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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 2 Samuel 14:17, spiritual gift of discernment?

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Acts 13:14-41 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it. And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness. And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot. And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose. Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead: And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

In This is the separation of The Christ in Paul and David. The Spiritual corruption in Paul is also suspended by the Christ in him as in us.

David saw corruption and Christ did see no corruption.

We must see the difference in the Corn of Wheat planted in the Ground. Christ planted and stating He would be alone unless He were planted, but praise God, He raised Jesus from the dead and the Seed no longer abides alone, but is producing much fruit and it is in those that are born again. We were planted with Him and we are resurrected with Him unto eternal Life in Christ Jesus. David could not accomplish this and never would, even if He had attained the Heart of God.

Our life and all that we are are in Christ and nothing in the old testament is for the believer in Christ Jesus the Head of the Church the Body of Christ, His bride.

Only 1/5 of the Scripture are for the Born Again believer in Christ and most of that was given to Paul to fulfill the Word of God.

The other 4/5 are for Israel and will still be accomplished for God's people Israel, not for the Bride of Christ.

If you don't rightly divide the scriptures, our salvation in Christ is done away with in still trying to keep the Law of the Commandments, which Christ is the only one that fulfilled them and the only one that ever will. This making those in Christ the fulfillment of God's Word in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior and Life and all that we are and ever will be.

For it is in Him that our Glory stands.

Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Not in anything that David accomplished except by His Seed, which is Mary, in whom the Seed of God Gave Christ a living body prepared for Him by God. He is our only Life and let us seek Him and none of the OLD Testament, because there is no life in the OLD.

In Him is our life, that is the New, accomplished on the Cross and by the Father who killed Him just to get you and me and all that believe, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, which none in the Old could see or believe, because it had not happened.

Don't commingle Old with New, the old wine skin will burst.

"I am made a minister" This is Paul bringing to the New the Christ in us position that no other prophet or Apostle had been given. God chose Paul from His mother's womb to bring this message which was hidden for all generation past, including David.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Even in this it is not Paul's working, it is Christ who works in all that the Father has given Him and us that are Born Again of the Spirit of Christ and the Water of Life which is only in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/4/7 19:42Profile
rookie
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 Re:


Brother Chris wrote:

Quote:
Also, about Psalm 40, verses 6 and 7, and perhaps part of 8 are made refrence to in Hebrews chapter 10, in regards to Christ.



The writer of Hebrews ascribed this testimony to Christ.

Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Likewise, David inspired by the Holy Spirit wrote these words...

Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,

We know that Christ was sinless and David's flesh is corrupt like ours. Paul teaches that no one can please God unless that person obey's the Holy Spirit.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

We know that this precept, this law covers all generations, not just those of the new testatment.

Is this true?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/4/8 8:32Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip quoted from Acts:

Quote:
I will give you the sure mercies of David.



In Isaiah 55 we hear this...

Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.


Isa 55:4 Behold, I have given him [for] a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people

Who did God give the "sure mercies of David," too?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/4/8 8:46Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
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 Re:

Rookie wrote:

"""Brother Phillip quoted from Acts:



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will give you the sure mercies of David.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In Isaiah 55 we hear this...

Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.


Isa 55:4 Behold, I have given him [for] a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people

Who did God give the "sure mercies of David," too?"""



To Christ to give to us in the dispensation of Grace.

To those that would thirst for salvation.
When the Holy Spirit came, One of the Purposes in that Coming was to convict of sin. Then the Thirist.

This is what the Thirst is all about, thirsting in a dry desert for the Quenching of that thirst for salvation.

The rest is plainly clear that that thirst could only be quenched by the Savior to come, Jesus Christ. His Spirit born again in us and the quenching with Living water, as the woman at the well.

That is why Moses was so severely repremanded when he struck the rock in anger, instead of speaking to the rock as God gave order, for water to flow for all the people, that would come to the water.

David could not be born again or Spirit and Water because the giver of birth, the Seed of Christ had not been yet born and the Author of Birth could not put the sacrificed and risen Seed of the Lamb in the believer and birth that Seed in those that believe that He Jesus Christ was Son of God come to offer the kingdom to Israel, and not in the believer until The Holy Spirit came to seal us into Christ at Pentecost then convicting of sin and creating the thirst.

The leader and commander to the people is the shadow of Christ, presented as David. That is where the similarity ends, David could not touch the Glory that Christ received from the Cross and given us, the same Glory. "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

Keep trying and thirsting in a dry land, but this mystery could not be revealed until it was given to Paul. David had no Idea what this mystery was and could not partake of it until The Lamb was slain before the foundation of the World manifested at the Cross and then the Plan of God could be fulfilled in the dispensation of God given to Paul, fulfilling that thirst in Christ.

Mar 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Ephesians 1:3-7 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This was not to reconcile us to Israel but to God, in the dispensation of God Given to Paul to fulfill this Word of God in Eph 1:4.

Colossians 1:21-27 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

In Christ: Phillip




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Phillip

 2008/4/8 14:03Profile
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 Re:

Hi Jeff,






"The writer of Hebrews ascribed this testimony to Christ.

Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Likewise, David inspired by the Holy Spirit wrote these words...

Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,"



Jeff, do you mean that david wrote that, describing himself?


How could that be?


Why would David be [b]coming[/b] to do anything, or was it ever [b]written of him[/b] before hand that he should?


Wouldn't this rather be of Christ, who said the scriptures testified of Him?


David said "Blessed [i]is he whose[/i] transgression [i]is[/i] forgiven, [i]whose[/i] sin [i]is[/i] covered."




But the Lord Jesus said He always did those things that pleased His Father(John 8:29).




Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/4/9 6:28Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Jeff, do you mean that david wrote that, describing himself?



Yes. David was testifying of what God has done in his life. He is testifying of the "sure mercies" of God and how God enabled him to love Him.

Everyone who read this Psalm believed what David wrote. Paul writes of the same understanding when he encourages the believers to follow him as he follows Christ.



Psa 40:1 PSALM 40
To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David.
I WAITED patiently for the LORD;


And He inclined to me,
And heard my cry.
Psa 40:2 He also brought me up out of a horrible pit,
Out of the miry clay,
And set my feet upon a rock,
And established my steps.
Psa 40:3 He has put a new song in my mouth--
Praise to our God;
Many will see it and fear,
And will trust in the LORD.

Psa 40:4 Blessed is that man who makes the LORD his trust,
And does not respect the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.
Psa 40:5 Many, O LORD my God, are Your wonderful works
Which You have done;
And Your thoughts toward us
Cannot be recounted to You in order;
If I would declare and speak of them,
They are more than can be numbered.

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.
Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.
Psa 40:7 Then I said, "Behold, I come;
In the scroll of the book it is written of me.
Psa 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart."

Psa 40:9 I have proclaimed the good news of righteousness
In the great assembly;
Indeed, I do not restrain my lips,
O LORD, You Yourself know.
Psa 40:10 I have not hidden Your righteousness within my heart;
I have declared Your faithfulness and Your salvation;
I have not concealed Your lovingkindness and Your truth
From the great assembly.

Psa 40:11 Do not withhold Your tender mercies from me, O LORD;
Let Your lovingkindness and Your truth continually preserve me.
Psa 40:12 For innumerable evils have surrounded me;
My iniquities have overtaken me, so that I am not able to look up;
They are more than the hairs of my head;
Therefore my heart fails me.

Psa 40:13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me;
O LORD, make haste to help me!
Psa 40:14 Let them be ashamed and brought to mutual confusion
Who seek to destroy my life;
Let them be driven backward and brought to dishonor
Who wish me evil.
Psa 40:15 Let them be confounded because of their shame,
Who say to me, "Aha, aha!"

Psa 40:16 Let all those who seek You rejoice and be glad in You;
Let such as love Your salvation say continually,
"The LORD be magnified!"
Psa 40:17 But I am poor and needy;
Yet the LORD thinks upon me.
You are my help and my deliverer;
Do not delay, O my God.

We know that the writer of Hebrews selected a portion of this Scripture to testify of Christ's life. David also did all these things which are recorded in the Scriptures.

We know that David and the writer of Hebrews were both inspired by the Holy Spirit to write this Scripture. The real question...what allows David to claim the same inheritance as Christ?

Now if one believes that the priest hood of Melchizedeck has always been, according to how we understand time, then we know that Christ has always ministered to those who are saved by God's "lovingkindness and truth" through faith. We then begin to see the preeminance of Christ throughtout time. We see that He was predestined to accomplish salvation in all who repent and hear.

Faith comes by the word of God...


Again listen to the words of David who was inspired by the Holy Spirit...

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/4/9 13:04Profile
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
To Christ to give to us in the dispensation of Grace.



Yes this is true...

Have you ever considered what the Scriptures are describing when we hear these words...

Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.

What are the "sure mercies of David"? Where can we find Scripture which defines what God gave to David when David repeatedly testifies of God's "lovingkindness and truth"?

Your brother in Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/4/9 13:14Profile
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 Re:

Yes Jeff, my dear brother, I have considered the sure mercies of David, and they are of the seed of David, that is Christ, He is the sure mercy of David by David's seed, which is Mary, which brings the Seed of God, (which is Christ), which is: 1 Peter 1:18-25 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: (((((Being born again,))))) (((((not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word (Logos) of God,))))) (Himself) (added for context) which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

This Gospel is the Gospel of Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Colossians 1:4-8 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.

Hear it?

By Paul also, which is his personal Gospel given Him for us by Jesus Christ Himself which was not given until or before revealed to Paul.

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/4/9 17:06Profile
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 Re:

Hi again Jeff,


"Yes. David was testifying of what God has done in his life."



But what do you mean Jeff, that God brought David into the world and wrote a book that testified of him? I don't think you mean that, but that is what is spoken of here...


"Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,"


Well, who is saying "Lo, I come" here then brother...



According to Hebrews 10:5 isn't it Christ...


"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith..."


The he is Christ, brother.



To do what,


Verse 9 says in part


"...He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second."


To take away what,


In verse 1,


"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [i]and[/i] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect."


How does he take it away,


Verse 5 again,


"...but a body hast thou prepared me:"



And verse 10,


"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [i]for all[/i]."





"Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God."



[i]...in the volume of the book it is written of me[/i]



The Lord Jesus said that the scriptures testified of Him(John 5:39).


In Acts 10 it says of Him



"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."


- Acts 10:43(KJV)


See also Luke 22:44.




[i]...to do thy will[/i]



David said at the end of his life,



"The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spoke to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God."


- 2Samuel 23:3(KJV)


And then he goes on to say,


"Although my house [i]be[/i] not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all [i]things[/i], and sure: for [i]this is[/i] all my salvation, and all [i]my[/i] desire, although he make [i]it[/i] not to grow."


- 2Samuel 23:5(KJV)


He said his house was not so, yet...

[i]...yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant...[/i]


Is Psalm 89 it says, in verses 3 and 4


"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, Thy seed will I establish forever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah."


But how, who would sit on that throne forever,


verse 19,


"Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon [i]one that is[/i] mighty; I have exalted [i]one[/i] chosen out of the people."





And in Isaiah it says,


"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

- Isaiah 9:6(KJV)




"Of the increase of [i]his[/i] government and peace [i]there shall be[/i] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."


- Isaiah 9:7(KJV)



[i]...to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever[/i]


David said his house was not so. But this above is written not of David, but of the Mighty God.




"For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? [i]who[/i] among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD?"


- Psalm 89:6(KJV)


The Lord Jesus Christ. He can.





Grace and peace,


Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/4/9 18:23Profile
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Joined: 2008/3/29
Posts: 38
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 Re: 2 Samuel 14:17, spiritual gift of discernment?

Greetings,

After reading the posts concerning your question, I cannot say that they all answer your question themumfs.

Let me explain. I do not believe that David was using spiritual discernment in this passage. I do not believe that he was implied to act as if the Holy Spirit was consuming him.

We have to be careful and keep the passage in context with Chapter 14 (2 Samuel) itself. I will not do an expository on the entire chapter, but I will say that the maidservanet needed comforting. She asked David to comfort her the same way an angel of the Lord would be comforting. She did not imply that David was an angel of the Lord. As far as the discrenment goes, she asked David to be able to distinguish the difference between right and wrong. She wasn't implying for him to discern as God would.

There is a difference between discernment and spiritual discernment. I believe that the "lost" or "unsaved" can discern between right and wrong. I have been in a courtroom and heard a murderer plee for his life and apologize because he knew right from wrong and that he did a wrong doing. I later saw that man saved by the blood of Jesus in jail. So, being able to discern right from wrong is not exactly the same as being filled with the Holy Spirit and discerning spiritually.
The maidservant was pleading that David know the difference between right and wrong.

However, David was part of God's glorious plan for the Messiah our Lord Jesus Christ. From the beginning of time to the end of time is and has always been about the Savior. I do believe that David was being led by God. As do I believe that Abraham, Moses and Joseph was led by God. It has all been part of God's glorious plan to reveal the coming of Jesus Christ. I believe that God places all things in order pertaining to His will. David was a great man of God. However, he was not Jesus and was not consumed with the Spirit of God as if he were a "minor Jesus." God directs the paths of thos that He wishes in order to fulfill His goal.

The old covenant and the new covenant are types and shadows of one another.

I hope that what I said makes since. Thanks.

In Christ,

Joe Benson


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Joe

 2008/4/10 7:07Profile





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