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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Elohiym: Creator

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Joined: 2004/11/29
Posts: 275


The Creation Covenant: (Dr. R.C. Sproul)

1. Sanctity of life
2. Sanctity of marriage
3. Sanctity of labor
4. Sanctity of Sabbath

God made this Covenant with Adam, and it includes all of mankind. We can be hostile to it, but we cannot undo it.

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions (of the law: 1 John 3:4) from us...TO SUCH AS KEEP HIS COVENANT, AND TO THOSE THAT REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS TO DO THEM." Psalm 103.

The fourth commandment is NOT OPTIONAL.

He is, only, Lord, to those who obey Him.

 2008/5/9 8:58Profile

Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


Dear brother Phillip,

Thank your for your reply. Please allow me a comment.

I will post here something that you said, and I know already that you will come back to me saying that I took it out of context, but I will do it just the same.


Quote: """"The seventh day Sabbath cannot be Holy, for a day is not and cannot be Holy,"""".

This my brother is not biblical. These are your words and I can assure you that you are wrong in saying this.

Please explaing this to me.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Nehemiah 9:14 You made known to them Your holy Sabbath,

Is Nehemiah talking about a Day or a person?

Isaiah 58:13 If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable,

Do you understand what,




I am sorry that you count as common the things that God sanctified.

For if you say that the sabbath is not holy and a day cannot be holy, then you are denying the very words of God.

Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Right from the Beginning God Sanctified it.

but you call it common, should I give heed to your words or the words of the Almighty God?

God bless you...

 2008/5/9 9:20Profile

Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


Dear brother crsschk ,

Thank you for your post, allow me to ask you a question.

You mentioned these 613 laws, but let me ask you something.

You have not answered my question.

Can I marry my sister or a close relative for Jesus nailed the whole law on the cross?

if you say no, please explain.
if you say yes, please explain.

Looking forward to your reply.

God bless....


 2008/5/9 9:26Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Obstinate

[i]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.[/i] Heb 7:18

[i]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.[/i] Heb 8:6-9

The fourth commandment is NOT OPTIONAL.

He is, only, Lord, to those who obey Him.

[i]For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[/i] Jas 2:10

All 613 of which are optionalized and disobeyed as is fiting whichever whim or fancy suits ...

School yourself;

[url=]"The Ten Commandments"[/url]

[i]Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Hath not my hand made all these things? Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.[/i] Act 7:48-53

Mike Balog

 2008/5/9 9:28Profile

Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


Jeremiah had the revelation that the physical, earthly Ark of the Covenant would no longer be sought after or held in such high esteem. He saw that the reality and the fulfillment of the Ark would come.

Jeremiah3: 16And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart. In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers. We see the eternal fulfillment of the Ark is Jerusalem.

Jerusalem will be called "the Throne of God". The Ark was the place of God's earthly throne in the Tabernacle of Moses and the Temple of Solomon.

In future days Jerusalem will be called "the Throne of God". This will be true in the Millennium rule of Christ but will also be true of the New Jerusalem which will be the Most Holy Place in the Tabernacle of God. The throne of God will be there.

REV 22:1 And he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, And there shall no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, (the New Jerusalem) and His bond-servants shall serve Him; and they shall see His face, and His name {shall be} on their foreheads.

When the Throne of God is manifested no one will miss the Ark of the Covenant which was made with human hands. [u]The final fulfillment [/u], which is a shadow of things to come, will not come until the New Earth, the Heavens, and the New Jerusalem are manifest. When the Tabernacle of God is complete, the New Jerusalem will be the Most Holy Place and the Throne of God.

Revelation 11:19 is the Revelation of Jesus Christ pointing to these future events and the fulfillment of those promises, not only in executing His wrath upon a godless world, but His Mercy to Israel as promised. Revelation 11:19 announce the birth-pangs of Romans 11:26-36.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

R.G. Benjamin

 2008/5/9 10:27Profile

Joined: 2007/10/19
Posts: 136


Dear brother RevBenjamin,

Thank you for your reply.

Quote: """"You want to hold on to the earthly picture, placing it exactly in Heaven as was on earth, looking for answers you will never find.""""

Dear brother, it is right here that we do not agree.

You are looking it backwards, I am not placing the tabernacle in heaven as it was on earth.
That's where we do not agree, For the tabernacle on earth was a shadow of the heavenly one.

According to Hebrew.

Hebrews 8:5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, "See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."

I cannot put it any clearer.

Again, you did not answer some of my question in regard the Temple that

Revelation 14:17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

Revelation 15:5-6 After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. 6 And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues,

Please answer my questions in regard of this.

What temple is this that John saw in these two passages?

Are Angels coming out of Jesus(temple)?


Quote:"""May God open your eyes and ears, to hear and know these wonderful truths."""

Please do brother, there are many truths in the bible that a lifetime is not enough to grasp.

May God bless you in your walk with the Master.


 2008/5/9 16:41Profile

Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


Hebrews 8:5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, "See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."

Jayme, Once upon a time, in the Beginning, God designed three (3) Arks, and they were very different from each other, yet they served a common purpose. Each was built uniquely special.

Ark#1 carried the Notice or Necessity of Salvation.

Ark#2 carried the Plan of Salvation,

Ark#3 carried the Symbols of Salvation.

"Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world."Acts 15:18.

"There are differences of administrations, but the same Lord, and there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all." 1Cor12:5.

ARK #1. Noah's Ark didn't have a rudder or keel or means of propulsion. It was made of gopher wood, Gen6:14, and I'd have called it a floating barn or perhaps barge. In addition to all the animals, it carried the "One Family" of Noah, consisting of 4 males and 4 females. 1Peter 1:20 reminds us of that time when "the Ark was preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water". You could argue from this that animals don't have souls -- or maybe their souls don't need saving?? To those who wonder whether animals go to heaven, and want the answer from Scripture, it's a verse which must be considered.

"By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear; prepared an Ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world.." Heb 11:7. Note that now WE are (building) the house of the Lord, Heb3:6, and that Noah's life bridged that Deluge era, and that he died in the year 2006 at the age of 950.

Our learning experience concerning salvation begins with Noah's Flood, commonly referred to as "The Deluge". Everyone except those in the Ark were drowned in that liquid water, and only One Family was "saved". Now in the New Covenant only the Family of God will be going to heaven, and everyone else is figuratively either drowning in the Sea of Life or hell-bent for the Lake of Fire.

"Whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our LEARNING!" Rom 15:4

ARK #2. The Ark of Moses also traveled on the water, but it carried just the One Baby, the "One Body", of the person who would deliver the Children of Israel from the oppression of the Pharaoh. This "ark" was made of bulrushes, Ex2:3, and also lacked keel or rudder or means of propulsion -- I'd have called it a tub, or perhaps a sea-going baby buggy.

"That he might sanctify and cleanse it (the church) with the washing of water by the word", Eph 5:26. Scripture is not just the "Bread" of God, but is also the "Living Water", John4:14, for those who hunger & thirst. Rev22:17.

"For we being many are one bread and One Body: for we are all partakers of that one bread". 1Cor 10:17.

Moses floating down the river is a precept of how Jesus is the Living Water come down from Heaven. Both babies came as "strangers" to deliver those who love Truth and Righteousness and those who are oppressed. "Jesus...went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. Acts 10:38.

ARK #3. This golden boat was constructed of shittim wood, Ex25:10, and measured 2½ long by 1½ wide by 1½ high (cubits), Ex25:10, and was carried on the shoulders of the designated Levites. I'd have called it a box, or a chest, because it contained the (1) Golden pot of Manna, (2) Aaron's Rod that budded, and (3) Tables of the Covenant. Heb 9:4.

NO WATER!! They aren't even close to a lake! This third Ark is built according to God's specs, in the desert, a long way from any water. And covered with so much gold there's a possibility it wouldn't have floated anyway...??

This 3rd Ark signified the presence of God!

Neither does God dwell in man-made structures--He wants to dwell in the "CHEST" of man -- in the heart of the believer! And He's truly a trinity of His Word (the tablets), and True Bread (the pot of manna), and New Birth (the Rod that budded). This chest isn't the physical kind that carpenters use or people eye-ball, but rather is the figurative or spiritual that is carried around and along by the five-fold ministry of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers. Eph4:11.

WHY WERE THEY CALLED "ARK'S" ?? The Greek word "kibotos" and the Hebrew word "tebah" both translate simply as vessels or boats, so the use of the word "ark" is something of a mystery. Likewise, the Hebrew word "aron" is used for the the Ark of God, Ark of the LORD, Ark of Testimony, or Ark of the Covenant, and this word normally translates as chest or coffin.

R.G. Benjamin

 2008/5/9 17:08Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710




I am sorry that you count as common the things that God sanctified.

For if you say that the sabbath is not holy and a day cannot be holy, then you are denying the very words of God.""

I don't deny the Sabbath Day as Holy, I embrace Him. Would you rather worship a day or Jesus Christ? The works not done on the Sabbath Keepers day of rest, is a works in itself and they are doing the works to keep the Seventh Day Holy. The works are not keeping the Sabbath but making themselves pleasing to God and sanctifying themselves.

God has made Jesus Christ our Sanctification, not the day which was just a shadow of Christ to come, and keeping the day is self works which the whole Law is about. Anything any person does to please God is a work unless it is through Christ Jesus and His works accomplished on the Cross. God will never accept our earthly works, He never did, the only way Israel still exists is by the mercy of God. The only way a Christian exists is by the mercy and Grace of God and the birthing of His Son in the believer.

Rom 3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

When Faith came the uncircumcision was justified through that Faith, which is Jesus Christ. The old testament saints were justified by the Faith which had not come, thus making the Law their mercy and justification by temporary sacrifice of animals as their Cross. Our Faith is come, and He is the Cross personified in Himself being the One that shed His own blood to purchase the sinner and the ungodly by His sacrifice to reconcile us to God the Father.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

You cannot keep the old and make it work in the new. Remember the old wine skins, you cannot put new wine in them or they burst. There has to be a complete new container to put new wine in to keep the container from bursting. We Christians are the New Wine Skins with the New Wine Himself in us. Thus making us a complete new container with the complete New Wine of Christ in us.

This is the new creature Paul is speaking about, behold old things have passed away and all things have become new.

That is what the Sabbath keeping is all about, we now keep the New Sabbath in Christ by the New Wine of Christs Seed of the Father now birthed in us.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

So your works of Sabbath keeping availeth nothing, but the New Creature, Which is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

This is how we are perfect in the Law and including the Sabbath, which Christ is.

It is His working in us that makes the Law perfect including the Sabbath Day, which is now truly Holy by The Christ that is in us.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

This is now our labor, striving according to His working, which worketh in us mightily.

Now, Colossians 3:1-17 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

We in the bond of perfectness keep the Sabbath because of the Love of Christ that is in us. Not because it is a Law, because Christ fulfilled that Law and He is now the Sabbath Himself and we in Love keep Him. All else is Idolotry, you are not living in the Grace that God has given us and Christ profits you nothing.

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

No Law or even under the Law does not count.

Galatians 5:1-6 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, (((((Christ shall profit you nothing.))))) For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

If Not then keep all 613 laws or you are condemned already.

This is our Sabbath, Christ Himself, whom worketh through faith by Love.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

To do this we must have the Love of God Himself In us, That is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.,
Then we fulfill the only two commandments Christ said fulfills the whole law. That by the Christ Himself in us, not by our works lest any man should boast.

Keep the Sabbath and make Him Holy, For He is our all in all. Not the Day.

In Christ: Phillip


 2008/5/9 17:55Profile

Joined: 2007/10/27
Posts: 86


I believe when Jayme or Jayou??? understand this scripture, a ray of light may shine in to open this truth, therefore giving him a greater understanding of the scriptures in Revelation so pressing upon his understanding.

Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first(Covenant), that he may establish the second (Covenant).

[u]By the which will [b]we[/b] are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [/u]

The Ark of His Testimony is in the Everlasting Covenant, from before the foundation of the world.

This Testimony being He died for our sin, and was raised again for our justification. Heb 13:20-21.

God's plan from eternity past, including His wrath upon those who have rejected His Son, by rejecting His finished work upon the Cross.

Vengence is mine sayeth the Lord, to those who have trampled underfoot the Son of God, counted the [u]BLOOD[/u] of the Covenant (Everlasting Covenant) an unholy thing, and insulted the Spirit of [u]GRACE[/u]. Grace is not of works.

The Word became Flesh and dwelt among us full of GRACE and TRUTH. By GRACE you have been saved through faith in His finished work upon the Cross.

[u]WE[/u], (not a day), have been sanctified through the Body of Christ [u]ONCE[/u] for all.

R.G. Benjamin

 2008/5/10 11:17Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


Amen Rev.


(when Christ in you is the only One that will make us, the branch, produce the fruit, the fruit of the Sabbath Rest is Christ. Making Him the only true Sabbath that we can deal with before God the Father. Much more when we try to do it ourselves as Keeping the Sabbath Day to make it Holy, we are showing God we don't trust the Seed that He, God the Father, has placed in us by our new birth. By you keeping the Sabbath to make it Holy, which He has already made us and the Day Holy in Christ Himself, you are slapping God in the Face and telling Him, now that you have given me salvation and killed your Son to do it, "I will" keep the Sabbath and "I will" make it Holy,)
(The true and Holy Sabbath Rest is coming out of the Seed and manifesting itself through us, Not that we keep the Sabbath Day to make it Holy, but the Sabbath Day Himself is flowing out of us and He is making it Holy.)
(Let Him make His Sabbath a blessing to others, not you keeping it and telling other they have to keep it also, or they are out of Gods blessing and won't receive the fruit of the Vine.)
(Rest in Him who is our true Sabbath, and let Him produce the Rest He has purchased on the Cross, Making His Seed in you produce the Fruit of the Sabbath which is unto God the Father. For what is the Sabbath for? Remember what the Father has done as when He took Israel out of Egypt. Just like He has taken us our of this, Satan's world and translated us into the Kingdom of His dear Son.)

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:

In Christ: Phillip


 2008/5/10 17:16Profile

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