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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Old man and Flesh...Different?

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 Re:

I think it goes like this:

A Christian has an old nature from his physical birth and a new nature from his spiritual birth. The New Testament contrasts these two natures and gives them various names which are more or less synonyms:

Old Nature

“our old man” (Romans 6:6 note)

“the flesh” (Galatians. 5:24)

“corruptible seed” (1 Peter 1:23 note)


VS

New Nature

“the new man” (Colossians. 3:10 note)

“the Spirit” (Galatians. 5:17)

“God’s seed” (1 John 3:9)

I do believe these are used interchangeably.

Katy

 2008/3/4 17:27
BeYeDoers
Member



Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

I remember Ron B. (philologos) discussing this once. I THINK (don't want to put words into his mouth) he said something to the effect of our flesh is individual lust against the spirit we all carry with us but there was one "corporate" old man (singular) that was crucified with Christ.
Just throwing something else into the mix.


_________________
Denver McDaniel

 2008/3/4 18:22Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I simply mean that if we don't believe the old man is dead, we are not going to find him dead in our experience. To me, this is a pivotal point for our faith



Dorcas, I wholeheartedly agree!

Paul tells us to KNOW
RECKON and YIELD to this fact!

I'm catching your drift here! And so glad you said that.

You know, this is the issue with WOF and the easy believeism false Gospel.

They keep the old man alive wanting more and more and more feeding into me myself and I, and don't teach we are crucified with Christ.

Paul says of these, their appetite is in their belly, minding earthly worldly things, who are enemies of the CROSS.

Paul also said I am Crucified to the World and the world is crucified to me.

The lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes.....all materialism in one form or fashion driven by the flesh or old man?? either/both!!

Thanks Dorcas, Great point!
Katy


 2008/3/4 18:55
warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

So with all this information, How is it that if we are crucified with Christ (old man) and that our flesh is crucified, then why do we war against a dead enemy?

 2008/3/4 19:15Profile









 Re: The Old man and Flesh...Different?

Quote:
Historically I know that people have associated the "old man" with the flesh. But scripture tells me that when we are born again the old man is crucified and all his desires

Quote:
The "Old Man" and the "Flesh lusting against the Spirit" is one in the same thing.

The Old Man represents Adam, fleshy, earthy. The New Man represents the holy Spirit, Christ, Heavenly.

 2008/3/4 19:17









 Re:

Quote:
So with all this information, How is it that if we are crucified with Christ (old man) and that our flesh is crucified, then why do we war against a dead enemy?

We war with a dead enemy because it's attached to us, we drag it around with us everyday until we are freed from it when this body ceases to function. When this body dies, I hope I never see it again.

 2008/3/4 19:22
warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

Forgive me but that still doesn't answer the question. If it is dead like our old man is. And it is crucified with all it Lusts and Desires, then why do we have to fight an enemy that Wars against the spirit if it has been killed. (I am probing for answers please be patient with me.

 2008/3/4 19:26Profile









 Re: The Old man and Flesh...Different?



Hi warriorforgod,

To your last question.... please look up on myutmost.org, Oswald Chambers' 'Continuous Conversion', and read it with this verse from Romans 8:

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if [b]ye[/b] [u]through the Spirit[/u] [b]do mortify the deeds of the body[/b], [u]ye shall live[/u].

You are still reading flesh and old man as one and the same. The old man is a spiritual mind which influences the flesh, but flesh of itself is not sinful [i]per se[/i]. It becomes sinful if this is what we use it for. But, as Paul explains in Romans 6, flesh can be made to serve righteousness, rather than sin.

One last thought... philologos posted a series of explanations in a thread started by PreachParsly, called 'What is sin?' You might get a better sense of what I'm trying to say from those replies, also.

Thanks.



To Katy.... :-D Thanks also.



 2008/3/4 19:29
warriorofgod
Member



Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 193


 Re:

I thank you for the article but that really didn't help me too much. Maybe it is because I'm tired. Im going to bed ya'll. I talk to you guys later.

 2008/3/4 19:35Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Brother, God has slain the old man with Christ and Son has set us free indeed. Anyone who has been genuinely spirit-regenerated is free from the "old man" and is now a "new creature" in Christ. This "new man" delights to do God's will (as opposed to the the "old man" who delighted in sin), but this "new man" in Christ must be fed and renewed daily through prayer and meditation on the Word if he is to stand strong and well-armoured in the continuous onslaught of the world, the flesh and the devil. The war is between the "new man" and this trinity of opposition, but not with the "old man" and the "new man".

Take it from me, I'm a mortician. I see dead men everyday of all shapes, ages, skin colors...but I've yet to see one leap from a casket and attack me. And I certainly don't drag them around with me. It would be time to start looking for a new profession were that to happen...


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Paul Frederick West

 2008/3/4 19:40Profile





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