Hi Matt, first of all I have no , nor is there any dispute with repentcanada. We are discussing a point in which we differ.
You say that you agree with repentcanada and then proceed to partially make my point. As for the Scriptures that you partially quoted, you must know that they are written to those who consider themselves to be part of the Church, this is very different from those of thr world. There is one way of dealing with those who claim to to be and are members of our churches, and another for those of the world. You have co-mingled them Matt. In Jude we are taught to make a distintion between those who are weak and those who are wilful. When we have discerned that, then we know how to move forward. We are not to have fellowship with those who claim to be saints yet live boldy as sinners. This has nothing to do with the world. For as we know, God so loved the world..........Did Jesus cut Himself of from the world? Did Jesus only walk with the "saints?" Where was it Jesus was to be found? Amangst those who "were not sick?"
The world must know us by our love. It is this love that brings conviction, in this there is balance. We love, the Holy Spirit convicts.We do not condemn, we seek to save the lost. We do our part, the Holy Spirit does His work.
Now, if you rightly quote Jude and are talking about how we should deal with those who are amongst us, in our churches, then I would agree with you Matt. Recognize the weak amongst us and reprove them with love, recognize the wilful and remind them of the fate that awaits them, if they continue on their path then put them out.
I have a question Matt, how many people did your former Pastor ask to leave his church because of their conduct? Yes, balance in everything...........Frank http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com
| 2008/3/17 10:20|
| Re: How would your co-workers describe you?|
So I take it you didnt bother listening to the articles suggested then?
I too, cant quite tie together some of the things you have said.
Without the commandments there would be no knowledge of sin. What did Jesus say - that He came not to do away with the commandments but to fulfil them. Numerous times we are told to keep the commandments. Am I legalistic and unloving therefore?
I'm confused by this article to a certain extent - is there an adjenda I dont know about?
| 2008/3/17 11:05||Profile|
Your right, I did not listen to the tapes or sermons cited :) Not because I have any problem doing that, more because of time. I would say that we ahve been called to be workmen in regard to the Word and we should know the Word and always be ready to give an answer for what we believe. I would rather hear what repentcanada has to say, with quotes to back it up would be fine. As for an agenda :) Not sure what to say to that :) Yes, I guess I do. My agenda would be the downfall of self-righteousness, a moving of God,s people into His presence, and an outpouring of genuine Biblical love that would rock the world.
As for the question in regard to commandments and keeping them(I would rather categorize it as being under the law or not) That is a big subject and you can do your own research on that notmyown :) I suggest that you focus on Hebrews, you will find the answer in that book. For a clue as to where I stand, I would say that not only are we justified by faith, we are also sanctified by faith.........Frank
| 2008/3/17 11:56|
Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth -Jn 17:17
Claim it by faith all you want but its only through the Word and obedience to it that sanctification comes.
I am not doubting your sincerity but I'm tired of hearing of prophetic words and those who 'God' speaks to so clearly in visions and yet I see no lasting fruit. I'm sick of people hearing things in their head and claiming God has spoken yet it doesnt sit right with the scriptures. Not necessarily having a go at you by the way.
What part of Hebrews do you refer to that confirms the commandments are of no value?
Go listen to Keith Daniels if you want to hear a man of God. There a number others speakers who have blessed me too but too many are trying to make some unique statement at the expense of the teaching of the word and I've yet to hear a decent message, based on a vision or dream, which has spoken to my life.
If it sounds like I'm a bit dispondant well yes, maybe I am but I'm sick of opinions and sick of self-righteousness and sick of powerlessness which I find all around me.
Where are the Holy men of God who are sickened by the world, who hate the sin of men, who cry to God for revival and preach an uncompromising message for repentance and righteousness? Very few in my part of the world!!
| 2008/3/17 13:51||Profile|
Hi notmyown you wrote
"I am not doubting your sincerity but I'm tired of hearing of prophetic words and those who 'God' speaks to so clearly in visions and yet I see no lasting fruit. I'm sick of people hearing things in their head and claiming God has spoken yet it doesnt sit right with the scriptures."
I have to be honest, I have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you have this thread mixed up with another. Have you actually read this post? There are no prophetic words in this post???????
The point I was trying to make to repencanada is that he should have his own opinion based on his own study of the word instead of always getting teachings from tapes and sermons and other peoples opinions. Now you tell me to go and listen to Keith Daniels for some reason(I have and I liked what I heard) The point of me not telling you where in Hebrews is that you would study yourself.
So :) Here is what I am tired of, lazy Christians who do not take the time to study the Word(I am not saying that is you) but get all there teaching through others, TV, radio ect. So again I would say, if you want to know what the Scriptures say about the Law and how it relates to Christians, read and study the book of Hebrews. Nothing whacky about that, just a sign of a Berean...............Frank
PS. my sanctification is by faith(Please read the book of Galatians, not a big book:)
| 2008/3/17 14:40|
I know what I believe -I just wondered how you ended up discounting the Law when my studies do not allow me to do that.
The prophesying comments more relate to parts of your web link.
Anyway. I'm not on form for debates - seen enough of them on here and bible I read relates well to what other men of God say (like Keith Daniels) that the law is not done away with but through Christ we can fulfill the law in our lives.
Sanctification comes by faith? Yes and faith comes from hearing the word of God :) All boils down to obedience to the word.
| 2008/3/17 15:32||Profile|
Ok notmyown, just keeping it real...you wrote........"The prophesying comments more relate to parts of your web link." If that is the case :) Then I assume you are saying that I have no fruit? Or some how I am a "name it and claim it," which of course I am not. Anyway, all personal judging aside you made this comment "but through Christ we can fulfill the law in our lives."
I would simply say that if one is a genuine Christian, then it would be past tense and not furure tense, meaning that if you are in Christ then the Law is fulfilled, and to use the word from Hebrews, "annulled." I am no longer operating under the Law, but through the Holy Spirit. Is this a license to sin? As Paul says, "God forbid." Only a religious person could ever make the charge that this would be a licence to sin.(and I am not talking about you brother, unless you make the charge :)
Finally you write "Sanctification comes by faith? Yes and faith comes from hearing the word of God :) All boils down to obedience to the word."
Faith for sanctification does not come down to hearing the word brother. If faith came down to hearing the word then the churches would be full of gloriously sanctified people, which I would say that it is not. Faith comes through the Spirit of God, to a yielded, surrendered soul ,and the Holy Spirit illuminates the word. The key element is the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit we have Pharisees, experts in the word, tithe mint and cumin, but inside full of dead mens bones. So, no presence of God, we end up with religious people who are doomed to fail, no matter how hard they try and how much they want to be obedient, we end up with a Romans 7 situation. They might be very nice religious people, very morally minded and upstanding memebers of society, good members of the church, yet outside of His presence that is all they will ever be. It is to those who walk after the Spirit is the promise made.
Romans 8:1-2 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:3-4 (KJV)
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:5-6 (KJV)
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:7-8 (KJV)
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
| 2008/3/17 16:22|
I agree with all you said in your last post brother.
| 2008/3/17 18:03||Profile|
:-) notmyown. That makes me nervous :-) ..............Frank
PS If you find anything that you believe to be unbiblical on my website, please do not hesitate to let me know. Jesus is my life, and I stand upon the Word of God. And while the Lord does speak to me :-) That does not put me in a camp that I think you may be referring to, and if I am right, i imagine that we both totally agree on that subject.
| 2008/3/17 18:15|