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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : THE MENACE OF THE RELIGIOUS MOVIE by A.W. Tozer

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ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
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 Re:

Hello...

Although I agree with the spirit of what Brother Tozer was saying, I might point to a slight disagreement. A movie, in and of itself, is not necessarily a [i]sinful[/i] thing.

I have traveled deep into the rugged Sierra Madre Occidental mountains of southwestern Chihuahua, Mexico. The indigenous Tarahumara speak a language that has never fully been deemed a "written language" -- particularly since nearly 100% of the people are illiterate. These people live in caves and small huts that are far away from any sort of modern influence. Most of the Tarahumara do not speak Spanish. In fact, many of them are unaware of the existence of Mexico. Most of these 120,000-160,000 people are confined to the dense ranges that surround their villages.

One of the most powerful tools for bringing the Gospel was through the "Jesus Film Project." This old film about the life of Christ has had a considerable impact in the region. I have seen the tears when these "animists" (believers in multiple souls and gods) come to a realization that there is one god who created all things. When they see that this God came to Earth and walked amongst us only to be killed by the people that He loved -- they are cut to the heart.

Such films are not used to [i]entertain[/i]. They are used to educate and enlighten. I might add that the films (for this is what they are) of great sermons that are included here at SermonIndex have helped me immensely.

If I remember correctly, Brother Leonard Ravenhill mentioned watching the birth of a giraffe (or some sort of animal) during his [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1702]interview[/url]. It was as if the documentary served as a parable that spoke about the agony of the birthing process. How is this different from the writings of John Bunyan in his allegorical [i]Pilgrim's Progress[/i] story?

I suppose that the consideration might be our motives for such things. Are we watching merely to [i]pass the times[/i] -- times that are very valuable and cannot afford to be wasted? Are we learning something from what we watch -- something that is heightened or augmented from mere words? Television (like the internet) certainly has the potential of being a time-waster. But it can also serve as a means of education. I might never have been able to attend a Carter Conlon sermon, but technology has made it a possibility. This is wonderful since so much of a sermon is perceived by what is unsaid -- when you can see the message in the mannerism and expressions of the speaker.

There is a plethora of evil available via television (and the internet). But there is also the potential for education, news, and encouragement. While the great majority is useless -- I personally enjoy watching educational programs. While I agree with Tozer's urgency in this issue, we might consider that such absolutes are rarely true in every circumstance. There are other questions to ask ourselves before we go about watching a program or film. First of these should be the spiritual benefit or the benefit that can be brought to the Kingdom of God in regard to these things.

:-(


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Christopher

 2008/2/28 11:12Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
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 Re:

Quote:
One of the most powerful tools for bringing the Gospel was through the "Jesus Film Project." This old film about the life of Christ has had a considerable impact in the region. I have seen the tears when these "animists" (believers in multiple souls and gods) come to a realization that there is one god who created all things. When they see that this God came to Earth and walked amongst us only to be killed by the people that He loved -- they are cut to the heart.



This is wonderful, brother. Do the Tarahumara have a Bible in their own language?


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Paul Frederick West

 2008/2/28 11:22Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
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 Re:

Quote:
But are these one and the same? Allegory and acting? The hypothetical and the hypocritical? God uses both - and hence our dilemma. I would rather not split hairs over this, but just live and preach the gospel without being a stumbling block to others.



This is a good question. I think the issue involves 3 things:

1) What is God leading us to do as we sincerely seek Him for direction?
2) What is the character of the men and women involved?
3) What is the purpose in doing a theatrical presentation to begin with?

Finney once stated that he believed that preachers should be made to go to acting school because they take something that is true, real and lively and make it look dead an unrealistic. Actors take something that is 'made up' and make it come to life.

I believe God can and has goven direction to folk to put on programs for the sake of presenting the Gospel or some message that people need to hear. Few people read. Fewer people can handle a lecture. I like to read and I like to lecture. I cannot impose these preferences on others and look on them with disdain because they do not receive things as I do. it's tempting, but out of respect for peoples differences and makeups- I have to view the goal as God, by revelation, revealing Himself to the person.

Information is not revelation. Sometimes information is presented in a theatrical way and God, by revelation, reveals Himself to the person. The reality is, not everyone reads all the time and meditates on God's word all the time. Some people cannot read at all. Some learn better by watching than by hearing a lecture, etc. Some people learn in a mutimedia environment. I cannot shun the means if God desires to work through it.

Parables force us to do the acting on a mental level. We imagine the prodigal son asking for the inheritance. We imagine him in the hog pen. We imagine him walking home. We imagine him getting the shoes, the robe and the ring. Theatre walks a person the thr process in a way that, to me, can free up the mental resources enough so that God can speak to them or reveal Himself. It can, in my mind, help facilitate the process. Again, it depends on what God is saying to do. But certainly, in my circles theatre has to remain on the table.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/2/28 11:47Profile
LoveHim
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Joined: 2007/6/14
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 Re:

i guess my main question is...

*why do we need it??

really, what is our main reason as for why we need it? is it to teach and show something that you cannot really convey speaking (like a map).

i am not against showing something for the sake of illustrating a point/diagram or something like that. but most of the time, what i see is not just a slight illustration, but a mere reliance upon video or skits to make a point that we feel cannot be made without it. and for that i disagree. what i see (and participated in) in a lot of the churches was a reliance upon the visual to do the work that only the Holy Spirit can do through prayer and preaching the word.

it is not my place to judge the hearts of men or places that use dramas and stuff to reach out or for sermons, but i can feel it in my heart when it is being used to entertain the crowd and set the stage for a sermon instead of being serious-minded and prayerful. and to me, that is the big culprit. we can easily begin depending on skits and dramas to do what only God can do, ya know?

i don't know, that's just what i see with this issue.

ps. if we didn't care as much to be entertained ourselves (tv, sports, hobbies), we wouldn't have half as much garbage in the church as we do now..:-(

phil

 2008/2/28 12:04Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi Paul...

Quote:
This is wonderful, brother. Do the Tarahumara have a Bible in their own language?


The answer is yes...and no. Their language is simply written down using spanish phonetics. But since most Tarahumara do not understand Spanish, what good is it? Spanish is spoken in "border" villages (villages on the outskirts of the Sierra Madre ranges) by children who attend Mexican or religious schools, but this is limited to the few children who attend (usually until the fifth level) the few schools in the area.

The Mexican Government typically underreports the population and conditions of the Tarahumara. For the government, the Tarahumara are nothing more than a revenue generating "tourist attraction." Visitors from around the world are attracted to this unreached people's group. There is an expensive train that travels the length of the Sierra Madre, and the Tarahumara are the main "attraction." The government doesn't want anyone "modernizing" the Tarahumara. The Mexican Government has made it difficult for missionaries to work with these groups. It is a rugged area, and no roads can take you to most Tarahumara villages. I have traveled by 4x4s along walking trails that lead to large Tarahumara villages (which are typically a set of huts and caves spread out over a local mountain range). Most of these villagers have never seen a Spanish speaking mestizo, let alone a "gringo."

Like the Tarahumara, however, there are many groups of people around the world who lack a basic ability to read and write. As a result, the Jesus Film Project film is a valuable tool to missionaries. I have seen firsthand the powerful effect that the film has had on both Spanish speaking Mexicans and the Tarahumara. In addition to the Jesus film, a Spanish version of the the film [i]The Cross and the Switchblade[/i] has been shown in certain urban areas. It has also been well-received during our trips.

While I agree with the essence of what Tozer says, there are reasons in which a film could actually have a profound spiritual benefit. When we realize how large the illiteracy rate is in most Third World nations, we can understand the advantage of a "visual" Bible.

:-)


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Christopher

 2008/2/28 12:08Profile
RobertW
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 Re:

Quote:
i am not against showing something for the sake of illustrating a point/diagram or something like that. but most of the time, what i see is not just a slight illustration, but a mere reliance upon video or skits to make a point that we feel cannot be made without it. and for that i disagree. what i see (and participated in) in a lot of the churches was a reliance upon the visual to do the work that only the Holy Spirit can do through prayer and preaching the word.



I don't think it has to be 'either' preaching or drama or 'only' preaching and drame- it needs to be both. One need not be a rocket scientist to see that the world is capturing the attention and imaginations of our children and youth via the use of multimedia and other modern methods of [i]communication[/i]. It would be the highest tragedy and greatest victory for the enemy for the Church to abandon these means. Men do not weild swords in battle these days. Are they any less warriors because they use modern weapons? How insane would it be for the Church to forsake the great marketplaces of ideas and communication? We may forsake them but you can rest assured the enemy has no points to prove and no agenda to maintain. He is in the business of damning the masses. Should we not be salt and light wherever we find our enemy?


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/2/28 12:12Profile
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 Re: THE MENACE OF THE RELIGIOUS MOVIE by A.W. Tozer

Here is something I wrote awhile back:

Anything that we love more than God is an idol. There are many things in this world that people are unwilling to give up. It is things that have such a grip on us that we are unwilling to give them up that in reality are our idols. If God was the only “thing” that had a hold on us – if He were the only “thing” that we were unwilling to let go of – we would have no idols. The degree of reaction that one has to the idea of giving something up is in itself a barometer of how much that thing has a hold on that person. I remember how at one point in my life I had considered not watching television: – “what would I do with my time!” Now that God has taken away my desire for television, I find that He has wonderfully filled that imagined resulting void. There is no comparison between spending time with Him to spending time on anything else. Once we taste Him, everything else is tasteless. All other activities become duty (duty to whom or what becomes the question) and I find myself seriously contemplating the necessity of it all. Of course if it is His will, then it is necessary and is no longer duty for it is in His will that we find our delight.


en-ter-tain – 1. to hold the attention of pleasantly or agreeably; divert; amuse 3. to admit into the mind, consider 6. to receive (engage)

There is nothing more pleasant or agreeable than God. The find the necessity to divert or amuse the mind with something other than God would indicate an absence of God, for with Him such things are not necessary. Man’s attempt at amusement is shabby and hollow and most times cruel – it is usually at the expense of another – and participation brings ones mindset down to the same level which is invariably away from God. More often than not, if we would stop scurrying about long enough to take a look, we would find that in this seemingly harmless entertainment, we have opened our mind to all sorts of un-Godly notions. Like a sponge that has soaked up foul water, we have soaked up foulness that becomes a part of our being – integrated into our heart and our mind and then displayed in our actions and reactions. Our witness for Christ will necessarily be affected because we have filled a part of our self with something other than Him. Others will notice for it is easier to see the evil in others than ourselves - and this works both ways. If we identify ourselves as being a Christian, and at the same time display this foulness that we have absorbed, we are telling others that this is the nature of Christ.


God purifies, Satan pollutes.

 2008/2/28 18:31Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
If we identify ourselves as being a Christian, and at the same time display this foulness that we have absorbed, we are telling others that this is the nature of Christ.



I am understanding what I am hearing and have a great deal of sympathy with the points. However, to what degree is a Christian to sentence himself/herself to a life void of anything that would generate any real pleasure?

I believe it to be a serious error to think that because we are Christ's our lives are to stop unless we are either engaged in the work or are praying or studying, etc. It is the same mentality that says that sugar and salt ought not be eaten lest the Christian find pleasure. This is not Christianity it is [i]asceticism[/i].

One of the first pictures we have of the life of Christ was His attendance at a wedding. Weddings, for the Jews, we of tremendous celebration and enjoyment. Noones chins touched the floor and noone looked like they had been baptized in prune or lemon juice. One of the first lessons we get is, "It is OK to have a good time and enjoy yourself." Now I know we may be too spiritual to partake of such worldly pleasures, but Jesus extended the party right at the point when many would have thought God had made a way of escape by drying up the wine supply.

Understand that I am still trying to purge my mind from years of unhealthy teaching. Most of these teachings were passed off as 'holiness' or 'spiritual'. These were exercises in 'will worship 'that exalted one against the other because the one led a more miserable existence than the others. It is bondage. It is the book of Galatians all over again. Touch not, taste not, handle not, etc..

I know what it is to nearly 'burnout' from such a life. I have been more exceedingly zealous of most all things ministry than many around me. Oh for a little wisdom and balance! Would to God that someone had gotten in my face and said some of these things to me. I wonder how many husbands and wives of folk with these radical ideas are ready to snap or walk out of the marriage? I know sin and compromise has destroyed a lot more homes; but when it happens in your house statistics will not matter. I have known this to happen to people. Radical extremisms are turning off sons, daughters, moms, dads, husbands, wives, friends and foes.

What of we started loving [i]radically[/i]? What if we started a radical movement on showing compassion for sinners and the backsliders? What if we were so radical in our expression of love that the world began to see the difference between the Church and every other religion? Radical asceticism will win no one to Christ. A true expression of the love of God shed abroad in our hearts will win many.

And lets stop slamming folk who minister in ways we think are 'invalid'. There may well be people that recently came to Christ by some of these means. Would to God that Christians would stop shooting themselves in the foot. You be you- I'll be me and let God be God. Live and let live. Assist folk in their ministry. Don't be a source of discouragement. If correction needs to come do it lovingly and not in a condescending way. We could go on and on and on...


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/2/28 21:07Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
to what degree is a Christian to sentence himself/herself to a life void of anything that would generate any real pleasure?


Only in HIM do we find true pleasure. Life in Christ is not a sentence - He releases us from bondage.


Quote:
It is the same mentality that says that sugar and salt ought not be eaten lest the Christian find pleasure.

Christ is not about depriving us of things that are good - all that He does is in mercy - He saves us from all of the dangers that we do not see.


Quote:
One of the first lessons we get is, "It is OK to have a good time and enjoy yourself."


YES! but only in Him. Nothing is truly good or enjoyable without Him - it all fades and becomes meaningless.


If only I could show you my heart - then maybe you could see . . . please pray for me, that He would shine forth. I will pray for you, that He will heal your wounds . . .

 2008/2/29 0:00Profile
daniel-
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Joined: 2005/8/25
Posts: 130
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 Re:

Hello RobertW,


my question is: what is your definition of extremism? In another thread you adviced to stay away from 'radical preaching' like the plague.

Now, what is 'radical preaching' in that sense?
I have read that you have ministered with Andrew Strom ( was that you? ). He definetly preaches a very strong message, so when is it radical in an unhealthy sense ?
Please share some wisdom here, thank you very much!

Daniel


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Daniel Sahm

 2008/2/29 3:34Profile





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