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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : God's grace runs out.

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 Re: When God's grace runs out

Phillip, greetings,

It was done at the Cross and we need to stay in that life and that Grace and that Faith that God has provided for our salvation.

I just had to say 'amen' to this statement. :-)

It's always good to see the solid truth of scripture expounded.

 2008/4/2 17:31

Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462

 Re: God's grace runs out.

Yes, I concur, that God's Grace for an individual can run out-as to God's Spirit will not always strive with man-or even along with that, there are things that God simply just does not tolerate any length of time. ( Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost-in which God does not tolerate to any extent, that once it is actually willfully committed, the hope of salvation will never be a possibility for that individual. Then also, there is lying to the Holy Ghost, which is one/a/the sin that is UNTO death-as you see this in the Book of Acts with:
Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, [b]why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost[/b], and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? [b]thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.[/b] 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.

This was a believer, whom Satan was able to fill his heart to lie to the Holy Ghost-and it is also most proven that this is one of the sins that is unto death-and apparently that God does not tolerate to any extent.

Another sin that is unto death (as I believe) is when you agree with someone to TEMPT the SPIRIT OF THE LORD, as we see with Ananias's wife: 7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. 8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. 9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to [b]tempt the Spirit of the Lord?[/b] behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.

In which, of course, she lied as well-but neither of them received any grace when they committed such crime against the Spirit of God-in which, we neither see Peter praying for either of them or even offering any mercy........though he did with Simeon the sorcerer.

Ananias and his wife-BELIEVERS IN the Church (the first century Church at that) committed an act of sin that was UNFORGIVABLE, but Simeon the Sorcerer committed a sin that indeed was treacherous, but possibly able to be forgiven.

Acts 8:13 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done...18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 [b]Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and PRAY GOD, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.[/b]

Simon was told to Repent, but Ananias and his wife, were never told to repent-I believe they weren't told to Repent, because at that point they had already committed the sin that is unto death that is never forgivable. In other words, even lying to the Holy Ghost is a form of Blasphemy of/to/against the Holy Ghost. Simon was also told and given the opportunity to " PRAY to God", but neither Ananias nor his wife were given this opportunity. Thus you see somewhat of some kind of Grace/mercy bestowed toward Simon, but no kind of grace/mercy soever for/towards Ananias. His wife had grace or a chance to repent, even though she didn't know what her husband did-but she did not take the opportunity when given the chanse when Peter asked her the question " How much did you sell it for"-in that we see her chance of missing GRACE and being able to repent.

Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is the sin that is unto death-because it is the sin that can never be forgiven, neither in this world, nor the one to come.

Apostasy is also another sin that is unto death. If you read 1 John 5:16 in the King James Version, you will see that the scripture references to verse 16 are Matt 12:31-33 and Hebrews 6:4-6. Both are chapters that refer to Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost and Apostasy

 2008/4/4 16:44Profile


Hi Dorcas,
On your note you had "Something Missing". The second half of Heb 11:6.
Heb 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 2008/4/4 17:04

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708


If we are born again by the Spirit of Christ, how can God abort His own Son in the believer and send Him to death?

There is no sin unto death for those that are in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Either Christs sacrifice is not good enough and being born again is just words and we don't have The Holy Spirit dwelling in us forever and the Father does not make His abode with us by His Sons sacrifice, death, resurrection, ascended to the Father and come back in the flesh of those chosen to believe that the Father has given Jesus Christ as His own is a false assumption, OR all that which is said by Paul and John is true and is in effect in the believer and we are as Christ is in this world. It is in Him in whom we live and move and have our being.

We are son's of God and He will not kill his own son's anymore especially His only begotten Son who now lives in the believing sons.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Phl 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Law: Eze 33:11 Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Grace by faith for His Pleasure:

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:

Hbr 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened [us] after their own pleasure; but he for [our] profit, that [we] might be partakers of his holiness.

There is none pleasing to God save One, that is the Christ that is born again in you.

Our only Glory, our only Hope:

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip


 2008/4/4 22:34Profile

 Re: God's grace runs out

In psalm1's thread on p14, [url=]Was Wigglesworth serious?[/url] he posts the following extract:

'[i]Bible Reading-Acts 5:1-20.

Notice this expression that the Lord gives of the Gospel message-"the words of this life." It is the most wonderful life possible-the life of faith in the Son of God. This is the life where God is all the time. He is round about and He is within. It is the life of many revelations and of many manifestations of God's Holy Spirit, a life in which the Lord is continually seen, known, felt and heard. It is a life without death, for "we have passed from death unto life." The very life of God has come within us. Where that life is within in its fullness, disease cannot exist. It would take me a month to tell out what there is in this wonderful life. Everyone can go in and possess and be possessed by this life.

It is possible for you to be within the vicinity of this life and yet miss it. It is possible for you to be in a place where God is pouring out His Spirit and yet miss the blessing that God is so willing to bestow. It all comes through shortness of revelation and through a misunderstanding of the infinite grace of God, and of the "God of all grace," who is willing to give to all who will reach out the hand of faith. This life that He freely bestows is a gift. Some think they have to earn it and they miss the whole thing. Oh, for a simple faith to receive all that God so lavishly offers. You can never be ordinary from the day you receive this life from above. You become extraordinary, filled with the extraordinary power of our extraordinary God.[/i]'

I have to agree.

To BlazedbyGod's post, listing biblical worst case scenarios, and to moe_mac, I believe Wigglesworth explains how the life of a [u]believer[/u] should work.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, and cannot be decieved, as Ananias and Sapphira attempted to do.

The invitation to be being filled with the Holy Ghost (Eph 5:18, for instance) does seem to leave room to be filled with other things. We know from what Jesus said, that it is from the heart that a man is defiled, and of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks (the mind thinks). This is why renewing of the mind is vital for a Christian to proceed towards inner habits of Christ-likeness.

Romans 5
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also [u]we have access [b]by faith into this grace[/b] wherein we stand[/u], and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only [i]so[/i], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only [i]so[/i], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

v 2 [b]we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand[/b]

Romans 1:17
'... the just shall live by faith...'

(Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul [i]which[/i] is lifted up is not upright in him:
[u]but the just shall live by his faith[/u].)

 2008/4/5 7:32

 Re: God's grace runs out

Hi Mike (reformer),

If it's not clear by now, I don't believe there is ever a shortness of God's grace. The shortness is on man's side, to believe Him, and be available to receive all that His grace is able to make good in our experience.

An important part of having faith (believing), is [u]being faithful[/u] (continuing to believe), and this is what many people stick at when they come to something which challenges their level of trust in God. God intends us to do a quick calculation in our heads based on what we know of Him when we look around at creation (Rom 1:19, 20 and Acts 14:15 - 17), and to conclude that He is able, and without missing a step or a heartbeat, to keep trusting Him. In this way, [u]faith keeps the door open for grace[/u] to keep flooding in.

I guess I'm saying that where you find a shortage of grace, you will also find unbelief. Someone has decided to rest their decision about how to proceed, not on what God is able to do, but on whether they are willing to look to Him to make up their shortcoming.

In my view, this is one reason Heb 10:14's use of the word 'perfected' (meaning [i][b]completed[/i][/b]), is a key to laying hold through the Holy Spirit, of God's view of what is available to believers. Unless we begin to apprehend His acceptance of Christ's sacrifice, we will continue to look at our own efforts with justifyable doubt. Salvation doesn't work because of our doubt. It works because of His faith, which we access when we begin to believe [u]in Him[/u].

Galatians 2
16 [b]Knowing that a man is[/b] not [b]justified[/b] by the works of the law, but [b]by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ[/b], and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [i]is[/i] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
21 [b]I do not frustrate [u]the grace of God[/u][/b]: for if righteousness [i]come[/i] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 2008/4/5 7:52

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708


""If it's not clear by now, I don't believe there is ever a shortness of God's grace. The shortness is on man's side, to believe Him, and be available to receive all that His grace is able to make good in our experience.""

Amen Linn,

The Cross was not conditional Grace on Gods part.
That Cross was for the sin of the whole world.
It is for man to believe it and he will be saved.
Who does believe? It is only by the Grace of God that any believe. This is God's choice, ah oh, I said a bad thing. Sorry, back to Grace. If Grace is conditional then it is up to us to be saved and work out our salvation by our own works.
Use it or loose it.

That is not the Grace of God, it is the conditional Grace of Man by his own belief in himself, that is the knowledge of Good and Evil, which put the whole human race in the mess it is in now. God knowing this before he even created Adam by the One that was the most powerful and closest to God, with all the attributes of God that was give him, even the greatest angle ever created failed to stay in God's Love. So Grace was already in the plan of God and that Grace was Jesus Christ and His cross. This Grace is complete and final, it is the Grace of God, pure and undeniable in it effect on man. Pure Grace is not conditional and man since it came has been trying to take the Law of the Kingdom which is Israel's legacy and will still be the working out of the promises God made to them. Christ offered the kingdom to them and they refused, but God's four covenants are still going to happen to Israel as a nation. Abrahamic covenant, Mosaic covenant, Davidic covenant and the covenant of promise that God tried to show Israel when Christ offered "the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand", This was the keeping of God and what He promised Israel, they would rule the world, inherit the Land and they would be God's people on this earth.

That all was put aside after being offered even a final time in Acts after the Messiah was already killed. The final offer was rejected in Acts 28:25-29 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

Some believed and the rest did not, and for Israel to be saved as a whole, it would take the Sanhedrin and the whole nation to believe. Those that did believe are no longer Jews. They are Christian son's of God in Christ Jesus.

The Church has taken the promises of God to Israel and put them into the mix and in keeping the covenants and looking for the promises of God they have neglected to receive the great beauty and promise of the birthing of Christ in the believer and so making Christ Body His Church under pure grace become a commingled law and grace, a man operated religious organization which has missed out on God's plan for the Bride of Christ, His Church not ours.

Pure Grace, that is Gods Grace will never run out, the price was to high to impune it and cheapen it by our good behavior, which is nothing to God. Only Christ is pleasing to God and He that is in us thats what make us pleasing to the Father.
There is nothing we do or can do that is pleasing to God, only Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Thanks Linn, you are so right, Gods Grace will never run out.

Ephesians 2:4-10 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

In the Grace of Jesus Christ, Gods only Begotten Son: Phillip


 2008/4/6 3:27Profile

Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164


Are there any examples in the Bible where God killed someone and we know that they were justified before God and not in rebellion? Or that we know "went to heaven?" Other than Jesus of course...

Nearly all the examples that come to my mind are people that were in rebellion to God.

Josh Parsley

 2008/4/7 10:16Profile

 Re: God's grace runs out

PreachParsly asked

Are there any examples in the Bible where God killed someone and we know that they were justified before God and not in rebellion? Or that we know "went to heaven?" Other than Jesus of course...

I am reminded of Ron Bailey's comment in this old thread:

[url=]Did Moses see God?[/url]

Here is the end of his last post on that page:

'I don't know whether it is being used figuratively or literally of Moses, but the impression is of virility and life rather than an old man ready to lie down for his last sleep. We need to remember too that the 'exodus' generation were the recipients of some extraordinary blessings;

[color=6633FF]Deut. 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

Psa. 105:37 He brought them forth also with silver and gold: and there was not one feeble person among their tribes.[/color]

It might appear from this that all the hundreds of thousands who died in the wilderness did not die of 'natural causes' but as a result of God's timed executions?'

Might this apply to Aaron also?

Not in the exact same category, but considering the faith of Mary and Martha, how do we read the (first) death of Lazarus?

Just a few thoughts.

 2008/4/7 12:07

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708


First why the question?

""Are there any examples in the Bible where God killed someone and we know that they were justified before God and not in rebellion? Or that we know "went to heaven?" Other than Jesus of course""

Act 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

I think Paul was justified. Even unto his death.

And Peter, Phillip, and even others for Christs Name Sake.

Were we not all crucified with Christ.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

In Christ: Phillip


 2008/4/8 1:55Profile

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