Matt5:17 [b]THINK NOT that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am NOT come to destroy, BUT [u]TO[/u] fulfil[/b]. 18For verily I say unto you, [b]Till heaven AND earth PASS[/b], one jot or one tittle SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, [u][i][color=FF0000]till "ALL BE" fulfilled[/color][/i][/u]. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Often I hear this statement being made to the defense that we do not have to keep the 10 Commandments-( more specifically when speaking on the sabbath), but what I am confused about, and have a question for those who hold that view:

Where does the Bible actually say that Jesus has done this ALREADY in that sense?

From my reading above, and emphasis on the bold and highlighted parts- Jesus doesn't say that the law will cease when I fulfill it, but rather he says that the law will end when HEAVEN and EARTH have PASSED AWAY and "ALL" has been fulfilled.

He says this in verse 18For verily I say unto you, [b]Till heaven AND earth PASS, one jot or one tittle SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW,till ALL be FULFILLED.

What is the " ALL" that must be fulfilled?
Luke 24:44[color=FF0000]And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that "ALL THINGS"[/b] must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, CONCERNING ME.[/color]

So "ALL THINGS" concerning JESUS written in the law of Moses, AND IN THE PROPHETS, AND in the Psalms MUST be fulfilled-before one jot, or one title of the law shall pass-

My other question is: it is mentioned in the prophets about his second coming, and the thousand year reign of Christ-two events CONCERNING CHRIST which have NOT been fulfilled YET-so how can people say that Christ have fulfilled the law in defense of Christians not having to observe the Sabbath, when " ALL THINGS" pertaining to Christ HAVE NOT been fulfilled-neither have he FUlFILLED ALL THINGS YET?

#2. Even if Jesus has fulfilled the law (in that sense)-no where in the scripture have I ever seen where it is said that he fulfilled it FOR US, so that we would NO LONGER HAVE TO ADHERE IT-if that was the case, then why does apostle Paul tell us:

Rom 8[b]Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law[/b].

Then in verse 9 he goes on to list some of the 5 of the 10 Commandments that relate to our relationship with our neighbor-

9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is [b]briefly comprehended[/b] in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

In verse 8 Pauls us, the followers of Jesus Christ, how we can "FULFILL the Law"-so if Jesus completely fulfilled it for us in the sense that people use that statement-then why does the Holy Spirit empress upon Paul to instruct us on how WE can fulfill the law?

If Christ fulfilled the law of us in the sense that we do not have to honor or obey the 10 Commandments (specifically the Sabbath), then we should also be saying that we do not have to love one another which is the fulfillment of the Law because Christ hath fulfilled that for us?

But also, in verse 9-all of verse Rom 8:9 you can find in the 10 Commandments, and the law of Moses. Even when the Spirit through Paul says :

"... and if there be any other commandment, it is [b]BRIEFLY COMPREHENDED (understood)[/b] in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Which, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself"-iitself is from the 10 Commandments and the Law of Moses:

Lev 19:18Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but [b]thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself[/b]: I am the LORD.

Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. (This is really the first 4 of the 10 Commandments summed up)

Which is even where Jesus gets: Matt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (That is just a simple break down, understanding of the whole of the 10 Commandments)

Note: I am not saying that Christians must keep the law of Moses pertaining to the sacrifices, blood of goats, abtaining from various foods, etc...

What I am stating is, if you say Jesus fulfilled the law in the sense of we don't have to obey, or honor the 10 Commandments (especially about the Sabbath)-then you need to also say the same thing about us NOT having to love one another because you would have to stay consistent with your statement or mode of thought thatJesus fulfilled the law FOR US.

So basically I am just trying to understand the logic in that statement, with those beliefs and motives "Christ fulfilled the Law [b]FOR US[/b]"

I will end by saying this, JESUS is the fulfillment of ALL prophecies, but that doesn't mean that ALL prophecies have BEEN fulfilled(yet)-neither does that mean that prophesy has ended in the sense of being totally done away with.

Hi

The fullfilment of the law , as pertains to the Sabbath would quite simply mean that every day was a sabbath day to those who had a new heart. Sabbath was designed to make men stop and think about their God, it was designed not for God, but for us. To thise who have the new heart, every day is as unto the Lord, what a great thing. It is no longer by the letter that we honor God on this one day, it is by the Spirit that we honor God every day.

So Sabbath is not done away with, it is expanded, it is no longer kept by dutiful people who do not want to break a Law, it is fulfilled by a people that live every day as unto God. Therefore, in the OT, when one respected his neigbors by not brwaking the Law, then in the NT what we have is a Spirit led, genuine heartfelt love for all men, especially your "brethern.

One more thing to consider, if a Christian is now operating under the Letter of the Law, and not the fullfilment, then that "Christian," should be keeping Saturday holy and not Sunday. No where in the OT does it suggest that you get to pick the day you "keep Holy." Yet, praise God, we are not under the Letter of the Law, we are convereted and our new hearts go above and beyond what is written, for it now goes to the heart and not merely "outward appearance."...............Frank

Romans 8:2-4

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin condemned sin the the flesh:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

7:6,7
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, *'Thou shalt not covet'."

*(notice that Paul mentioned the commandments not the ordinances.....)

The forshadowing of Christ not simply fulfilling the law FOR ME; but rather of BIENG the fulfillment... every shadow, every figure, every sacrifice, every part of the tabernacle, every commandment: Christ IS the fulfillment.

HE, Christ, does not "do away" with the law, as humans often preceive "do away"; rather the "law" has changed it's form: becoming the fulfillment of the "new covenant" which God described in the Prophets.

Both in Jeremiah and Ezekiel this "new covenant" was an internal law; one written upon the heart, one established within the thought and intent of the man;

whose life is under the authority to the law of "life in Christ Jesus". Those who do not live after the flesh, the fleshly fulfillment of acting out the law- rather the LIVING out of the HEART of the law!

Christ is not only the "propitiation"- the mercy seat, He is righteousness of God! God forbid that I should seek my own righteousness by establishing a "law" which I can follow by simply doing or not doing!!! NO, I MUST BE!!

I can not simply DO "Christian like" things and therefore BE a Christian! I must BECOME, I must change, I must be born anew, I must live anew- according to the resurrection power of Christ Jesus, according to the Promise which Christ sent back to earth FOR US- the Holy Spirit- that I may not only be influenced by words written on a page, but on The Word written on my heart!

By the way:
He is the ONLY place....

(by place I mean position, location in the heavenlies, position within my own heart and mind- under His authority- under His direction- under His teaching)

Christ ALONE IS the rest of God!!!
"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

For he that is entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief." Heb4:9,10

Dear Brother, I hope I did not offend in any way; I just felt compelled to share, please forgive me if in any way I came across inappropriately. I struggled many years with these things and after many tears, many prayers, many years of asking and seeking: these are some of the things God has shown me..

a sister in Christ

_________________
Lori Salyer

The blessing of this new Covenant is that I no longer live, but Christ live in me, the life I know live I live by faith in the son of God who gave himself for me. Its the hope of Glory - Christ in me! His vital life in me! That is what makes us different from every other religion on the planet.

Wow, Wow, wow!!!!!

_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

Dear brother blazedbyGod,

Please allow me to comment on your message.

Did Jesus fulfilled the law?

Most definetely yes, for scripture clearly says that He sinned not.

Did Jesus nullified the law?

Most definetely not, for should he have done it, then we would sin no more, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.

Please allow me to put some questions for everybody here.

1- If the word fulfil means nulified, got rid off. Does it mean that everybody will get saved for if there is no law, there is no transgretion, therefore no sin. Or how does it work, is the law nulified, done away only for those who come to Christ?

Please I would like an explanation for Romans 2

Romans 2:6-27 who "will render to each one according to his deeds": 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness -- indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. 17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, 18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For "the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you," as it is written. 25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?


I would like an explanation for verses 12,13,14 and verse 15. Any comments anybody??????





2- second question.


Exodus 34:28 And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deuteronomy 10:2 'And I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke; and you shall put them in the ark.'

Now this is what John saw.....

Revelation 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple.

====

My question is, what is the important thing,

ark or what is inside of it?

the other question is.

Should God open the ark that is in the heavenly tabernacle.

How would we read the fourth commandment?

Keep the seventh day or the first day of the week?

would the seventh day of rest be described as a

Day or the person of Jesus Christ?

Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the same description of the fourth commandment that was written in the two tablets for moses in so like maner will the the ten commandments inside the ark in the heavenly tabernacle.

I would love to hear any comments in regard of the ark that John saw in the heavenly tabernacle....


God bless us all.

Peace in Jesus Christ......