SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 1 Peter 3:18-20 - thoughts?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )
PosterThread
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 1 Peter 3:18-20 - thoughts?

Dear Saints, I am mentoring a young man who has just recently been brought to utter devastation only to be birthed gloriously new again in the Holy Spirit. It is both a fearsome responsibility and a tremendous privilege to be entrusted by God with the mentoring of a true babe in Christ. I am getting a glimpse into how Paul the Apostle could liken the discipling of babes as child-rearing in the spiritual.

Well, the other day this dear man asked me what a good book might be for him and his wife to read together. Immediately the epistle of First Peter came to mind, and I suggested it. This is a book I've meditated on extensively, but, wouldn't you know it, he came to me the next day, absolutely beaming...and with a question.

He wanted to know about what chapter 3, verses 18-20 meant. Now, I have found these particular verses to be quite open to different interpretations, quite mysterious, quite difficult. It figures he would home in on it and ask me! Isn't that just like a child? "Daddy, why is the sky blue?"

"Uhhh...well..."

Well, I know there are basically two camps, two different interpretations pertaining to these verses. The first is championed by many early church fathers, believing that Christ [i]descended into hell[/i] and proclaimed victory to the "spirits" in prison (chained angelic beings, demons, as referenced in Jude and II Peter). We see this mentioned in the Apostle's Creed: "...and He descended into hell..."

The other camp believes Christ's Spirit preached through Noah and Enoch during the old antediluvian age, while the ark was being built, with much long-suffering and forbearance to the millions of souls who eventually perished in the flood and who are now in the prison of "hell". This view is held by such reformers and theologians of illustrious standing as John Owen, Matthew Henry, Scofield, etc.

Interesting discussion. I tend to hold to the latter view, but I am very much inconclusive either way. I realize this discussion has probably surfaced somewhere in the forums in the past; so do forgive me for not digging through the archives.

I'll fairly present my friend with both views and then leave it all in the hands of God (absolutely the wisest option, I believe), though I'd be interested to hear my SermonIndex family's thoughts on these verses as well.

Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/5/9 14:35Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re: 1 Peter 3:18-20 - thoughts?

Quote:
Well, I know there are basically two camps, two different interpretations pertaining to these verses. The first is championed by many early church fathers, believing that Christ descended into hell and proclaimed victory to the "spirits" in prison (chained angelic beings, demons, as referenced in Jude and II Peter). We see this mentioned in the Apostle's Creed: "...and He descended into hell..."

The other camp believes Christ's Spirit preached through Noah and Enoch during the old antediluvian age, while the ark was being built, with much long-suffering and forbearance to the millions of souls who eventually perished in the flood and who are now in the prison of "hell". This view is held by such reformers and theologians of illustrious standing as John Owen, Matthew Henry, Scofield, etc.

in looking at these 2 explanations, my first question is why does it have to be one or the other? could it not be both??

the first explanation agrees with jude and peter and also ephesians 4 that talks of Him [i]decending to the lower parts of the earth[/i] and that He [i]led captivity captive and gave gifts to men[/i]. if i'm not mistaken, i believe that many scholars believe that this is talking about when He brought those righteous men from Abraham's bosom to heaven.

that being said, did not His Spirit preach through Noah and Enoch to the unbelievers? does He not speak and plead and preach through us His servants to the lost?

i guess i don't see why it has to be one or the other in this instance.. but that is just my opinion on these verses.
Quote:
I'll fairly present my friend with both views and then leave it all in the hands of God (absolutely the wisest option, I believe)

and there is the wisdon of God brother paul. may God bless you for your trust in Him to impart and reveal Himself to your friend.;-)

 2008/5/9 16:17Profile









 Re: 1 Peter 3:18-20 - thoughts?

Quote:

PaulWest wrote:
Dear Saints, I am mentoring a young man who has just recently been brought to utter devastation only to be birthed gloriously new again in the Holy Spirit. It is both a fearsome responsibility and a tremendous privilege to be entrusted by God with the mentoring of a true babe in Christ. I am getting a glimpse into how Paul the Apostle could liken the discipling of babes as child-rearing in the spiritual.

Well, the other day this dear man asked me what a good book might be for him and his wife to read together. Immediately the epistle of First Peter came to mind, and I suggested it. This is a book I've meditated on extensively, but, wouldn't you know it, he came to me the next day, absolutely beaming...and with a question.

He wanted to know about what chapter 3, verses 18-20 meant. Now, I have found these particular verses to be quite open to different interpretations, quite mysterious, quite difficult. It figures he would home in on it and ask me! Isn't that just like a child? "Daddy, why is the sky blue?"

"Uhhh...well..."

Well, I know there are basically two camps, two different interpretations pertaining to these verses. The first is championed by many early church fathers, believing that Christ [i]descended into hell[/i] and proclaimed victory to the "spirits" in prison (chained angelic beings, demons, as referenced in Jude and II Peter). We see this mentioned in the Apostle's Creed: "...and He descended into hell..."

The other camp believes Christ's Spirit preached through Noah and Enoch during the old antediluvian age, while the ark was being built, with much long-suffering and forbearance to the millions of souls who eventually perished in the flood and who are now in the prison of "hell". This view is held by such reformers and theologians of illustrious standing as John Owen, Matthew Henry, Scofield, etc.

Interesting discussion. I tend to hold to the latter view, but I am very much inconclusive either way. I realize this discussion has probably surfaced somewhere in the forums in the past; so do forgive me for not digging through the archives.

I'll fairly present my friend with both views and then leave it all in the hands of God (absolutely the wisest option, I believe), though I'd be interested to hear my SermonIndex family's thoughts on these verses as well.

Paul








John 1:1-3
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
KJV
John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
KJV

I lean toward the answer yes he did on both counts.

 2008/5/9 16:58
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: gaining good Bible study habits

Quote:
I'll fairly present my friend with both views and then leave it all in the hands of God (absolutely the wisest option, I believe), though I'd be interested to hear my SermonIndex family's thoughts on these verses as well.



Paul, Your friend's question may be an ideal opportunity to teach the importance of developing good Bible study habits. There is helpful material available – such as “How to Study the Bible” by Kay Arthur, or “How to Read the Bible for all its Worth” by Gordon Fee (That one’s a bit more indepth) - and many more - as you know.

I believe that your friend needs to know that it is important to learn how to look at the bigger picture of the book first, to see the more obvious, general message, authorial aim, audience of the book, etc.

How about using this analogy: Bible study is like doing a puzzle. You can’t fit some of the smaller pieces in until you have completed most of the puzzle. Then it becomes obvious how it fits in. If you still can’t make sense of your piece, wait. It may make sense eventually as you pursue in your studies, and you see how it fits into the bigger message of the Bible.

Zeroing in on the most obscure and hazy verse is not the place to start – even for the seasoned student. You don't want to encourage that habit. Nor do you want to encourage the habit of running to the "experts" all the time for instant answers everytime you have a question. This habit short-curcuits the learning process and also the role of the Spirit.



Diane


_________________
Diane

 2008/5/10 7:21Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Zeroing in on the most obscure and hazy verse is not the place to start – even for the seasoned student. You don't want to encourage that habit. Nor do you want to encourage the habit of running to the "experts" all the time for instant answers everytime you have a question. This habit short-curcuits the learning process and also the role of the Spirit.



Amen, sister. Very good observations. Over and over and over again I stress the importance of quiet time and hearing from the Holy Spirit for the crafting of one's theology. Hence, I am not presenting my own personal interpretation as [i]de facto[/i]. For the record, I'm not really a big fan of the inductive study method, and I suppose it's probably due to my own laziness. That book by Kay Arthur makes my head hurt. My prefered method is reading a particular book over and over again with a scratch pad, an exhaustive concordance and a Greek-English interlinear at hand. The man I am mentoring is already moderately familiar with scripture (he has been attending an Episcopalian church for some years now) and has an overall working knowledge of the New Testament. His question for this passage of scripture was therefore quite legit and I didn't really see it as him zeroing in on the haze. I would actually accredit success to his study of God's Word by merit alone of the quality of the question he posed. I feel it shows both the attentiveness of his scripture reading, and the indisputable difficulty of apprehending these particular verses.

To quickly recap, I am not saying there is a discrepancy between what Jesus did (i.e actually descending into hell [i]and[/i] preaching by His Spirit to the inhabitants of the antediluvian earth); the focus was more on what these particlar passages in 1 Peter 3 were referring to. Two camps seem to be divided on it.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/5/10 8:00Profile









 Re:

I'm sorry sister. I guess I really did not realize what the question was. I breifly read the article, and it appeared to me that the article was putting God the Father and Jesus in two different places and two diiferent errors. I'm sure bother Paul was asking a different question, that I did not answer, by your comment. I just simply answered what came to me heart. I may need to go to seminary and then come back and ask Jesus to forgive me of my earlier wasted life. No doubt, I could have made more of my biblical education if I had of had a desire to study his word as I do now and been able to answered in the different fashion. I possibly might may need to consider joining another forum that doesn't have so many real educated Christains on it. Maybe a site with just people on my spiritual level, like Krispy and some other ole country boys and girls, so I can be of some value in my Christian walk. Brother Paul and Diane, forgive me for answering the wrong way. I wasn't trying to be a pinhead!
God Bless

 2008/5/10 8:04
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Brother Paul and Diane, forgive me for answering the wrong way. I wasn't trying to be a pinhead!


:-P No worries, Moe. I like scratching my head.
Quote:
I possibly might may need to consider joining another forum that doesn't have so many real educated Christains on it. Maybe a site with just people on my spiritual level, like Krispy and some other ole country boys


You insult me by saying this, dear brother. I am also the country boy you are mentioning (the "cowboy poet" as Krispy remarked the other day), and I'm really nothing special. I know I can come off sounding grandiloquent and all, but I'm really nothing more than a bonehead (brother, if you only knew me) who loves the Bible and writing classical music and ministering to the broken hearted with food which I myself have received from God during my own times of hunger.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/5/10 8:14Profile









 Re:

Quote:

PaulWest wrote:
Quote:
Brother Paul and Diane, forgive me for answering the wrong way. I wasn't trying to be a pinhead!


:-P No worries, Moe. I like scratching my head.
Quote:
I possibly might may need to consider joining another forum that doesn't have so many real educated Christains on it. Maybe a site with just people on my spiritual level, like Krispy and some other ole country boys


You insult me by saying this, dear brother. I am also the country boy you are mentioning (the "cowboy poet" as Krispy remarked the other day), and I'm really nothing special. I know I can come off sounding grandiloquent and all, but I'm really nothing more than a bonehead (brother, if you only knew me) who loves the Bible and writing classical music and ministering to the broken hearted with food which I myself have received from God during my own times of hunger.




I don’t know if anyone could really answer the question in detail, at least I can’t. To answer this question one would have to know first exactly where the “bowels of the earth” were located and then know if the bowels of the earth is same place the Bible calls hell. We do know He has got the keys and Jesus gave them to the church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.



I don’t have any problem with biblical or any other kind of education. I believe when we are openly honest with each other we just project who we are, this gives us an opportunity to know each other much better. You, just as I, project only, who we are. Just because we are different doesn’t mean anything. God uses all HIS children in a different fashion for HIS purpose.

edit:
More thoughts Brother Paul.
Since we know this we know we must be in HIS church. How do we do that? We know the Pharisees had a church but we know it was not the right one. Jesus told them you search the world over for one single convert and when you find him, he turn him into twice as much of a son of hell as you are. So how do we know we are in the right church?
Follow Jesus just like the 12.

edit:
More thoughts.
Everyone should be very careful about following another disciple, if the 12 had of pick another disciple, some may have followed Judas. Judas went with the rest of the 12, as they went 2 by 2. One of the 12 must to gone with Judas but they were ultimately following Jesus. The other 12 did not know Judas was what he was, but the Holy Spirit had not yet been given until the Day of Pentecost. Just because Judas accompanied them or they accompanied Judas did not disqualify them as a disciple to receive the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost in the upper room.
See Brother Paul I have done it again. This has nothing to do with your question. Sorry

 2008/5/10 9:21
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

moe_mac wrote:
Maybe a site with just people on my spiritual level



Not speaking as someone that reached any 2high" level yet, personally i think up is the wrong way in christian life, it is downward, in lowering ourselfs. So we become smaller and he greater. But what i wanted to say was, if we follow this thought you had, which we all had sometimes maybe in different situations, then we wont grow.

I remember in my younger days, I was very good in a team sport, my whole team was very good, we even became swedish national champions. So we were really great, and the one thing i am convinced made us become so great was that year after year we trained and played games against superior opposition, we where young and we trained against much older and larger people. And for many years we where last but by always be around older l,larger , better players we bacame better ourselves.

Not that there are any opposition to each others here, but i believe it is the same principle, if we dont have fellowship with more mature, more spiritual believers, older in the faith who has walked before us, how can i become so myself?

I believe this is a very HUGE blessing to be able to meet so many more mature and wiser brethren and sisters, to have fellowship and learn.

Zac Poonen says sometimes, its normal to learn from my own mistakes, but a wise man learn from others.

So not just in the area of mistakes, but in others also, we can be wise and learn.

My self right now, and from day one in my Christian life i had almost zero to none contact with believers in my own age, the small fellowship i attend are a small group of 10 believers, and the youngest has been saved 50 years.

I starting to see why God has allowed this way for me, to be around people so far ahead of me, it is a privilege brother. Dont flee it, seek it.

Christian


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/5/10 9:40Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
I possibly might may need to consider joining another forum that doesn't have so many real educated Christains on it


Moe_mac, I wasn’t even thinking about your excellent response when I made my comment. (my oversight!) And I am not among the literary bright lights, having struggled with both reading and writing all my life. I am merely a learner and I toss out a few pitiful morsels as I go. I admit, study makes my brain hurt. I’d rather just “rely on the Sprit”….. but wait……….

I have been in more Bible studies than I care to think - where the chief form of “study’ was to “rely on the Spirit”. That meant going with whatever pops into our head. We would take a verse and go in a circle and all share our “interpretation” of that verse – what it means to ME (ie, how it fits into my existing life view). Then we’d go to the next verse.. and so forth. I call that pooled ignorance – evangelical existentialism. I guess I am reacting to some of the trends I see - like allowing Spirit-reliance to morph into passivity of the mind.

The evangelicals have been highly criticized for being non-thinkers, and maybe justly so. We assume that asking Jesus into your heart will do the trick, and the experts will lead us in the right direction. Or we assume that we know enough to get by, that we are mostly right, and mostly on track. But we don’t know what we don’t know. And thus we are prone to jump on the latest bandwagon - be it on the left side of the road, or the right.

That is why I passionately believe that a good solid Biblical mindset is worth aiming for. And quality aids that help us get there are a gift from God via the Christian community.


Moe_mac, When I post stuff that sounds like gobblygook to you, I’d appreciate if you ask for clarification. That would help me – and God knows who else. After all, learning how to communicate with clarity is of utmost importance. If listeners don’t know what we are talking about, we may as well speak Greek.

You have an important role here - by being who you are.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2008/5/10 9:42Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy