knowledge[/b][/u], and this alone, is true Christianity. he is a Christian who hath received the Spirit of Christ. he is not a Christian who hath not received him. [b]Neither is it possible to have received him, and not know it[/b]. "For, at that day" (when he cometh, saith our Lord), "ye shall know that I am in My Father, [b]and you in Me, and I in you.[/b]" This is that "Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you" (John 14:17).


It is a mistake to think of salvation as "physical tangible" evidence. This is simple not proper. For this is that "Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive." Just as the anointing oil was never to be poured out onto the flesh but was, indeed, poured out over the head and running down the beard and garments (Psalm 133). Neither is it something to be grasped with the hands but rather "Your conscience beareth you witness in the Holy Ghost, that these things are so", or again, Romans 8:16, "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God."


How can Christ be in you and you not know it?
Is this not substantiating, or evidential?


If you are to consider the words of James, "faith without works is dead." Then allow me to illustrate something for you.

John 6
28. [...] they said to Him, "What shall we do, [b]so that we may[/b] work the works of God?"
29. Jesus answered and said to them, "[b][u]This is the work of God[/u][/b], that you [b]believe in Him whom He has sent[/b]."

The people asked "so that we may work the works". They wanted to know what they must do to be prepared or acceptable to do the works of God. They wanted to know what work they needed to do before they could do God's work.

Jesus told them "This is The work of God"! It is to believe in Jesus, the Christ, whom the Father has sent.

If this is the work of God, as Jesus said, and we already know that faith is born of God (1 John), then it is true that "faith without works is dead."

As it says in Hebrews 4:2,
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: [u]but the word preached did not profit them[/u], [b]not being mixed with faith in them[/b] that heard it.

This is "[b]The Root[/b] of the Righteous" (title of an excellent A.W. Tozer book).

These things you have said are "[b]the fruit[/b] of righteousness."

Quote:
What are works of faith?
Works are the fruit of righteousness. In other words, a changed life, a new view on life, and a new motive for everything that you do. In these new aspects of your life will become actions or works that give a testimony of Christ in you the Hope of Glory!!!




Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.


Roots will always bring forth fruits (both inward works and outward works) in accordance to the source of its life. To the one that has the Seed of the Word planted in them: that Seed shall put down roots. One may plant, and another may water, but it is God who causes the growth. The branch that comes forth (Matthew 13:23) needs to be found in the True Vine (John 15), Who is the True Source of Life.


John 15:8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye [u][b]bear much fruit[/b][/u]; so shall [b]ye be my disciples[/b].

John 13:35. By this shall all men know that [b]ye are my disciples[/b], if [u]ye have love one to another[/u].

This is the "fruit of righteousness" that is meant to be given in the same measure which we also did receive it from our Father of Light above (Luke 6:38, "give and it shall be given" and this is not talking about money as I have heard recently and so often).


John 13:34, "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; [b]as I have loved you[/b], that ye also love one another."
John 14:9, "As the Father hath loved me, [b]so have I loved you[/b]: continue ye in my love."


The "root of the righteous" is Christ Jesus.
The "fruit of righteousness" is to abide in Christ Jesus and He in us, that we may be one; as He is One with the Father (John 17). Hid in Christ, in God.


Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.


Hebrews 10
23. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
24. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


[b]Read Matthew 25[/b]. Physical works, or "doing something tangible," is not a perfect witness (though it is indeed [b]a[/b] witness) of Christ in you, as we read.

However, the crime of [b]the goats[/b] was that everything they did do was "for" God.

While [b]the sheep[/b] did everything "with" God.


_________________
Jordan

 2008/5/27 20:50Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

"""We have our own faith.
We should have the same "kind" of faith that Jesus He portrayed and gave example of, but, we can not have His actual faith which HE would have posessed if HE did have faith."""


"we have our own faith"? True and where did it get us? If it is our faith, why the Cross and death of Christ, Israel had their own faith and they did not make it, did they?

It is simple and man wants to make it his faith that saves him, when God Gave His Son because He knew our faith would not save us, so He supplies the only Faith that will save us and that is the Faith of Jesus Christ in you "the hope of Glory".

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

What was foreordained? Ephesians 1:3-14 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Then by His Faith is our faith quickened and our bodies quickened and we know have Faith, Hope, and Love. Who is our Faith in and from? Who is our Hope and Love from? It is certainly not of ourselves, for we were all dead and lost in our trespasses and sin.

Now that Faith has come, what is our works of Him that is in us?

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Who's Faith? Certainly not ours.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
1722. en
Search for G1722 in KJVSL
en en en
a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between 1519 and 1537); "in," at, (up-)on, by, etc.:--about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-)by (+ all means), for (... sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-)in(-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of,

Galatians 3:23-29 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

My own faith? I think not and believe it is not my faith and cannot be, it can only be the Faith of Christ that saves and keeps on saving. Not the doctrine of man by he works and his faith.

The Faith of Christ which became their faith when the believed and the only way they could believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, now has become their life and their all in all in Christ Jesus their Faith, Hope and Love and their All in All. The clay could not create itself, the Potter gave Grace and Faith, that the dead in Satan might have life in Christ.

Are you a vessel of Grace and Faith? Or are you a vessel of sin and death, believing a lie and were given over to a reprobate mind that goes its own way and works for me and my father satan, my way, my choice and my nature, or am I a product of the Potter created in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world to be in the Faith, Love and Hope and life of Jesus Christ, who on the Cross gave His life to purchase and posses for God, son's for His house.

Your faith is failing if it is not the Faith of The Son of God, because your faith will always fail and return to its own nature which is Satan's faith bought and paid for by the first Adam, which keeps us from God the Father and condemns us to hell.

His Faith is securing our daily walk in Christ by His Faith and His Cross and His Blood, and His all in all.

His Faith? Yes, Praise God.

The Last Adam. 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

First man Adam, now a dead soul in Satan.

"The Last Adam, now the Quickening Spirit" of Life and Hope in Christ Jesus.

Our only hope and glory. Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Who is the Potter looking upon, this peace of clay that He would even put His hands upon me and make me clean in His Son, me who deserves death and destruction, that He would take the care to put This Son in me and give me the Glory that the Son has by seating me with Him beside You Oh My Father. Lord What would you have me to do to give me thanks. For you have seen in me that which is Good by the Christ in me even before the foundation of the World that I might even be called a son of The Living God.

It is His Faith not ours. Specifically the Faith of the Son of God that was birthed in us at the moment of Salvation. It is Christ and Christ alone that has saved me and will keep me saved until I as His workmanship am revealed in Christ when He comes.

Faith of God. Amen. Faith of Christ. Amen

Which is not My Faith, in Christ: Phillip






_________________
Phillip

 2008/5/27 21:24Profile









 Re: Arminius

Many are ignorant of what Arminius taught.

If more knew what he himself taught rather than what has been passed along as arminius' doctrine they'd be shocked at the least.

Carried to its end, Arminius himself as well as the Remonstrants of the present day, and also those who claim arminianism as biblicism today who are most ignorant of classic or historic arminianism, duly exalt man, his ability and will, either knowingly or unknowingly, whereas those who are not ignorant of his systematic theology and consequently deny and refute it, are those who exalt God as God over all His works.

Ultimately, the whole of the argument hinges upon man, his free will, and God and His will being subservient to the former regarding that salvation which the Gospel of God, which is to the praise of His Glorious Grace, has wrought.

Those who have reckoned with such 'doctrines of men & devils' cannot but loathe and repudiate them. May we do so with the utmost humility.

As for these men who wrote these songs I have posted on this thread, or any others, they are but expressing their intolerance against any attempt by wicked man's nature to obscure God's Glorious Grace.

For those who the Grace of God is everything, everything that touches that Holy Ark must be crucified.

John 6:63 the Spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything...

 2008/5/28 1:30
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:

wisevirgin wrote:
Many are ignorant of what Arminius taught.

If more knew what he himself taught rather than what has been passed along as arminius' doctrine they'd be shocked at the least.

Carried to its end, Arminius himself as well as the Remonstrants of the present day, and also those who claim arminianism as biblicism today who are most ignorant of classic or historic arminianism, duly exalt man, his ability and will, either knowingly or unknowingly,



I agree. Many who say they are Arminian are really semi-Pelagian or full blown Pelagian. Most don't really know what Arminius taught.

Quote:
whereas those who are not ignorant of his systematic theology and consequently deny and refute it, are those who exalt God as God over all His works.



Yes, of course... :roll: there is no such thing as an Arminian who exalts God as God over all His works. Arminians do exalt God as God over all [b]His[/b] works. But they don't impute to God the things he doesn't do.

Quote:
Ultimately, the whole of the argument hinges upon man, his free will, and God and His will being subservient to the former regarding that salvation which the Gospel of God, which is to the praise of His Glorious Grace, has wrought.



Do you understand the heart of anyone who believes in "free-will"? It has nothing to do with exalting man like he is some demigod. The reason Arminius-or anyone who holds a similar doctrine- believe in free-will is because they don't want to say that God causes all men at all times to commit sin. Whether He does this actively or passively (by giving them no other choice but to sin) the Arminian sees that as blaming sin on God. The Arminian view of freed will doesn't stem from a high view of man, but a high view of the goodness and love of God. Some might exalt man, but it's wrong... It not that man is so wonderful that he must have a free will it's that God is too good to be the author of all sin. You may disagree with the argument but you should at least respect the heart of the Arminian.

Quote:
Those who have reckoned with such 'doctrines of men & devils' cannot but loathe and repudiate them. May we do so with the utmost humility.



I could easily respond and say "Like we have a choice?" But I won't... The Arminian/Cavinism debate is not going to go away. Since we have to deal with it the least we should do is try our best to understand both sides and be respectable.

Quote:
As for these men who wrote these songs I have posted on this thread, or any others, they are but expressing their intolerance against any attempt by wicked man's nature to obscure God's Glorious Grace.



Again, the Arminian sees it wicked that God could be imputed as the author of sin... calling each other wicked won't get us anywhere. Unless of course you think that Arminians are not Christians or something..

I know, to many it may seem vain to even talk about "men's doctrines." But, really we have to deal with it. This debate has been on this website (along with all Christian groups) almost has much as I've heard people condemn quoting other theologians/teachers. We need to deal honestly with the issues and attempt to understand and respect each other.

For anyone who actually wants to know what Arminian theology has taught throughout the years I recommend reading " Arminian Theology: Myths And Realities by Roger E. Olson" It's not a big argument trying to slam Calvinists but it's a fairly objective look at what has been taught by Arminian teachers throughout the years.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2008/5/28 10:13Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy