SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Elohiym: Creator

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 Next Page )
PosterThread
jayyou
Member



Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


 Re:

Dear brother RevBenjamin,

Thank you for your replies.

I have read your post and I must say that somehow you always find a way to evade my questions.

I know that you don't know that I know about the different Ark's and what they represent, but that is not what we are discussing here.

Let me refresh your memory.

I was having a discussion with Brother Phillip about the Ark and The Temple in heaven.
When I quoted this text, I want to know why was the Ark of His Testimony shown to John and why did John saw such a great display of power after that.
Brother Phillip said that the temple that John saw in heaven, is us the spiritual temple, but we all know that we are still down here on earth. You then joined the discussion saying that the Temple that John saw, was Jesus Himself. You even quoted this.

quote: ""John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Jayyou, what was Jesus referring to? Himself or a building?""""

I see the Temple that John saw in Heaven as the Template for the Tabernacle that was built by Moses.

Ok. So far we have.


Phillip = We are the Temple.

RevBenjamin = Jesus is the Temple.

Jayyou = The Temple is just the Temple that the earthly tabernacle was a perfect copy.


What I want you to explain to me is the fact that in this verses the Temple of God is mentioned again.

I have asked you three times and yet I have had no answer to these question, so I will try again.

=========

Revelation 14:17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

Revelation 15:5-6 After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. 6 And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues,


Please answer my questions in regard of this.

What temple is this that John saw in these two passages?

Are Angels coming out of Jesus(temple)?

======

I want to know if this temple that Revelation is talking about is refering to.

Us
Jesus
or just a temple.

So, please could you answer these few questions?

In love Jayyou.

 2008/5/11 6:30Profile
jayyou
Member



Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


 Re:

Dear brother Phillip,

Once more thank you for your reply.

Quote:""""Quote: """"The seventh day Sabbath cannot be Holy, for a day is not and cannot be Holy,"""".

"""""I don't deny the Sabbath Day as Holy, I embrace Him. Would you rather worship a day or Jesus Christ?""""""

=====
You got me all confused now, First you said that the Sabbath day cannot and will never be holy, but low and behold in your next message you say that you don't deny but rather you embrace it.

Dear brother you called common what God Sanctified, and He Sanctified the Day.

You asked me.

quote:"""Would you rather worship a day or Jesus Christ?""""

Dear brother I have never come accross a text in the bible that tell us to worship the Day, or to worship a day. If one does that He is worshiping other gods.

The bible, in the other hand tell us that we must remember to keep the day holy, because God sanctified it by not doing certain things in it and also by doing certain things in it. It does not tell us to keep the day holy by praying to it, or by worshiping it but rather by worshiping the Creator, The God of the heavens, The Saviour(these I say refering to Jesus)On that Day.

This is where you are terribly mistaken, I do not worship a day but I worship the creator and saviour on that Day.

=========

Quote: """"" and keeping the day is self works which the whole Law is about. Anything any person does to please God is a work unless it is through Christ Jesus and His works accomplished on the Cross."""""


I think it is so funny how you say this, by me keeping God's commandments is Salvation by my own efforts, even though I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, I have given my life to serve Jesus and to preach Him as our crucified Saviour and our only way of salvation, but you say that by me keeping the Sabbath I trying to save myself by my own works, but you say that the Sabbath is not holy it cannot be holy it will never be holy and you say that do it through Jesus Christ.

You talk about works, works, works. and yet you forget this.

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.


James is very clear dear brother,

FAITH AND WORKS THEY GO ALONG.

Your faith must produce good works otherwise it is dead and it cannot save you and likewise your works must be the result of your faith, otherwise it is dead and it cannot save you.

but you forget one thing.

In revelation we have this.


Revelation 2:1 To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, '
Revelation 2:2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience


Revelation 2:8 And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write.
Revelation 2:9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty



Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,
Revelation 2:13 "I know your works, and where you dwell,



Revelation 2:18 And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write.
Revelation 2:19 I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience.



Revelation 3:1 And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
Revelation 3:1 "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.



Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write,
Revelation 3:8 "I know your works.



Revelation 3:14 " And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
Revelation 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot.


It seems to me that Jesus is very much aware of our works and as I said before faith and works go together, you separate one and the other is dead.

So, don't come to me and say that I keep the Sabbath and it is only works because it is not true, I keep the sabbath because I have faith that Jesus is my saviour and He is the Lord of the Sabbath, so I worship the Creator not the Creation.


Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Again I will say to you dear brother.


DO NOT CALL COMMON WHAT GOD HAS SANCTIFIED FROM THE BEGINNING.


God bless..

Jayyou

 2008/5/11 7:13Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Law breakers

Quote:
Dear brother crsschk ,

Thank you for your post, allow me to ask you a question.

You mentioned these 613 laws, but let me ask you something.

You have not answered my question.

Can I marry my sister or a close relative for Jesus nailed the whole law on the cross?

if you say no, please explain.
if you say yes, please explain.

Looking forward to your reply.

God bless....

jayme




Brother, for the better part I must admit you have been cordial with all this yet there does seem to be some duplicity with;

Quote:
You have not answered my question.



As you do very much the same with those being posited to yourself. At any rate, will answer your question with the following, from Romans;


[i]Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

For there is no respect of persons with God.
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.[/i] Rom 2:1-29

How goes the keeping of the other 612? Quite the burden compared to;

[i]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.[/i] Rom 8:2


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/5/11 10:09Profile
jayyou
Member



Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


 Re:

Dear brother crsschk,

Thank you for your answer and your patience. Please allow me to comment on your last message.

Quote:"""You have not answered my question.


As you do very much the same with those being posited to yourself. At any rate, will answer your question with the following, from Romans;"""""

Dear brother, I try to answer all the questions people post to me, I cannot say for sure if I succeded but If you ask me a question and I did not answer the first time and you think that I should answer it, then ask me a second time and I will garantee you an answer.

Now I ask you a question three times and you still haven't answered.

Since Jesus did away with the law, Can I marry a close relative for we are not under the law anymore or this law was done away.

You posted a text from Romans 2, which states the following.


Quote:"""For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. """"

How does the text in romans answer my question?

====

Quote:""""How goes the keeping of the other 612?""""

Are you saying that I keep the sabbath and disregard the other commandments?

I cannot see where you would get this idea.

Now, what about you, How many of the 613 you say is no longer binding to us?

I hope you are not promoting lawlessness for we all know the reward of those who promote and practice such a thing.

You say that I do not keep the whole law, but this argument does not help you either.

whoever is guilt of one if guilt of the whole law, Remember?

So, according to your statement we are both into trouble.

Now, you will say that Jesus did away with the law and yet all the other nine commandments were mentioned again in the new testament. The sabbath was kept by Jesus as an example to us, but that is not enough. Paul went to the synagogues on the Sabbath and once they went out by a river on the sabbath where prayers customarily were made. Paul was never acused of breaking the sabbath law, not even once, but was persecuted for other things. but his example is not enough for you.

Jesus followers were preparing the spices for annoyinting His body and yet they stopped it, kept the Sabbath and when they were going on the first day to finish the job, Jesus was not there.
but their example is not good enough.

One thing i for sure, Jesus talks about two great commandments and they all refer to the Ten commandments, you accept all of them except the 4th commandment.

=====

You made sure to separate this part of the text for me.

Quote:"""For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you"""

How about you, dear brother, is the name of God being blasphemed through those who deny the whole law?

So, again.

According to your understanding of the law with 613 commandments,

Am I allowed to marry a closer relative? ie. sister?

are we free to break this law?


God bless...



 2008/5/11 15:06Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

"You got me all confused now, First you said that the Sabbath day cannot and will never be holy, but low and behold in your next message you say that you don't deny but rather you embrace it."

The quote was, "embrace Him", not it. The day is "it", He is the whole and fulfillment of "it".

I don't deny the Sabbath Day as Holy, I embrace Him. Would you rather worship a day or Jesus Christ? The works (not) done on the Sabbath Keepers day of rest, is a works in itself and they are doing the works to keep the Seventh Day Holy. The works are not keeping the Sabbath but making themselves pleasing to God and sanctifying themselves.

As a born again Christian with the Seed of Christ birthed in me, I choose to worship Him 24-7 which is the only way a Christian can honor the Father and that Honor is because of the Christ in me that the Father accepts as worship, not my worship but His worship which has become my worship by His works on the Cross.

James said, "faith without works is dead", knowing the the Works are the Works of Christ in him, that the works of Jesus Christ must come forth or your faith is dead.

That is why I show you my Faith, which is Christ, by the works.

Quote:

""Your faith must produce good works otherwise it is dead and it cannot save you and likewise your works must be the result of your faith, otherwise it is dead and it cannot save you.""



But my faith will only produce the works that God will accept by the Faith of Christ that is in me.

Who's Faith?

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Who's Faith will produce the good works? Certainly Not mine.

The Same for the Sabbath, Who's Sabbath is it?
Who gave it to man for man? Who knows what the true Sabbath is? It is Christ Jesus the Lord that knows what the true Sabbath is all about, it is about remembering what Christ Has done on the Cross and Who has given you new birth by the Father's Seed, which is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". Just like Israel for the earthly Sabbath. Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Neh 13:22 And I commanded the Levites that they should cleanse themselves, and [that] they should come [and] keep the gates, to sanctify the sabbath day. Remember me, O my God, [concerning] this also, and spare me according to the greatness of thy mercy.

So why do you keep the Sabbath? Because of a Law or because of the Love we are commanded by Jesus Christ.

Old testament reason for the Sabbath:

Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Neh 13:22 And I commanded the Levites that they should cleanse themselves, and [that] they should come [and] keep the gates, to sanctify the sabbath day. Remember me, O my God, [concerning] this also, and spare me according to the greatness of thy mercy.

New testament reason for the Sabbath Himself.

Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

The darkness of the old Sabbath in works is passed away and the true light of the Sabbath has come, Jesus Christ Himself who is in you. Your Sabbath is Christ not the day of keeping.

You left something out: Works are nothing and certainly not to the forefront of Christ Teaching in Revelations.


Revelation 2:1 To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, '
Revelation 2:2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience

To finish:
Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Revelation 2:8 And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write.
Revelation 2:9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty

To finish: "and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."



Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,
Revelation 2:13 "I know your works, and where you dwell,

To finish: Revelation 2:13-14 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

You left out the finish of what this part of scripture is all about. Doing the works and leaving out Christ and His works in us.

Revelation 2:18 And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write.
Revelation 2:19 I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience.



Revelation 3:1 And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
Revelation 3:1 "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.



Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write,
Revelation 3:8 "I know your works.



Revelation 3:14 " And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
Revelation 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot.

To finish, ignoring or not withstanding or nevertheless, He has something against each
Church and this is His Finish: Who's Works?

Revelation 2:25-29 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and ((keepeth my works unto the end,)) to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Galatians 5:1-8 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

Kick against the goad all you want, but Grace and Truth are in Christ Jesus and no other, be it works or anything else that takes His Place in the Life of the believer is Idolotry and Christ profit you nothing.

In Christ: Phillip





_________________
Phillip

 2008/5/11 18:42Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Dung however you slice it ...

Quote:
Now I ask you a question three times and you still haven't answered.



Actually you asked Phillip back a few pages, I just happened to jump in at some point. And I think it is a rather baiting question, even if it isn't your intention. May be why you are not getting a response that you might be looking for ... We could go back and forth on these "what abouts" if we were to go through the whole 613 commandments so I will just answer this; What do you think? This is the trouble in overlooking so much, but I am getting a bit ahead of myself ...

Quote:
You posted a text from Romans 2, which states the following.


Quote:"""For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. """"

How does the text in romans answer my question?

Posted more than just that subsection, the greater part of it for the context, but bear with me ...

Quote:
Are you saying that I keep the sabbath and disregard the other commandments?



Yes. Will clarify that ...

Quote:
I cannot see where you would get this idea.

Now, what about you, How many of the 613 you say is no longer binding to us?

I hope you are not promoting lawlessness for we all know the reward of those who promote and practice such a thing.

You say that I do not keep the whole law, but this argument does not help you either.

whoever is guilt of one if guilt of the whole law, Remember?

So, according to your statement we are both into trouble.



Ah! Now your closer, "were both in trouble" !
Thank the Lord Jesus Christ! Yes, precisely. That is the whole point and argument throughout not only this posting but others like it and dare I saw was Paul's argument throughout; "Who bewitched you?"

Promoting lawlessness? "[i]God forbid![/i]"

Quote:
You say that I do not keep the whole law, but this argument does not help you either.



It helped Paul ... ;-)

[i]Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, [u]which is of the law[/u], but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:[/i] Php 3:6-9

Quote:
Now, you will say that Jesus did away with the law ...



No brother, I have never stated that, He fulfilled the law and the covenant was changed (See Hebrews).

Quote:
and yet all the other nine commandments were mentioned again in the new testament.



Interesting, but not that last one ... ?

Quote:
The sabbath was kept by Jesus as an example to us, but that is not enough. Paul went to the synagogues on the Sabbath and once they went out by a river on the sabbath where prayers customarily were made. Paul was never acused of breaking the sabbath law, not even once, but was persecuted for other things. but his example is not enough for you.



Yet Jesus was accused of breaking it, remember? There are quite a few things that seem to be overlooked. Chronology. 'As things progressed' it might be put. When were the Epistles written? What about the temple ... and [i]the sacrifices?[/i] That has always been one of the most most puzzling, what happened with the Jews or proselytes after the temple was destroyed? How did they get around [i]those[/i] commandments? Need to purposefully drive this off the trail a bit. Posted a link back a few pages from a site on Judaism and one the important links there was on "The Ten Commandments". They themselves put forth the argument better than anyone of us can that, in a nutshell, this is only part of the greater body (the 613). In fact they go so far as to say that the "ten" were not even 'commandments'. Won't bother to get into all that but there has been a great attempt here and elsewhere to make diligent note [i]who[/i] and to [i]what[/i] body of people these were given to. Israel. Moses. Egypt. Key words and key instructions to them at that time and in that covenant. Would end up having to dredge all the aforementioned links posted here to go back into it all ... I must admit it has been very educational frankly. Techincally speaking, the "Ten Commandments" shouldn't really be posted where they have been (in our day) because we are not under that covenant any longer. But does that do away with the principles that under-girded them, not a chance. They are exemplified in the Lord Jesus, fulfilled and [i]we[/i] are under the greater law having His same self spirit if I could put it that way.

I know Romans is a difficult book to grasp and understand, hardly do I fathom it completely. But this is the great work of Paul's to express what the law is and means to those of us blessed enough to be on this side of the equation. As has been pointed to time and again, the other Epistles, Hebrews ...

Quote:
One thing i for sure, Jesus talks about two great commandments and they all refer to the Ten commandments, you accept all of them except the 4th commandment.



[i]Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang [u]all the law[/u] and [b]the prophets[/b].[/i] Mat 22:35-40

[i]And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. [u]The law and the prophets were until John[/u]: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.[/i] Luk 16:14-16

[i]For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.[/i] Mat 11:13

"Were", "Until" ... Chronology again.

[b]Luk 16:16 - The law and the prophets were until John[/b],.... Till the time that John the Baptist began his ministry; for till then, the law and the prophets, with the Hagiographa, or holy writings, for into these three parts the Jews divided the books of the Old Testament, were the only writings they had; and which contained the whole of the revelation granted to them; and which they wrested, and put false glosses on; and therefore it was no wonder that they derided Christ, and despised his ministry: and whereas spiritual things were promised in these writings, under the notion of temporal ones; which they not understanding, might imagine the doctrine of Christ, concerning the contempt of worldly riches, was contrary to: and since they valued themselves on having the law and the prophets, Christ observes, that

[b]since that time, the kingdom of God is preached[/b]; the Gospel, and the mysteries of relating to the kingdom of the Messiah, his person, office, and grace; and to the kingdom of grace, which lies not in outward, but in inward and spiritual things; and to the kingdom of heaven, or glory hereafter; and which is a superior dispensation to that of the law and the prophets, and sets things in a clearer, plainer, and better light:

John Gill

I am not having a problem with the 4th commandment, that is yours and others ceasinglessness (to coin a phrase) issue. Why the constant harping on just this one item when there are so many, many more? If you want to be under the law, what has been stated?

[i]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.[/i] Gal 4:21-24

"Two covenants". Your issue is with Paul not I. That has been the main attempt throughout here. Not to key in on just the sabbath but an attempt to open up just what the law is, what the commandments are, not just the "ten" and who they were given to. Go through that entire list, indeed you are certainly not keeping them all as I mentioned earlier, neither am I, nor do I wish to. The "law" is now written on our hearts, that was the point of the excerpt from Romans and no, I did not separate it into paragraph form for any other reason than to break it up a bit, make it more readable, I know my own tendency to skim over scriptures that are posted sometimes, especially if they all run together.

There must be a recognition that you and others like you are breaking the commandments even if you keep the "ten" because they are not "all". To dissect and put to the grind those that see no obligation to keep the "fourth" all the while doing the same to the other 613; choosing which have been fulfilled and dancing around the remaining is to do the very self same thing.

Am likely a bit all over the place here and there are far better men that have wrestled with these matters than I will ever be.

[i]And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.[/i] Mar 10:17-21

He kept seemingly all these particular commandments and yet still lacked. Paul did likewise and even more according to his account and still lacked. We all lack ... what does it profit you to keep the law?

[i]For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the [u]law of liberty[/u]. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.[/i] Jas 2:10-13

"Liberty". "Conscience". (Which, by the way, was the emphasis in Romans I would have emphasized; [i] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their [u]conscience[/u] also bearing witness[/i]). "The law of ..." Rom 8:2 For the [u]law of[/u] the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Study these things out, these words or phrases, what are they telling us?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/5/11 19:44Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

jayou,

Matthew 11:25-30 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Galatians 5:1-14 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. I would they were even cut off which trouble you. For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

"all the Law"? "is fulfilled in one word"?
Even the 2nd commandment, and it cannot be done without the 1st. The First cannot be done without the fulfillment Himself in the believer.

Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Are you dead to the Law and alive unto God?

Then why keep the Law? But keep only the Law of Love, which is the fulfilling of the whole Law.

Psa 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Ephesians 3:14-21 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

It is the inner man God is concerned with, the inner Law, the inner Sabbath, not the outward working, because it killed Paul and will kill us also, if by our own doing we keep the Sabbath or any other Law. The only Law that will keep us is the Law of Love exhibited in its epitome, by the Cross of Christ.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Understand this and you will understand why we say Christ in you is the only way the Law can be kept, and why our striving to keep the Law is incomprehensible to God, lest why did He Send His Son to fulfill the Law. That we might be free from the Law and alive unto God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 7:7-25 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Serving with your mind the Law of God is not a works, for we have the Mind of Christ and it is by the renewing of our mind to His Mind that we can serve the Law of God, not by works lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:1-10 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Jayou, don't ask me any more question until you can show me you understand what I am showing you and other also, from the Word of God.

I do love you with a love that is not of this world, but the Love of God in Christ Jesus who is now our lives if we only believe.

2 Timothy 1:9-10 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

This is the Gospel, Col 1:27-28, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory"

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2008/5/12 1:49Profile









 Re:

Re: [i]Dung however you slice it ...[/i]
by crsschk on 2008/5/11 20:44:3

[u]Chrsschk, what is this [b]'dung'[/b] that you refer to being sliced?[/u]

Thanks,
Stephen.


 2008/5/12 11:49
RevBenjamin
Member



Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


 Re:

Quote:
"The law of YHVH is perfect, reviving the soul"



This may be the problem. The LAW does not revive the soul. The Spirit of the life of Christ who set you free from the law of sin and death can only revive the soul. Ye must be Born Again!

Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power, from such ?????

R.G. Benjamin

 2008/5/12 15:57Profile









 Re:

revBenjamin quote: [i]""The law of YHVH is perfect, reviving the soul"

This may be the problem. The LAW does not revive the soul. The Spirit of the life of Christ who set you free from the law of sin and death can only revive the soul. Ye must be Born Again!

Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power, from such ?????[/i]
-----------------------------

[b]RevBenjamin, I personally uphold and support the Scripture and once again stand with the psalmist in Psalm 19:7 [u]"The law of YHVH is perfect, reviving the soul"[/u][/b]

I hope you do too...?
Stephen

 2008/5/12 17:19





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy