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 Re: Unbelievable

As i mentioned earlier of my posting of what brother Strom had said; I went back to that site thats in Florida to see if there might be a response and couldn't believe it. Yes there was a response but what was said was just as shocking.

Quote:
by sniperelectech 1 hours ago



Quote:
Julian..was Moses a false prophet because the Pharohs priest copied him? NOTHING is created by satan only copied!! Jesus said..I told you, and ye belived not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

 2008/4/24 9:44









 Re: Florida Revival

Krispy,

Quote:
First, the last days are characterized by APOSTASY, NOT REVIVAL. Thus it is not surprising that we are confronted today with a vast amount of heresy and spiritual compromise. If ever there were a time when God's people need to be knowledgeable and cautious it is today. "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. ... For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Tim. 3:13; 4:3-4).

Second, God warns His people to test EVERYTHING BY THE SCRIPTURES. "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (1 Thess. 5:21). "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so" (Acts 17:11). "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

Friend, you’ve offered nothing scriptural to support your assertion that this is a true move of God. Nothing. However, we have offered plenty of warnings from scripture to be cautious about these kinds of “movements” such as we’re seeing in Florida.

Third, spiritual error is clothed in the APPEARANCE OF TRUTH AND RIGHTEOUSNESS. It is subtle and can deceive us if we are not well educated biblically and exceedingly careful. "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" (Matt. 7:15). "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ" (2 Cor. 11:2). "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works" (2 Cor. 11:13-15).



Awesome breakdown of truth!

 2008/4/24 9:48









 Re:

Uhhh... David... Tozer was never involved in revivals like this. He merely commented on them. As far as I know no one ever called Tozer or the wonderful ministry he had "of the devil". It would help if you knew what you were talking about.

So, you've told us what Tozer said about these revivals. Personally, I'm still waiting on you to provide us with some scriptural evidence that this revival in Florida is legit. Tozer's words and opinions are not scripture... they are Tozer's words and opinions. Newsflash: It is possible that Tozer could have been wrong from time to time during his life.

Does the Holy Spirit need our permission. Nope. However, the Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict scripture, which is God's Word... which He esteems even higher than His own name... and He will NEVER contradict God's character... because He is God.

As far as jealousy is concerned... I dont even know where you're coming from on that one, other than you cant support your own assertions, so you accuse the brethren. Seems to me someone else is notorious for doing that also.

Krispy

 2008/4/24 9:49
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Dear David, we see things different my beloved brother, can we at least not call it "Holy" laughter?

this is never so in the scriptures, God is holy, heaven is holy, his son is holy, the angels are holy, the spirit is holy. But never is it said laughter is.

I think we should not be to fast to call things Holy that God does not say in scripture is holy.

Brother Christian


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/4/24 9:57Profile
broclint
Member



Joined: 2006/8/1
Posts: 370
West Monroe, LA

 Re:

Quote:
So if the message is ALL shaking,laughing ,falling,trances are false and of the devil,.....if this is the message you need to wake up.



And from another thread:
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Most people are so sure of their preconceived fallacy they think they defend the faith and God himself when in actuality they oppose the Holy Spirit



Amen to that quote.... But what precisely does the Holy Spirit do? According the Lord Jesus Christ:
John 14:26 (KJV) 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance,[b]whatsoever I have said unto you. [/b]

John 16:8 - 11 (KJV) 8And when he is come, he will reprove the world [b]of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [/b] 9Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Those of us who, like Art Katz have chronicled the fall of classical Pentecostalism into the neo-charismatic movement and have seen our share of "miracles" and "gifts" and the names that are glorified and the naive little wannabes who are ever seeking for the fame and prestige of these "charisma stars" who shine for just a little while and fade into oblivion, most of the time leaving behind them a legacy of disillusionment, scams, sham and hypocrisy, are not quite as gullible as to call every "ha, ha, hee, hee" holy...quite the contrary. The trail of sin and unrighteousness and confusion and ripping apart of churches that has been caused by so many of these so called “revivals”, not to mention the confusion that has been spread by so many of those that have sought to imitate them, will never be calculated this side of eternity.

The vast difference in those whose names are chronicled in these quotations in order to justify what cannot be justified by bringing their names alongside of the current phenomenon that Art Katz was giving great caution against, is that the joy of the Lord and the rare occasions of those spiritual experiences in their lives were the by-products of seeking God, not seeking experiences. And to take those names and the rarity of what they experienced and the holy fruit of their lives and put it alongside the barking, laughing, rolling in the floor, slithering like snakes, falling down, soulish, "manifestations" that are attributed to the Holy Spirit is disgusting to say the least.

Where is the humility, the Christ likeness, the holiness, the righteousness, the changing of the whole moral climate of those affected by these “revivals”? In fact, the evidence is so often so very clear here on SI that:
(Galatians 5:22 - 24 (KJV) 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. ) is severely missing in post after post and thread after thread in the very tenor of belligerence of the defense of the most blatant twisting and perversions of the Gospel in order to uphold the “names” of some favorite charismatic “star” rather than to lift up the crucified Christ and the very essence of the apostolic faith, [i]a life crucified to the world and the world crucified to them. [/i]

What is deception? It is being led to believe that what is not true is true. If it were not deceptive, if there were not signs and wonders and “evidences” to deceive, it would not be called deception. But what is the source of deception except the liar and deceiver Satan? What is the purpose of deception? It is to get the focus off of Christ and on to [u]something or someone else. [/u] And what is the fruit of deception, and if the fruit, also a part of the root? It is sin. There is a deficiency of the humility that is in Christ, or a seeking of justification of something somewhere forbidden or unlike the Lord Jesus Christ.

This town and in fact this part of this state has been a magnet for deceivers through the years. Many of them have stopped in little ole Monroe and raised their thousands of dollars on their way to the next stop in their little claim to earthly fame for the short while. Where are the fruits of their labor? What revival of holy living did they bring? NONE, just a big crowd that turned out from every church in town, not at all interested in hearing the way of the cross, but merely something that titillated the flesh, got them all excited for a few nights, getting “healed” or “slain in the ‘spirit’”, getting their emotions stirred, and after the little splash in the local paper, Kulman, Roberts, Osbourne, Lowery, McKaig, and a host more of the big names that are no names today passed through and left a trail of mess for the faithful local pastors to have to deal with… false expectations, despite for the way of the cross, and a bunch of wannabes that claimed to have received the “gift”.

From this very town, one name has been bandied around on this site... sad, extremely sad.

Isaiah 8:19 - 20 (KJV) 19And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Isaiah 57:15 (NKJV) 15 For thus says the High and Lofty One Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, With him who has a contrite and humble spirit, To revive the spirit of the humble, And to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Where is the humility in all these bogus claims???
Where is the humility for that matter in defending them???

Where is the likeness of those men whose names are referred to to justify such excesses?

Where is the discernment of the times in which we are living?

God help us that we do not continue to have to defend the once and for all settled faith and all the excellent preaching that speaks of real revival against these "wandering stars... clouds without water" against whom the Word of God has so clearly warned us. The sins get exposed right and left and yet another "star" arises, and rush, rush, like a shark to blood "to see", to experience when the experience of God that the real men of God who have been slandered by association here found their experiences in the private closets of prayer and rose from those prayers to exalt Jesus Christ alone and not their "experiences".

Clint


_________________
Clint Thornton

 2008/4/24 9:57Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Krispy,
by the same token Andrew strom is not God?
You always claim superiority and your word is so final.
revival ALWAYS has opposition.It is always opposed. Men will never stop being men and the devil will use whatever,especially believers to stop ANY revival.

I an NOT a Tod Bently fan.
I am also not in favor of calling ministries the devil.
Quote;
Does the Holy Spirit need our permission. Nope. However, the Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict scripture, which is God's Word... which He esteems even higher than His own name... and He will NEVER contradict God's character... because He is God.

You mean your perception of what you THINK is God and what isn't?


David

 2008/4/24 10:00Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by the same token Andrew strom is not God?



When have I ever said anything about Andrew Strom? Never... so let's stay focussed.

Quote:
You always claim superiority and your word is so final.



I'm certainly not superior to anyone. I'm a trainwreck standing on grace. My word is not final, God's Word is final... which is all I have said in regards to this so-called "revival"... what God's Word says.

You, my brother, have not referred to God's Word one time in this discussion.

Do you wonder why my words sound so "final"? Because I [b]fervently[/b] believe in what I'm saying when I know that I know that my belief is based on God's Word.

Most Christians today dont even know what they claim to believe... but [b]this[/b] Christian does.

Quote:
revival ALWAYS has opposition.It is always opposed. Men will never stop being men and the devil will use whatever,especially believers to stop ANY revival.



Opposition is not how we determine if a movement is of God. I also oppose child molestation... does that make it of God too? Communism has always been met with much opposition... shall we say that Communism was a move of God too?

Thats very poor logic you're using.

No, scripture clearly tells us how we determine if something is of God or not... by testing it against scripture. Many of us here have done that. You reject our conclusions. I'm not going to lose any sleep over that. The weight is on your shoulders, not mine. You've been warned, and thats all I can do other than pray that the Holy Spirit would open your eyes.

Quote:
I an NOT a Tod Bently fan.



Good for you... we have something in common.

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I am also not in favor of calling ministries the devil.



And if you're implying that I have done this then you deceive yourself, for you will not find those words in anything I have written on this thread.

Yes, I believe it's not of God. And while in most minds that may imply that it's of the devil, I have not gone so far as to say that.

Quote:
You mean your perception of what you THINK is God and what isn't?



No, David... if you can find any other way to interpret the scriptures I have used on this thread I would be happy to hear it.

Your lack of reference to scripture during this whole discussion says more than I could ever say.

And by the way, I love you. Tho my words are passionate, it is only because I [b]hate[/b] deception and what it does to people. But I'm not mad. You can totally reject everything I say, and I'll still sleep like a log tonight. All I can do is warn and pray. The responsibility of all this is on you now.

Krispy

 2008/4/24 10:38
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37958
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
Did Christians come out against the manifestations of praying hyde,Finney,and Tozer.

Yes they called it the devil.


What manifestations with Tozer? or the others. Are you sure you know your history?



_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2008/4/24 10:52Profile
RussellLive
Member



Joined: 2008/4/24
Posts: 7
Portugal

 Re:

There is however a danger of dismissing it out of hand. The Bereans did not accept Paul's teaching until they saw it in scripture. How much of us today! Let us search the scriptures. :-)


_________________
Russell Durose

 2008/4/24 11:05Profile









 Re:

Quote:
There is however a danger of dismissing it out of hand. The Bereans did not accept Paul's teaching until they saw it in scripture. How much of us today! Let us search the scriptures.



This is a very good point, and I say Amen!

Krispy

 2008/4/24 11:13





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