_________________
Clint Thornton

bro Clint said;

Friend if you are going to make a sweeping generalization of that sort you ought to have a little proof, otherwise you are simply baiting your audience for a fight! And this thread was not started, I am sure, for that purpose, nor have the vast majority of the posters entered it with that purpose. Drink another cup of coffee and pray a while and then come back.


O k I prayed but the coffee and fight thing you'll have to do by yourself.

It is they themselves that state the remnant thats raptured never see heaven. So maybe you are addressing the wrong person.

When you say sweeping generalizations are you equally concerned when Mr smith says;


"I began to search the Scriptures for myself I discovered that there is not a single verse in the Bible that upholds the pre-tribulation theory, but that the uniform teaching of the Word of God is of a post-tribulation Rapture: pre-millennial always. everywhere pre-millennial, but post-tribulation."



(thats not just a sweep but a slam dunk) ?
Mr. Smith leaves no room for any way but his way.

As for the wedding supper;

Rev 19;5And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Notice vs 7 she is no longer the bride but the wife. Also note she is arrayed in fine linen.

It is impossible for the bride to be in heaven and suffering under the Antichrist at the same time.

She is raptured pretrib?


David

Bro Clint said;

"I for one would like to see what makes you believe there is a secret rapture required "


It is only post trib believers that say secret rapture and little girls dream.
I have never said secret and never heard secret until I read it by post trib believers.

This is why it is better to base the discussion on the word.


David

Important discussion.Thank you Greg,for posting this suberb article..Oswald Smith has presented this clear truth well.

Brother Tom's testimony of how rigid and protective folks can be when even beginning to hear of this basic reality of saints suffering through the great tribulation. I also have encountered great resistance when I touch upon this unholy grail..the cup Jesus drank from was a cup of suffering and death. Jesus said we would have to endure until the end,not loving our lives as to preserve them,but following Him,obeying and listening to His words concerning all things..but Jesus promises to provide a way of escape for those who are in right standing with God. God's mercy endures forever and His love never fails,no weapon formed against us shall prosper..and His church..founded upon revelation knowledge of the Son of the Living God as Christ and King..Worthy is His name,the very gates of hell shall not prevail against her.

From the beginning of my committed walk with God ,when I was conscious of His leading and guidance,could readily hear the Voice of My Shepherd,God has been revealing much,in many ways about the reality of His church needing to be prepared for going through the tribulation.I have many remarkable and telling divinely choreographed instances when God has said..with the evidenced light of Shekinah Glory, the weighty powerful unmistakable Presence of the Almighty God accompanied by the words.."This is a shadow of what is to come." Each of these unusual events,upon perusal,taken in the order of their happening over the decades reveals to me a certainty of privision for the needed perseverance,the certainty of provision when we can no longer buy and sell..or barter,the certainty of the protection from harm in the midst of great danger,the reality of God's chosen method of cleansing the earth of all evil doers(as it was in Noah's day the evil was cleansed off the earth by water..leaving it to righteously obediant Noah and kin) and the very nature of the fire He intends to use to accomplish this cleansing..all these events,are to me as lessonsgiven beforehand as preparation,living precepts,heavenly line upon line, precept upon precept for me to prepare my heart and mind to be strengthened,that I might be employed in strengthening that which would remain and those who will remain,the elect of God..God's faith hope and love..as well as His ever enduring mercy...these which have no end..Being full of these in Christ we will endure,overcoming the world,inheriting the earth.

But even if I were to go into great detail describing these events..which many would possibly despise,throwing up hands,pulling their hair..this is no proof to me..I did not see it..and so you would have to wonder even more if I am true or false..though I know that should you simply hide yourself in your closet and seek the truth from the Spirit of Truth,with an open heart,He would surely back me 100%..but I would not burden you at this time with these,rather,I will focus on that which you can see for yourself..that which is written in the Book of Revelation..a series of visions,events portrayed,given supernaturally to John,an eyewitness of the Lord Jesus Christ in the flesh,at His crucifixion and Ressurection,a firstfruit Apostle.

The order in which comes the announcement of the commencement,(the beginning) of the wedding of the Bride to the Lamb,according to John (and if you believe he was speaking of the Holy Spirit and not of his own imagination then you must not believe otherwise than this)this marraige is clearly announced in the midst of all the wrath of God being poured out..after Babylon is made to fall,she who rules over the kings of the whole earth..who was in the midst of persecuting the saints..One of the angels who had already poured out his bowl came to John to ask if he'd like to see the judgement of the great harlot,chapter 17,chapter 16 shows all the bowls have already been poured out..then in 19 the announcement of the beginning of the wedding..where the saints are now clothed for the wedding..then Christ and His saints having been clothed in white and made ready,war with the beast,the kings of the earth and their armies..Christ and His righteous ones using a more powerful weaponry than that which is of flesh and blood. Our weapons supercede theirs.We triumph!Then the beast is captured,with the false prophet and they are summarily thrown into the lake of fire.Chapter 20.Then the angel with the key to the bottomles pit,lays hold of the dragon,Satan and binds him up for a thousand years,then after he is released and allowed to decieve some of the nations who surround the camp of the saints and he is dealt with by fire from heaven and cast into the lake of fire.Then comes the first resurrection of the dead in Christ..surely these are His bride as well.

Then comes the Day of Judgement..when the dead are judged by what has been recorded of their works in the books..this is where their names are blotted out of the Book of Life,if they did not repent of whatever Jesus told them to..the dividing of the sheep and the goats.Now is when we see the Bride appear,when it has been made the new heaven and the new earth,chapter 21..no one enters this city unless their name is still entered in the Lamb's book of Life,their works judged as righteous,proven they are undefiled and not aligned with any apostate thing(belief system,lie,abomination..all given the same status here...none.)Here is when the Bride is revealed..after the judgement seat..at the great white throne..the fighting is over..the endurance over..the union complete and then...the supper..yes!The feast comes after the wedding ceremony itself..the wedding is in itself an event..this is a mystery indeed..each having been made one with the bridegroom,each having a personal union with the bridegroom,Himself and then a corporate celebration..where all who see who they are one with in Christ..the full body of true believers celebrating each one's union with the Lamb and with each other.Let all things be done according to God's will.Let all things be believed in accordance to God's will.

He has given us a map..but every map has a key so you can read the symbols,inorder to understand what the map is showing you. May the Most High God reveal through His Spirit of Truth the true key to all in doubt...we are casting down all vain imaginations and adhereing to the true spirit of prophecy,which is the testimony of Jesus.May we love the Truth! And I have heard Jesus, the Living Word of God say,"But he who endures until the end shall be saved" and "Heaven and earth shall pass away but My words will by no means pass away."

Come Lord Jesus,The grace of Jesus Christ be with you all.

_________________
G.M. (Destiny) Sweet

Bro Clint said;


" Not debating you on the subject but, just would like to see where you are coming from. And as for it being the "most colossal event" that too needs a little referencing from scripture please."


I think a far better question would be "why would anyone not think the wedding of the bride and groom is a colossal event"?

Bro Clint said.

"I agree, and yet I find that statement a little disingenuous seeing how the whole of SI has been treated to weeks of quotes from a book that alienates quite a few suffering saints who are enduring numerous diseases and complications with faith that God is good if He never heals them believing rather:"

In the first place .....lets see.....Didn't we decide to pray and then post?

In the second place ,I never copied a book.
Every quote from the man you deplore (except one) , I took from SI archives and Paul west.

The ONLY reason I make the statement about staying with 'scripture only' is because the post trib believers say they are standing on scripture while the pretrib believers follow ;Man,a lie,a dream of a girl,Tim Lahaye,and on and on.

I ,of course,most definately do read other books.
A lot of them.And am better for it.

But concerning the topic of the second coming I believe scripture is the best. And to reconcile objections to doctrine and theory SCRIPTURALLY should be in every one's best interest.


David

Destiny said;
"Here is when the Bride is revealed..after the judgement seat..at the great white throne..the fighting is over..the endurance over..the union complete and then...the supper."

The problem i see with this is Rev 19;
7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

The scene is heaven not earth.


The other problem is Matt 26;
29But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Jesus was referring to the marriage supper.Note: "my fathers kingdom"

The marriage supper happens in heaven.


David

RE: MATTHEW 24:(15) When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand;) (16) Then let them which be in Judea flee to the mountains; (17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house; (18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. (19) And woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! (20) But pray you that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day; (21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. This "GREAT TRIBULATION" of vs. 21 is not any concern of mine as I can't go through it since I am living in 2008. That generation Jesus spoke to is long gone as well as the temple He spoke of which would be destroyed. Yet: Almost every reference to the word "tribulation" in the New Testament applies to what true Christians go through, rather than what they escape from.

John 16:33 - Jesus Christ said to His followers, "In the world YOU shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

Acts 14:22 - Paul told Christians, "WE through much tribulation must enter the kingdom of God."

Romans 5:3 - True Christians are to "glory in tribulations" because "tribulation works patience" and develops Christian character.

2 Thessalonians 1:4 - Paul wrote of the many "persecutions and tribulations" which "the ekklesiais of God" were enduring in the first century.

Revelation 1:9 - John was our "companion in tribulation."

Revelation 2:9 - To His ekklesia, Jesus said, "I know your works and tribulation…"

Revelation 2:10 - Again to His ekklesia, Jesus said, "YOU shall have tribulation…"

Revelation 7:14 - God's people "came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." They did not escape it, but endured through it, being purified.

Christians have always gone through "tribulation" and will endure tribulations until the end. Yet we need not fear, for Jesus has promised, "Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the world." Matthew 28:20.

If this post-trib thread were a democratic poll, I believe the post-tribers would have it. I’m sure glad God don’t go with majority rules. A post-triber could have certainly a good dialogue with those people who come to the front door with the pamphlets with the tower on them. Trying to put some humor in here, don’t get bent out of shape people. When the gospel is preached to all nations and the fullness of the gentiles is come in, we are out of here, those who know Jesus, when the trump of God sounds, not the seventh trumpet,{different definitions} when ever that is. Maranatha!!!!!

David,Sorry?I didn't say it took place on the earth..never thought so...nope.Focus on the preceeding events..open Revelation,read it.When a marraige has come it means it has begun to happen,everyone arrives on the scene first,being gathered together..then the actual solemn ceremony when all the players are in place.You are not ignoring what preceeds this announcement, are you? The wedding has to be taking place when the dead in Christ are ressurected..after the millenial reign..are you saying they get left out and only this generation that has to face the tribulation is the Bride? Don't forget a day can be as a thousand years to God.

Truly this Holy union/marraige is so incredibly sacred..such a joy to the Father to present these believers to His Beloved Son that He would not give a vision to John to describe it..lest we putrify it with our surmisings,and so it is that we only see it announced as begun to commence and then the Bride revealed.

_________________
G.M. (Destiny) Sweet

Too many see only through glasses which impair their vision of The Revelation of Jesus Christ. If only such man-made spectacles would be removed their vision may improve. Giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light. For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Col.1:12-14. - "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation; neither shall they say, Lo here! Or, lo there! For, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." John 17:20-21