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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Human Understanding- Modern or otherwise....

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Lor_E
Member



Joined: 2006/12/23
Posts: 248
Montana USA

 Human Understanding- Modern or otherwise....

Due to the subject matter of understanding, perception, "world view" being touched upon in another thread I would like to bring it to discussion in hopefully a more thorough venue:

"The entrance of Thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple."
Psalm 119:130

Here we stand, humans formed from the dust of the earth, often foolish, often deceived as we were from the beginning, full of pride and every evil thing imaginable, (as well as some unimaginable); those who belong to Christ know that without HIM our own understanding is stupid and foolish.

It concerns me that we so often endeavor to be "right", seeking out some human form to prove or disprove. The wise man, or woman for that matter, is those that seek to be approved by God. Even those that may have "Biblical knowledge" need to remember: "Knowledge puffeth up, but love edifies."


"Let my cry come before Thee, O Lord, give me understanding according to Thy Word."
Psalm 119:169

"For the Lord giveth wisdom; out of His mouth cometh knowledge and understanding." Proverbs 2:6

"Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee." Pv.2:11

You, whoever you are, that believe that "modern understanding" should somehow be glorified or magnified above spiritual understanding, have only shown yourself to be foolish. Modern, or post modern, current thought, or scientific approach, name it what you will: It is still all foolishness in light of the eternities! It still falls to the ground lifeless and powerless, it's only way of influence being deception; even as it was from the very beginning.

"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding." Pv. 3:5

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." Pv. 9:10

"Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes and see not, and have ears and hear not: 'Fear ye not Me?' Saith the Lord: 'will ye not tremble at My Presence...." Jeremiah 5:21, and part of 22

One day we shall stand before the Holy Lord of glory, every thought, every word, every work will be tried by the fire of His holiness and His absolute wisdom! How foolish to think that we can keep some human form of understanding and muddle it together with some form of Christianity! We would do nothing more than create the works of our own hands, which will burn together with all the rest of this world.

I am thankful that I see those whose hearts would desire to learn FROM GOD! That regardless of our own disagreements would seek to know the voice of the LORD. That restrain when their natural inclinations is to "lay into"; or even speak up when their natural inclination is to be quiet.

My prayer for us ALL, who desire to know the voice of the Lord, to have His understanding; would be that we would all grow up into the head, which is Christ. That we may all recognize that our own understanding faileth, but Christ's does not. That one day the imminent, perfect, beautiful, glory of Christ would bind our hearts together in such a way that we would speak the voice, have the same mind (that mind which is of Christ Jesus), and press towards that same goal.

"Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures." Luke 24:45

"Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the dusputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" 1 Cor.1:19

"That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him:

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened;
that you may know what is the hope of His calling,
and what the riches of His glory of His inheritance in the saints,
and what is the exceeding greatness of His power
to usward who believe,
according to the working of His mighty power...."
Ephesians 1:18,19

I know there is much more that can be said on this issue, I have only slightly touched on it. I am not trying to prove anything, except maybe that God can take the foolish things of this world, such as myself, and teach even the simple His word. (Sorry for the lengthiness..)

Open to your thoughts,
a sister in Christ


_________________
Lori Salyer

 2008/4/15 14:43Profile
HopeinChrist
Member



Joined: 2005/8/8
Posts: 258


 Re: Human Understanding- Modern or otherwise....

Quote:
Due to the subject matter of understanding, perception, "world view" being touched upon in another thread I would like to bring it to discussion in hopefully a more thorough venue:



I'm not sure what thread you're referring to so I may be taking this in the totally wrong direction but what you wrote seemed to tie into a train of thought I have been meditating on lately.

Thinking of these two verses in unison:
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

How often do we fail to see the bigger picture. We get so focused on the other person, the offending party or the point we feel so strongly we have to defend that we lose sight of the true battle. We are all too human and how sad we will be when we remember these incidents with clear vision and realize that all too often we were engaging in the wrong battle.
HopeInChrist

 2008/4/15 21:35Profile
Lor_E
Member



Joined: 2006/12/23
Posts: 248
Montana USA

 Re:

Quote:
How often do we fail to see the bigger picture. We get so focused on the other person, the offending party or the point we feel so strongly we have to defend that we lose sight of the true battle. We are all too human and how sad we will be when we remember these incidents with clear vision and realize that all too often we were engaging in the wrong battle.



AMEN!!

No doubt we are all too human, and I have been terribly guilty of loosing sight of the bigger picture to prove some point myself. Not that I'm perfect at it now at all; but most of the time the flesh I'm guilty of wrestling with is my own and leaning how to recognize my own flesh rising up has been helpful.

But none of those things are easy. It is not easy to look at another human being, regardless of weather they were "right" or "wrong" and have to back down, apologize, be quiet!

As an old hymn says: "Oh how precious are the lessons that I learn at Jesus' side."

I'm sure that most of my lessons have been due to my own hard-headedness; and being humbled by the Lord and other people have sometimes been difficult lessons.

Yet the most difficult are those that happen when my own words and actions have been left to bring a fruition; and I have seen with my eyes and felt with a broken heart the devastating results of those things.

I would rather have my heart broken often, by the Lord, on this earth, then have to wait to see it until the day of Judgement!

Thank you, so much for your response. Blessings to you in Christ.

Lori


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Lori Salyer

 2008/4/16 7:32Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Well we live in an information age, so it's not surprising we can deluge each other with the stuff of this age. ;-) Myself being an insatiable omnivorous reader, talking about what I know can hinder and even hurt honest fellowship.

So I appreciate the reminder in this thread. This morning I read Paul's admonition in 1 Corinthians 8 which sounded something like this to me: "Okay, we've established that we all have a bunch of knowledge. Good for us; we are a very educated and astute people, even regarding the bible. Now somehow in all this learning, we must be careful to remember that knowledge makes us arrogant, but love edifies. So, If anyone supposes that he knows anything, if he really is in 'the know'... he'll understand that he doesn't know anything as he ought to know. This is not to conclude that all study of the Bible leads to agnostic despair but simply to put our simple biblical knowledge into the infinitely wise perspective of the author; if even a bible simpleton loves God, this simpleton is known by God.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2008/4/16 12:40Profile
Lor_E
Member



Joined: 2006/12/23
Posts: 248
Montana USA

 Re:

Quote:
So I appreciate the reminder in this thread. This morning I read Paul's admonition in 1 Corinthians 8 which sounded something like this to me: "Okay, we've established that we all have a bunch of knowledge. Good for us; we are a very educated and astute people, even regarding the bible. Now somehow in all this learning, we must be careful to remember that knowledge makes us arrogant, but love edifies. So, If anyone supposes that he knows anything, if he really is in 'the know'... he'll understand that he doesn't know anything as he ought to know. This is not to conclude that all study of the Bible leads to agnostic despair but simply to put our simple biblical knowledge into the infinitely wise perspective of the author; if even a bible simpleton loves God, this simpleton is known by God.



Amen! Great paraphrasing!

How very true that since we live in an information age we value the sharing of that information so highly. I like (some)information as well as anyone, I find it interesting and have studied various topics from history and such; but fellowship.... ah lovely fellowship! the sharing of information does little to compare to the wonder, beauty and grace of true fellowship!

And how awesome a thought that fellowship is available to be had with the Father and the Son- shared together by those who listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit. It is truly a great gift in this world of great tradegy and struggle! and far supercedes the info highway of this present age!

Thank you so much for your reminder!


_________________
Lori Salyer

 2008/4/16 13:30Profile









 Re:

Quote:
And how awesome a thought that fellowship is available to be had with the Father and the Son- shared together by those who listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit. It is truly a great gift in this world of great tradegy and struggle! and far supercedes the info highway of this present age!





1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.




Colossians 2:2-4
2That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

3In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

4And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.

Ephesians 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:


Katy

 2008/4/16 16:26









 Re: Human Understanding- Modern or otherwise....

Quote

"You, whoever you are, that believe that "modern understanding" should somehow be glorified or magnified above spiritual understanding, have only shown yourself to be foolish. Modern, or post modern, current thought, or scientific approach, name it what you will: It is still all foolishness in light of the eternities! It still falls to the ground lifeless and powerless, it's only way of influence being deception; even as it was from the very beginning."

I certainly hope that when you have need of a surgeon, s/he has a "scientific approach" also, please be careful with the f word. (fools, foolishness, etc.) Jesus has something to say about this and it wasn't affirming.

bub

 2008/4/16 16:41









 Re:

Bub,

Everything we have was created by God. However if used unwisely, it is corrupted in the hands of man.

Do you think man or scientific minds actually created what we have or know? Heavens NO!

I praise God for Doctors, and for the knowledge HE has passed on to men.

Luke was a physician wasn't he? Traveled with Paul in fact.

To say that any Doctor's, Nurses, Airplane Pilot is not of God is silly. No one had the knowledge of AeroDynamics in the OT, or even 250 years ago. Are Planes evil...or those who fly in a plane faithless.

God didn't ask us to become like the Amish. That isn't what true Biblical Separation is about. Yet, sorry to say, this is their understanding of separation, because they believe advancement through any technology is evil. Some, if they are allowed to own a car, must paint their bumpers black.....because shiny bumpers appear to be prideful. Now it becomes issues of legalism...adding to the do's and don't of what is sin.


Let's be mindful not to take things to the extreme.

Katy

 2008/4/16 17:03
Lor_E
Member



Joined: 2006/12/23
Posts: 248
Montana USA

 Re:

Quote:
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.



Thank you Katy, I appreciate the addition of these verses.

Dear Mr. Bub,

Firstly I did not intentionally call any one a fool, although I still believe that to elevate the human mind above God's treasures of wisdom and knowledge is foolish.

By the way, I would hope and pray that I get a surgeon that not only know how to sew flesh together, but recognizes that it's healing together is a miracle put there by the Creator! (which by the way is what I have heard several doctors say.. these are not my words.)

But I will not fear man, nor death, nor others strange beliefs; I choose to fear God alone! For when all the scientific knowledge on this earth can no longer help me and I breath my last breath, which I believe God knows beforehand, I will stand before the Judge of all who knows ALL things.


_________________
Lori Salyer

 2008/4/16 18:05Profile









 Re:

Quote:
but recognizes that it's healing together is a miracle put there by the Creator! (which by the way is what I have heard several doctors say.. these are not my words.)



Just to sit and ponder that thought is amazing!

Bubba, when you read the first chapter of Romans...it says they worshipped the creature(mans wisdom) more then the CREATOR (God)...and their wisdom of God became dull and eventually vanished away, their conscience of God was seered...cut off from any knowledge of Him. That's the real danger...

Evolution is a THEORY of human wisdom...and that kind of wisdom is of the devil. Oh he can make things look like this or that, but is it true?

When anti-christ comes with great signs and wonders...those who have lost/or never had the Wisdom of God in Christ Jesus will parish. They will believe the lies.

Let's also remember this concerning technology...Noah built an ark, but who gave him the blue prints and told him exactly how to build it?

Man only discovered how to make fire, but isn't God a consuming fire?

And if you insist on the Big Bang...you must ask yourself and prove beyond all things.....who created that first spec of dust? Was it just there floating around aimlessly? Something had to create it right? You see...THIS is what scientists cannot find the answer to. Something as simple as a spec of dust.

The Lord has the last laugh on that one!:-P !

Katy

 2008/4/16 18:55





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