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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 2 Samuel 14:17, spiritual gift of discernment?

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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

Has anyone begun listening to Denny Kenaston's teaching on the life of David? This man's preaching is also anointed....

http://www.charityministries.org/msg_detail.a5w?vlast_index=SET146

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/4/5 8:16Profile
ChrisJD
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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Jeff,



Initially it was asked here if what is described in the passage from Samuel was [b]the same as the gift of discerning of spirits in Corinthians[/b].


I don't think it is.


Hope that clarifies things a bit more,




Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/4/5 10:00Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

Quote:

""Has anyone begun listening to Denny Kenaston's teaching on the life of David? This man's preaching is also anointed....""

God does not want us to be like David, if man can do it himself as this man is preaching, then Christ died in vain.

Gods want for us is to embrace the Christ that He sacrificed for us and become like Him. There is no life in David or any other old testament prophet. There is only life in Christ Jesus our Lord, Whom God has rebirthed in the believer that we might have the nature and life of God in us.

If I am going to study a biography, it will be the life of the Christ that is in me, He is the only one who is pleasing to God, He has the Heart of God and does not have to be after it, It is His. Making it ours by His life that is in us. I don't have to be a man after God's own heart, God Himself has birthed that Person in us and His Heart is ours and ours is His.

God chose David to be an example of who Christ would be and now is in our life. It was Gods work and good pleasure that David was a shadow of Christ. Christ is the completion of that shadow and as He is in this world so are we, not by anything that we have done or ever will do, but by the work of Christ in you the Only Hope of Glory.

1 John 4:14-21 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

This is of God, not imitating David's life.

""Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as He is, so are we in this world.""

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/4/5 17:18Profile
rookie
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 Re: 2 Samuel 14:17, spiritual gift of discernment?

Quote:
this seems to imply that David (the king) had what we know in corinthians to be described as the spiritual gift of discernment. But this is before christ and the coming of the holy spirit. Yes the Holy Spirit did come upon David, but that doesnt meant that he had the holy spirit dwelling inside him as is the situation post cruicifixion. Also, joab states in this verse that david is "as the angel of God" what does it all mean???



The Lord gave David the Holy Spirit based on Scripture. One of the fruits of the Spirit in David's life is discernment...

Psalm 17:
4 Concerning the works of men,
By the word of Your lips,
I have kept away from the paths of the destroyer.

"By the word of Your lips" This is David's testimony of the Holy Spirit's work which teaches him to discern evil.

Psalm 25:
8 Good and upright is the LORD;
Therefore He teaches sinners in the way.
9 The humble He guides in justice,
And the humble He teaches His way.
10 All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth,
To such as keep His covenant and His testimonies.
11 For Your name’s sake, O LORD,
Pardon my iniquity, for it is great.
12 Who is the man that fears the LORD?
Him shall He teach in the way He chooses.
13 He himself shall dwell in prosperity,
And his descendants shall inherit the earth.
14 The secret of the LORD is with those who fear Him,
And He will show them His covenant.

Here again we have David in whom the Spirit of God caused him to write these words...

Again..."The secret of the Lord is with those who fear Him, and He will show them His covenant."

Psalm 27

7 Hear, O LORD, when I cry with my voice!
Have mercy also upon me, and answer me.
8 When You said, “Seek My face,”
My heart said to You, “Your face, LORD, I will seek.”
9 Do not hide Your face from me;
Do not turn Your servant away in anger;
You have been my help;
Do not leave me nor forsake me,
O God of my salvation.
10 When my father and my mother forsake me,
Then the LORD will take care of me.
11 Teach me Your way, O LORD,
And lead me in a smooth path, because of my enemies.

Again we see a conversation between David and the Lord. How does God teach David?

Psa. 36:0 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David the servant of the LORD.

Psa. 36:1 An oracle within my heart concerning the transgression of the wicked:
There is no fear of God before his eyes.
2 For he flatters himself in his own eyes,
When he finds out his iniquity and when he hates.
3 The words of his mouth are wickedness and deceit;
He has ceased to be wise and to do good.
4 He devises wickedness on his bed;
He sets himself in a way that is not good;
He does not abhor evil.
5 Your mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens;
Your faithfulness reaches to the clouds.
6 Your righteousness is like the great mountains;
Your judgments are a great deep;
O LORD, You preserve man and beast.
7 How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God!
Therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of Your wings.
8 They are abundantly satisfied with the fullness of Your house,
And You give them drink from the river of Your pleasures.
9 For with You is the fountain of life;
In Your light we see light.
10 Oh, continue Your lovingkindness to those who know You,
And Your righteousness to the upright in heart.
11 Let not the foot of pride come against me,
And let not the hand of the wicked drive me away.
12 There the workers of iniquity have fallen;
They have been cast down and are not able to rise.

Here David teaches about the wicked and the righteous.
7 How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God!
Therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of Your wings.
8 They are abundantly satisfied with the fullness of Your house,
And You give them drink from the river of Your pleasures.
9 For with You is the fountain of life;
In Your light we see light.
10 Oh, continue Your lovingkindness to those who know You,
And Your righteousness to the upright in heart.

Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit fashioned his heart. The Holy Spirit testifies that David could discern between good and evil.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/4/6 16:10Profile
rookie
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 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:


Quote:
God does not want us to be like David, if man can do it himself as this man is preaching, then Christ died in vain.



Paul wrote this to Timothy...

2Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,


All Scripture is given by inspiration of God...

Paul is only mentioned 156 times in Scripture....

David appears 1087 times in Scripture....

Brother Phillip, have you considered why the Scriptures testify of David's life as a "type" of Christ?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2008/4/6 16:18Profile
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 Re:

Yes I have considered the Life of David and don't want to be like David, that would be taking a step down from what God in Christ Jesus has made me, A SON.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Was David perfect? Was Christ Perfect?

I hope you see the difference and the difference that Christ in you makes in the believer. He is the One that furnishes all the good works that is in us. Not David.

This is the fulfillment of all God's works. This is the only thing that will make us perfect and that is the Christ birthed in us.

There is no perfection in David who was just a shadow of Christ the Only Perfect One and He the only One making us perfect.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

David does not work in me mightily.

We will meet David some day and we will See Jesus as He really is. Who would you want to be like and who would you want to bring your salvation dependence to. The Law of David and Israel or the Grace of Christ. Which would you want to put your trust and life in, the mercy poured out on David and Israel or the Grace through the Faith of the Son of God. Mercy or Grace

I will choose God's loving Grace in Christ Jesus, our life, over mercy every time.

To not do all the works of the Law demands Mercy or death. To live in Grace demands the works accomplished by the Grace giver in the one who has received Grace by the Grace givers Faith.

How are we presented Perfect to God the Father?

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may ((((present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.)))))

This is according to His working in us, that we can be presented perfect to the Father. Truly Christ in you is the only Hope of Glory.

Who does the work in us? Certainly not David or his life, because it was God who wrought the works in David's life not David. David's works were adultry and murder and not being a good father.



In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/4/7 3:57Profile
ChrisJD
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 Re:

Hi everyone


"David's works were..."



Remember too how he had to be kept back from killing Nabal. And the census that he took, where 70,000 died in Israel.




"The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spoke to me, He that ruleth over men [i]must be[/i] just, ruling in the fear of God. And [i]he shall be[/i] as the light of the morning, [i]when[/i] the sun riseth, [i]even[/i] a morning without clouds; [i]as[/i] the tender grass [i]springing[/i] out of the earth by clear shining after rain. Although my house [i]be[/i] not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all [i]things[/i], and sure: for [i]this is[/i] all my salvation, and all [i]my[/i] desire, although he make it not to grow."



- 2Samuel 23:3-5(KJV)



"...Although my house [i]be[/i] not so with God"


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/4/7 6:27Profile
rookie
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 Re:

Quote:
Yes I have considered the Life of David and don't want to be like David, that would be taking a step down from what God in Christ Jesus has made me, A SON.





Quote:
There is no perfection in David who was just a shadow of Christ the Only Perfect One and He the only One making us perfect.




How then does one reconcile this Scripture...

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the [son] of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Was God wrong when He said this of David?

How about Psalm 40, a song which David wrote...

Psa 40:1 ¶ [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.


Psa 40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, [and] established my goings.


Psa 40:3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, [even] praise unto our God: many shall see [it], and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.


Psa 40:4 Blessed [is] that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.


Psa 40:5 Many, O LORD my God, [are] thy wonderful works [which] thou hast done, and thy thoughts [which are] to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: [if] I would declare and speak [of them], they are more than can be numbered.


Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.


Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,


Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.


Psa 40:9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.


Psa 40:10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.


Psa 40:11 Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me.


Psa 40:12 For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.


Psa 40:13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me.


Psa 40:14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.


Psa 40:15 Let them be desolate for a reward of their shame that say unto me, Aha, aha.


Psa 40:16 Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee: let such as love thy salvation say continually, The LORD be magnified.


Psa 40:17 But I [am] poor and needy; [yet] the Lord thinketh upon me: thou [art] my help and my deliverer; make no tarrying, O my God.


How does one reconcile these Scriptures "based" on the Scriptures?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

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 Re:

2 Corinthians 5:16-21 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

After the flesh, we are to know no man, not depending on the works of the flesh or anything the flesh has accomplished. David was a man after God's own heart, only because God first gave him the heart to seek Him. We know David no longer in the flesh, if we are to know him, we will know him only in the spirit, if it pleases God. Seek Christ and His kingdom, where we are seated with Him in the Spirit in Heavenly Places and this is what is pleasing to God, be ye reconciled to God by the Christ that is now our lives.

With Christ in us we are new creatures, born of God, not just used of God to show what He was going to do when His own Son would Go to the Cross and accomplish the newness of life we have in Christ.

God knew that even if He raised up a David that no one would listen and would still need a savior and new life to bring son's of God into His House.

That is accomplished in Christ our only hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/4/7 12:51Profile
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 Re:

Hi Jeff,


About Acts 13:22, the entry in Robertson's Word Pictures suggests that...



"The words quoted by Paul as a direct saying of God are a combination of Psa_89:20, Psa_89:21; 1Sa_13:14 (the word of the Lord to Samuel about David)."



Also...


"Hackett observes that the commendation of David is not absolute, but, as compared with the disobedient Saul, he was a man who did God’s will in spite of the gross sin of which he repented (Ps 51). Note “wills” (thelēmata), plural, of God."






Also, about Psalm 40, verses 6 and 7, and perhaps part of 8 are made refrence to in Hebrews chapter 10, in regards to Christ.


Maybe compare this also with Psalm 89 and verses 19 and 27 in particular.


And verse 6 and 27 here with Colossians 1:15-19.




Grace and peace,


Chris


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Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/4/7 18:48Profile





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