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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Martin Luther King

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Amen to these posts from ccchhhrrrissss and ejg. It is the weighty issues that I am concerned with, the dying and the yielding and the surrendering, for only by dying and yielding and surrendering can we come into the presence of God. In His presence we will find fire, and that fire will consume the petty nonsense that takes up most of our time here on this planet................Frank

 2008/4/14 12:28

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7512


PS, Perhaps you read my piece from a different perspective than most?

Perhaps so.

Consider these quotes from the original post:
1. When I consider his life and the lives of those who were involved in that movement, I am deeply moved at their courage and the commitment to truth and to justice.

2. Yet here is the most glorious and brilliant part of Martin Luther Kings movement……..non-violence.

3. We know Martin Luther King today, this country is changed today, because of this policy of non-violence.

Appolus, I lived in the south during this era of time and it was not a NON-VIOLENT period of time: it was a time of WAR! Not only did you have the civil rights movement in full swing, you also had the anti-war movement ("make love and not war") going on. There were riots aplenty. Buildings were set afire with Molotov cocktails, there were sit-ins all demanding their rights and opinions to be followed. As a result the politicians caved in to the demands made by the radicals and we have today a greater mess then ever before. Allow me to explain.

There were a lot of things wrong in our nation in so far as race relations go, and it is NOT confined to the south. But in the south there were things that needed correcting, no doubt about it - and I will not detail those except to say that the ones mentioned were not even as bad as some others - just take my word for it. However, these things were in the process of being taken care of before MLK. And then there were riots, burnings....

MLK was welcomed in the black churches and they followed him like an innocent puppy. So he had leadership ability and if he is like the normal black male, he had a lot of charisma which endeared him to many. The churches welcomed an adulterer. Never have I read that he ever repented of it nor did the churches shun him because of it. Brother Paul still tells us in 1 Cor. 5 one should not have anything to do with a brother who is an adulterer.

So what happened? he was allowed into the [black] churches, they followed him and the churches were infected with that leaven which today puts the blacks in greater bondage then ever before. Illegitimacy is rampant, immorality among males and females is common. Black females do not want to marry: the only use they have for the males is to help them make a baby! When I ask them why they do not marry they all told me the guys are so sweet to start with and then after they marry they change into being a very unpleasant person and they did not want to go through that traumatic time. In the meantime shame for having an illegitimate child has disappeared in their society. How do I know? I have counseled hundreds of blacks during my tenure at a Crises Pregnancy Center.

Not only is it the black family, their entire social structure has experienced a complete breakdown. In addition to immorality, there is rampant drug abuse amongst them. I had heard this stat quoted and then I ran it by my black clients for their reaction and they confirmed it: 1/4 of all black males have either been in prison, are in prison or are out on parole. (I have since heard this percentage is now closer to 33%.) More black babies are aborted then any other race (I think). I could say more but will allow this to suffice.

My point: MLK has not helped the black community. The black churches have allowed an adulterer to minister to them, they have followed him and so many are now in greater bondage then before. There exists a great need in the black community for a godly spirit-filled man to go minister to them. The ones I know experience great frustration because of the blindness that exists in the community: you can tell them what they need to do and will agree, but will not follow through but are like the hog that has returned to his vomit and the mire. Civil rights legislation has helped the blacks very little in terms of spirituality.

Many godly blacks will affirm what I have written. They will also lament how the government has facilitated this slide into degeneracy by their social programs with locks people into poverty. Yes, the south needs godly black leaders who will lead their people into repentence and holiness. (Are you listening?) And while you are at it, see if you can help the whites as well! They need repenting and revival as well!

Now for the record: I do not know of any white churches in our community that do not welcome blacks into their services. They will be accorded any decent courtesy that I could expect as a white. And our church holds Vacation Bible School during the summer and the racial population is 75-80% black with the balance white.


Sandra Miller

 2008/4/15 19:49Profile


I believed that Ginnyrose had a different perspective, and there you have it, she has laid it out. I will let my brothers and sisters read it for themseleves and Frank

 2008/4/15 20:09


Anyone can call me what they want after this, but Ginny needs to hear this, also, to be making such comments, i hope that you are African -American to think you know the plight of the people that built this country on their backs.....


you r a judge, and i will not entertain your cynicism. You are simply ridiculous not personally becuz i do not know you, but as crippling on this issue. all you have to say from the very first post is NEGATIVE, simply to find fault , and this isn't the first post that you look for negativity..

You see Ginny these aren't comments to defend the faith, but they are slanderous, and definitely NOT uplifting...

Also, the comments are pharisaical and religiously judgmental unto ginnnyrose's opinion or thoughts

Even though your comments are highly ridiculous, you r loved, but your comments are rebukable, and I cannot allow you to degrade this man's or his legacy. God used him mightily..........

this post was all about how God used the man, how he allowed God to use him. I am done brother appolus with Ginnyrose, this is what sickens me about this site, I really try to bare, but the people, I do not know if i can call them saints, they are VICIOUS Appolus...... yes, we are to pray for them, but we are to run them out of the house also...

 2008/4/15 21:25

Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas


the comments are pharisaical and religiously judgmental


Ginny is entitled to express her views on MLK here just as much as you are allowed to assert the opposite with impunity. Why are we such loose cannons with the word "pharisee"? I have seen this word a dozen times already this week alone in here, and each time it is aimed at another brother or sister. 98% of the time it is used as an empty allegation or as an offensive weapon for a person whose feelings and pride are hurt, whose deep-seated convictions are challenged, and more often than not it indicts the one who speaks it rather than the one it is directed at. If you wish to rebuff the convictions she holds, please do your homework first and then come back with the contrary evidence. Can you do that?

Paul Frederick West

 2008/4/15 21:42Profile

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA


Hi everyone.

Near the end of the message titled Hosanna, Pastor Wurmbrand tells about a man who would go forward to take the beatings his fellow prisoners would have gotten.

Well, after all, what is more important, the life and faith and heart of others, or our right to express our opinons about the sins of others.

God's love be with you all,


Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/4/15 23:34Profile


Hi Guys

When I wrote this post, I did not intend it to be a post about racism. I am amazed at what the Lord taught on the sermon on the mount, it changed everything, a revolution of the DNA. I think if anyone read my post, they would see that, while the post was entitled "Martin Luther King," it was all about Jesus.

I do agree with Paul that people must be allowed to express their opinions. This is how we learn. That is why I invited Ginnyrose to tell us her perspective. EJG, I understand your pain on this issue. I do believe that I have a unique perspective on this issue as I do not come from the States. I would respectfully suggest to Ginnyrose that this does not take away from my own opinion and perspective.

I am a student of history. I have watched a thousand documetries and read countless books on these issues. I was careful in my post and in my replies to comment only on what I knew to be true. Dr King did lead a non-violent movement. Was there a lot of violence and riots and cities burning in the 60s? Yes, that cannot be disputed. I am not sure what that has to do with Dr Kings philosophy, unless Ginmnyrose is suggesting that while Dr King spoke publicly about non-violence, he secretly plotted violnce behind close doors. There is no evidence at all to suggest that and I would refute that.

Can I suggest to Ginnyrose that when Rosa Parks refused to sit at the back of the bus(God bless her) in the 50s, there was no cities burning. In fact my African American brothers and sisters decided to walk to work and to town, brilliant.

I think the bus issue and the whole aparthied issue was ignored by Ginnyrose, I think it was, although she hinted that there was worse than that going on, which of course there was. I was more interested in my question being answered, where were the Christians up until the 60s? Why were the churches segragated? Why did Christians not stand up and be counted? Thats why I suggested near the end of my post that I would rather march with the downtrodden, than be part of the crowd or sit at home and do nothing.

We know that all of Germany was guilty for the Nazis, and were sorely punished because of this. There can be national guilt, one does not have to actively participate in crimes against people to be guilty of them.

So, I would ask Ginnyrose, do you accept that the whole system in the South was rotten to the core? Do you accept that reconstruction failed after 10 years and the North packed up and went home and the plight of the African American was, in many cases, worse after the civil war?

Do you accept that the Govenor was completely wrong and the Government were right to send in the National guard to protect those young kids from a crowd that would have ripped them to pieces?

Ginnyrose, you do not have to answer any of my questions. I would simply suggest that even if Dr King was guilty of what you accused him of here in this forum, and even if he did not repent which you suggested(not sure why a Christian would not want to think the best of someone)his crime would pale into insignificance in comparison to the crimes perpetrated against African Americans by a society of "whites." Surey you would agree with that? And if that is true, then yes, repentence and forgiveness is vital. If brothers and sisters in Christ cannot be color-blind, then what hope is there for the rest of the nation?

This is a topical subject since Barack Obama could very possibly be our next President. It is vital that we in the Christian community shine as a light in the darkness against all forms of racism, whether it is White folk hating Black folk, or Black folk hating White folk. Bitterness is an absolute killer for any Christian. I may be wrong, but I sensed some bitterness in Ginnyrose when she speaks of Dr King, forgive me sister if I am wrong. EJG, you must protect your heart my friend. Even if your worse fears were realized and Ginnyrose was a racist, what did the Lord teach us to do from the sermon on the mount? We must love our enemies and do good to them that despitefully use us. I am not suggesting for a moment that Ginnyrose is a racist , just for the record.

 2008/4/15 23:44

Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Opinons

Believers are called the [b]body[/b] of Christ.

And words can be used like [b]weapons[/b](Proverbs 12:18).

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/4/16 6:05Profile


Ginny is entitled to express her views on MLK here just as much as you are allowed to assert the opposite with impunity. Why are we such loose cannons with the word "pharisee"? I have seen this word a dozen times already this week alone in here, and each time it is aimed at another brother or sister. 98% of the time it is used as an empty allegation or as an offensive weapon for a person whose feelings and pride are hurt, whose deep-seated convictions are challenged, and more often than not it indicts the one who speaks it rather than the one it is directed at. If you wish to rebuff the convictions she holds, please do your homework first and then come back with the contrary evidence. Can you do that?

Even the mention of MLK is, unfortunately, divisive.

One of the things that often happens in discussions like this is that certain people are entitled to speak all they want, and proclaim their opinions... and certain people are told to shut up and that their opinions are not entitled to be heard.

This is why I will rarely get into a discussion about race... especially with folks who dont know anything about me. As I said in a previous post, being a southerner sometimes automatically gets me labeled a racist by those living outside the south. "Oh, you're from the south? You must be a Klan member!"

Or they think that "Hee Haw" was reality TV about life in the south.

A Scotsman living in Kansas can not understand the deep seated, preconceived notions that Americans in one region have about Americans in another region.

And I admit it, I do the same thing. If I meet someone from NYC I have this notion in my mind about what they are like, and what they think.

White, black, purple or green. I dont care what color your skin is, you make something of yourself and dont blame other people or races when you fail. Thats called being an American.

(And yes, for the "theologians" who will jump on my comment "make something of yourself", obviously we should do so under the guidance and power of God)

I have my opinions on MLK... and I think many would be surprised by them. But I wonder what in the world a discussion about MLK has to do with the purpose of this forum?


 2008/4/16 7:42



My post was a perfectly legitimate one. Please re-read. Now if there are certain people who are bitter about Dr King, that too is a legitmate subject. Bitterness is a spiritual killer, regardless of the rights or wrongs of of the matter.

As far as a Scotsman not being able to understand deep seated pre-concieved notions of one region of America for another, well that just does not make any sense. As a Scotsman I understand what it means to be judged by the mere fact of the geographical location of your birth. But lets suppose your point is correct, then what you are saying is that a white person cannot possibly understand the experiece of a black person in the south, you may have a point.

When we look at the twelve disciples, we see an extremly diverse group of people. Yet, they were united by the Holy Spirit. That should be our model. Instead of having pride in coming from the "North," or the "South," we should have pride in belonging to Jesus. Our total identity should be in the fact that we are a brotherhood that knows no bounderies, a universal brotherhood. Lets leave the partisan geographical nonsense to the world, let us be otherworldy and peculiar and maybe then we could be a model for the world.

Just for your information Krispy, in Great Britain I came from the North. The English still do not care for "Northeners," and my own people, in general, cannot stand the southeners. This has been going on for almost 1000 years. South hated North, and North hated South where I came from, long before America , as a nation, existed, so yes I understand all too well. I undesrtand that both groups are extremely proud of where they come from and it has caused wars for centuries. Let us, as Christians, elevate ourselves , transcend petty geographical pride and be lovers of all people........Frank

 2008/4/16 8:55

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