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Lor_E
Member



Joined: 2006/12/23
Posts: 248
Montana USA

 Re:

"..the disciples came to Jesus and asked, 'who shall be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?'


and Jesus called a little child unto Him, and set him in the midst of them, and said

'Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Whosoever therefore, shall humble himself as this little child, the same is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.' " Matthew 18:2-4

Although, it didn't seem as though the original question was "should children be in the church congregation?"; rather it seemed to me to be "should children be a participant in the church service?"

I must say, (sorry brother, a little experience here...)there have been times in my life that I went to church hoping to hear a spirit filled message, something that would encourage me in my struggle.... and instead the little ones were playing their bells and others sang some songs; it was cute, but it wasn't what I really thought I needed at the time. (although I was going from purely selfish motives as well...)

There have also been times when I have heard a "grown up" sing a "special" and was more ministered by the bell choir...

I agree with Krispy that children should be with their parents during the church service, it is good experience for both the child and the parent.

I have been at a church that had a lesson taught to the children in front of the church before the service began and that was very interesting! I think everyone learned.

I also think that we adults can learn much from little children, about what it is to be humble, about being obedient, about how our Father in heaven corrects us and how we respond to that correction, etc, etc....

I have also seen at an "appropriate time" during a service when children sang and it was a very blessed moment!

But, do children "build" the church? No, gifts were given to men to minister, build and edify, the church (the entire church).

Although, we as clay vessels should ALWAYS be open to however the Lord would speak to us, especially through those whom the Lord spoke as they were singing and praising Him on the way into Jerusalem: "Out of the mouths of babes and sucklings Thou hast perfected praise!"

(I apologize for the length of my post.)
A sister


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Lori Salyer

 2008/2/27 18:47Profile









 Re:

Both are very effective Krispy, God will use the both by his anointing.

Also, when u said one of the posters lost u when he stated his 4 yr old was speaking in tongues. Did u get the message of what he was stating?

With Love Brethren, I need that to be known
EJG

 2008/2/27 18:47
vasilef
Member



Joined: 2005/12/8
Posts: 120
ROMANIA

 Re:

Quote:
I must say, (sorry brother, a little experience here...)there have been times in my life that I went to church hoping to hear a spirit filled message, something that would encourage me in my struggle.... and instead the little ones were playing their bells and others sang some songs; it was cute, but it wasn't what I really thought I needed at the time. (although I was going from purely selfish motives as well...)



sorry here, too.
I didn't want to exclude someone's examples or experience with the children but only to check first if these have any Bible support.
Many times we are doing something in the church not because we understand it from the Bible or because the Spirit revealed us but because we learned it from our forefathers; in theory and practice.
So we must constantly renew our mind and get in line with the Scriptures not the other way around.


_________________
Vasile Filip

 2008/2/28 3:53Profile
Lor_E
Member



Joined: 2006/12/23
Posts: 248
Montana USA

 Re:

Quote:
Many times we are doing something in the church not because we understand it from the Bible or because the Spirit revealed us but because we learned it from our forefathers; in theory and practice.



I would say that is quite an understatement! Far, far too many times churches gather in tradition having lost the freshness of communication with the Spirit of God, unfortunately.

Just one more verse regarding the responsibility of the parent to teach their children:
"And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shall talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up." Ex 6:7

The gathering of believers is many sided; but the church building does not necessarily represent the church, rather we are the church and the building represents to many a place to seek for some spiritual significance, a place of solace, a place of understanding... many, many things in this day; but those who are being built together within the structure (whatever that may be home or on the corner..) must use wisdom not to exclude, but not to pander to either.

By the way, D.L. Moody who began the Sunday School program in many ways believed it a tool for outreach, and in many cases it is. Many unsaved people send their children to church and only attend when their children are in a function.

Thanks and God Bless,
Lori


_________________
Lori Salyer

 2008/2/28 7:44Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Kids and church

Quote:
Who is a better influence on 6 yr old kids? Mature adults? Or a class room full of other 6 yr old kids?


Ahhhh, What about socialization?!? (Sorry, I just had to throw this one in.:-x) Krispy, you have not doubt received that objection countless times. I did when I was homeschooling. Even the church folk were more concerned about my kids’ socialization than their spiritual formation.

Socialization is the higher priority in our culture – ie, conformity.


Quote:
And for kids who are in the church, but their parents are not... then the godly adults in that church need to take those kids under their wings and mentor and disciple them. But that’s not happening much today either.


As Lori pointed out, that why Moody instituted Sunday School – for the underprivileged.

I believe that mentoring and discipling are more Biblical and far more effective than structured classes. Still, I’m not opposed to a “classroom” style – even from the pulpit. Kids can absorb much more than we give them credit for. We insult them by assuming that they can only appreciate cute shallow stories and songs.

As an 8 yo I still remember the day an announcement was made that a children’s church program had been implemented. I was crushed - because by that time I had come to crave the sermon.

Some years later, in a different church, I remember the minister would drone on over the 52 articles of faith every Sunday. So I complained to my dad, stating that I wanted to hear more directly from the Bible, ex the stories. My dad told the minister, on my behalf, who then made his sermons more interesting. Yea Dad!

And, by the way, back when I was a kid, it was customary for the Dad to read the Bible after every meal. How things have changed!

Diane


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Diane

 2008/2/28 8:32Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Ahhhh, What about socialization?!? (Sorry, I just had to throw this one in.) Krispy, you have not doubt received that objection countless times. I did when I was homeschooling. Even the church folk were more concerned about my kids’ socialization than their spiritual formation.



My response to that stupid question (and we get it often) is "Hey, we're not trying to raise socialists!"

Anyone who asks that question is completely ignorant of what homeschooling is.

Krispy

 2008/2/28 9:18
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Yes, I am always surprised that quarantining children within their age group is seen as 'socializing' them. In fact, it is de-socializing them, because in real society every age must learn to interact with every age.

The twisting of words like 'socialization' shows the power of higher education: (edit: it may not provide a person with common sense, but it sure helps a senseless person articulate themselves better.)

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2008/2/28 13:31Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:
Ahhhh, What about socialization?!? (Sorry, I just had to throw this one in.) Krispy, you have not doubt received that objection countless times. I did when I was homeschooling. Even the church folk were more concerned about my kids’ socialization than their spiritual formation.



My response to that stupid question (and we get it often) is "Hey, we're not trying to raise socialists!"

Anyone who asks that question is completely ignorant of what homeschooling is.

Krispy




The topic of socialization with my children is a funny one for us. We homeschool our children and we have home church in my home as well.

Most, but not all, homeschooled children are more respectful of parents, adults, rules and authority. Most are WELL socialized with other homeschoolers and after school activity programs, church programs and neighborhood friends. In our place of worship, most all of the children are homeschoolers and outnumber the adults. We have tons of children that our kids can play with and that we will not have to worry about being taught something that is unacceptable, or see something that is unacceptable.

I also like when people tell me that I am sheltering my child by homeschooling them. I like to respond and tell them something like...

"There are 10 year olds that are coming home from school pregnent, learning about pervertednesss sex, swearing, dressing like the world, disrespectful of parents and authority, mean to others... So if you mean that I am sheltering my children because I do not want them to be exposed to such filth, then I prefer to shelter them."


Also on the side if children in worship services. Children learn what see their parents doing. It is GOOD to have your children in the services. We talk about socialization of children in these smaller groups, but what about socialization of the children inside the larger body of the Church. There is times where it may not be appropriate for children to be involved in services, but these are few and far between.

Children need to be taught to sit down, listen and obey their parents. This includes during worship in the church. If the kids are not listening, then disipline them anyway you see fit as a parent.

I for one love that children are involved in listening to the messages. Children do not take part in any part of the worship, unless it is during a music time, and this only happens 2-3 a year.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/2/28 14:00Profile
Almond
Member



Joined: 2005/4/6
Posts: 13


 Re:

Absolutely Krispy Kritter, why do you doubt and especially the Socialization part of building a children’s church? When Jesus walked into the Jewish Temple as it was customary, every year during Passover for three days in the temple in the midst of adults, granted he was not 6 but 12 he was in the midst of the High Priest, answering all sorts of questions. Once he left the Jewish Temple and was united with his earthly parents, he was questioned and his answer to them was,

[color=000099]DON’T YOU KNOW THAT I MUST BE ABOUT MY FATHER’S BUSINESS….[/color]

 2008/2/28 17:25Profile
Almond
Member



Joined: 2005/4/6
Posts: 13


 Re:

[color=000099]Shouldn’t this be our mindset?[/color]

 2008/2/28 17:27Profile





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