SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : In the "About" Section of SI - Trinity Baptism

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Quote:
Whatever the case, I for one do not want to be contentious among you all and wish all of us only goodness and grace from God.

Brother Chris, I want to thank you for your post.

The Reformers were contentious against the Catholic Church. They had issues with her that needed to be addressed. Jude says that we are to contend for the faith that was once delivered to the saints.

Our faith today is being questioned, picked apart and thrown out all because we claim the name of Jesus Christ as our LORD and Saviour.

My contention with the Trinity baptism is in name only, it's not the formula, it's not the method, it's not the style it's name only.

Yes all the fullness of the Godhead was in Christ Jesus, but it also says,
Quote:
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Salvation is in the name of Jesus.

I ask anyone again, did the book of Acts mention a trinity baptism or was it in the name of Jesus Christ?

 2008/2/24 11:32









 Re:

Quote:
If a 12 year old opens a bible, it will read:Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Your confusion is that you haven't read my question. I am going to quote my question again and then I will point out why your confused about my question.
Quote:
Without getting into some scholarly mode of thinking, but just pretend that your a 12 year old opening the bible to the book of Acts with that question been given to you, where is the Father Son and Holy Spirit baptism at?

Does it say anywhere in my quote that I asked the 12 year old to open up the book of Matthew? Or was it the book of Acts?

 2008/2/24 11:37
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Mincing words.

Quote:
Dear brother, when I was baptised in water, it was at a church that believed in pronouncing the name of the Lord Jesus over those being baptised. I think what myself and others would see in this is that the Apostles obeyed the command in Matthew 28:19 by using the name of Jesus Christ, that is, that is how they identified Who it was they were representing and in Whose authority they acted on.



Very well and take no exception to that whatsoever, again I see no reason to be overtly didactic over this or legislative\legalistic. It is the opposite of it that leaves me more baffled, that to do so as the Lord stated is ... wrong? That is the way it has come across with these questionings and reasonings.

Been holding off stating this fearing yet another rabbit trail but it did occur to me that I wonder why this isn't actually used as further evidence of the triune nature of God itself. I don't seem to recall it being presented as such.

Still the statement from our Lords own lips (if we believe it hasn't been tampered with) stands. What is the problem?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/2/24 11:41Profile









 Re: Mincing words.

Mike your baffling me :-?

Can you do something for me, please.

Can you look in the book of Acts and tell me from the Apostles experiences where anyone was baptized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit?

If your results are negative, then can you answer another question, why are we not following the Apostles lead? since they are the founding fathers and Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone. But please do the first part and then answer the second question.

Thank you

 2008/2/24 11:48
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
Your confusion is that you haven't read my question. I am going to quote my question again and then I will point out why your confused about my question.



And I will point out again in the longwinded reply that we cannot base our understanding around incidents that are isolated. Brother, this is a terrible way of going about things. You cannot just segregate out and pit one thing against the other.

Quote:
Without getting into some scholarly mode of thinking, but just pretend that your a 12 year old opening the bible to the book of Acts with that question been given to you, where is the Father Son and Holy Spirit baptism at?



Over in Matthew. :-)

You are not making the point brother. Try this same exercise elsewhere and you are going to have the same exact problem. Things spoken in Revelation not spoken verbatim in the book of James, where does it end?

You have still not answered the question that was brought forth in the first place. Why is this statement, from the Lord's own lips an issue?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/2/24 11:53Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Brother, I do hope we both become un-baffled ...

Quote:
If your results are negative, then can you answer another question, why are we not following the Apostles lead?



Being that the onus is on you considering you raised the question first. Why are we not following the [i]Lords[/i] proscription?

And by the way, what makes you so certain that they did not in fact do as He instructed? Just because they didn't repeat it verbatium? Brother, it is an argument form silence, it does not prove anything.

My issue is why is this an issue? You couched as a trinitarian baptism if I recall correctly and ... this is a problem?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/2/24 11:58Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Why is this statement, from the Lord's own lips an issue?

Because the Apostles saw it as an issue in disobeying the LORD by baptizing the new converts in the name of Jesus.

The Command:
Quote:
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:



The Disobedience:
Quote:
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 2008/2/24 12:03
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Just went back to something you said here brother and maybe this is the issue after all ... are you confusing baptism with salvation?

Quote:
Our faith today is being questioned, picked apart and thrown out all because we claim the name of Jesus Christ as our LORD and Saviour.



There is absolutely no qualms nor a hair of dispute whatsoever here. It is so!

Quote:
My contention with the Trinity baptism is in name only, it's not the formula, it's not the method, it's not the style it's name only.



But brother, then isn't your contention with the Lord's own words then? Persons. Distinctives. One God ... Oh I do not want to attempt the impossible with this, no one has ever been able to 'explain' this and never will.

But again, redundantly and even adamantly, not as axe to grind, what are you to do with that which Jesus stated? You are doing a fine job of an end around here and I am not saying that malicously, and this must be beginning to look like, 'why doesn't he just drop it' after all.

If I could it ever so bluntly ... So what? So what if you are baptised as the Lord seemingly instructed them, that is what He said correct?

There is something about this over scrutinizing that is alluding me. You have not addressed the Lords statement at all.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/2/24 12:13Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: In the "About" Section of SI - Trinity Baptism

Wow ... now I am really perplexed.

The Command:

The Disobedience:

Are you now saying the opposite? Go back to your first post brother.

Quote:
To baptize in the Trinity is a denominational preference that is not apostolic, for none of the Apostles used that method, save only the name of Jesus.

Rome and her daughters do though.

Why do we choose tradition or some favourite preachers preference over what the Apostles practised?



This isn't about prefrence or Rome or any other thing. I think you are making or attempting to make something out of nothing. But now it is even more confused because you are saying or infering the aposteles were in disobedience because they seemingly did not follow the script because you cannot find the repetive words elsewhere?

Quote:
Forgive me Brother and Sisters, I never expected this to come from SermonIndex, never.



And maybe this is the only reason for carrying this on. What is this all supposed to mean brother?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/2/24 12:30Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4582


 Re:

Hi Compliments, Blazed…

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” – Matthew 28:19

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” – Acts 2:38

We have two separate commands from the Lord. One command is given by Jesus after he resurrected and one is given by Peter on the day of Pentecost. While the wording is different, isn’t the command really the same? Both believers in the Trinity and those who do not believe in a Trinity both preach a baptism that is done [i]in the name of Jesus[/i]. Some, it seems, have made a requirement out of using specific words that describe the same thing. Aren’t they both really saying the same thing?

If Michael Mukasey, the US Attorney General, delivered a message to the UK in the name of the US Government, who is he representing? Is he representing the President, who chose him for this role? Is he representing the Congress, which confirmed his appointment? Is he representing the Supreme Court, who interpreted the role of Attorney General? In truth, any of these statements is true – as is a statement that says the attorney general represents all three.

If a cop were to say, “[i]Stop in the name of the law[/i],” are we to assume that the law has a name? Or is the “name” of the law simply a recognition of the power and authority of the law? It is my belief that baptism, both in the name of “[i]the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost[/i]” and in the name of “Jesus” is really the same thing. It is being baptized with the baptism in recognition of the saving power and authority of Jesus Christ (Acts 19:3-4).

I wonder: Is this debate making “a mountain out of a molehill?”

While in high school, there was an “Apostolic” (in a strictly [i]sectarian-doctrinal[/i] sense of the word) girl who found out that I was a believer. In front of everyone, she asked me two questions:

1. Were you baptized in the name of Jesus or in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
2. Did you speak in tongues when you were saved?

When I gave her my answer, she literally ridiculed my claim of salvation! She said that I must be baptized in the “name of Jesus” ONLY for me to have truly been saved. She added that if I didn’t speak in tongues when I was saved, then I wasn’t truly saved.

This young woman acted quite obstinate toward any claim that I could truly be a believer. When I told her my testimony, however, she could see the sincerity and truth in my love for Jesus. It seemed like she just didn’t know what to think. After a while of “watching me” spread the Gospel throughout my high school, I think that she was finally convinced of my love for Jesus. In fact, she actually developed a “crush” on me. She even told me that “God told her” that she was going to marry me. It was weird – but at least I knew that she didn’t question my relationship with Jesus anymore.

It has always bothered me that this silly little doctrinal question is so divisive to some that they would literally question the integrity of a person’s salvation based solely upon the terminology used at baptism. I understand the apprehension that can be felt because of a difference in opinion, but it seems that the command of Jesus in Matthew 28:19 (…[i]baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost…”) is entirely clear and Scriptural.

Quote:

Paul West, you didn't answer the question, you stated your opinion which you have the right to do according to your convictions, but so do I. My statement was: Where does the Bible say that water baptism is AFTER regeneration and not a part of regneration?


I don’t want to speak for Brother Paul, but have you considered the passage in Acts chapter 19 – in which there were about twelve individuals who had only been baptized with John’s baptism? They were already “believers” (verse 2) and were also considered “disciples” (verse 1). Paul made the distinction about John’s baptism (a baptism of mere repentance) and a different baptism in which individuals publicly place their faith in Christ Jesus.

I’ve never seen the physical act of baptism as a necessary means of salvation. The thief on the cross, after all, went to be with Jesus. It makes me wonder: How many people have died after placing their faith in Christ but didn’t live long enough for a public water baptism? I believe that baptism is important, and that it should be done with recognition to our faith in Jesus Christ. It is, however, merely a symbol and “figure” of our faith in Christ Jesus. Although it is a symbolic figure of the flood of Noah (I Peter 3:21-22), it no more kills and renews “the old man” than the flood killed the free will and sinful nature of mankind (and the choice of life or death, serving God or serving ourselves). Noah and his family didn’t get dunked. They were saved by climbing aboard the ark and remaining above the waters. Likewise, baptism (in my opinion) is a symbolic figure of placing our faith in the saving “ark” of our Lord Jesus Christ. Remember, there are quite a few people who don’t have a true heartfelt repentance yet still believe that “Jesus saves” and “Jesus is Lord” and then get baptized. I wonder: Are they still just wet sinners – like those who drowned in the flood?

:-(


_________________
Christopher

 2008/2/24 15:52Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy