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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37634
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11


I see what you are saying but I must humbly disagree with you Greg. We cannot blame one sect of people for the world's problems. I'll admit I may be wrong, I'll probably have to wait till judgment day to find out but this is what I believe with all my heart.

By no means am I saying that the homosexuals are the problem of the world's sin. But we cannot disagree that they are a major flagerant showing of the sinful rebellious nature of man that deserves the justice of God.

We should be alarmed with how sin is practiced publically today, we have been desensitized as a church and thereby allow sin in our camp easily.

I am going to lock this thread now. I do not fully agree with the news items emphasis but wanted to get some points across from it. I am going to lock the thread to stop any further discussions and arguments I do think the intended point has been made.

SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2008/2/23 10:15Profile

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7497


The concept that God will bring disasters upon a community/nations/world as a judgement against sin is found throughout the Scriptures. Isaiah talks about it a lot and then in Revelation John reinforces this point.

Revelation 9:18: A third of mankind was killed by these three plagues, by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which proceeded out of their mouths. 19 For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails are like serpents and have heads, and with them they do harm. 20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so as not to worship demons, and the idols of gold and of silver and of brass and of stone and of wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk; 21and they did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts. NASB

Rev. 16:9-11: Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory. 10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became darkened; and they gnawed their tongues because of pain, 11 and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds. NASB

Many will want to discredit the possibility that adverse weather conditions is a result of sinful behaviours, but I promise you, those who depend on the weather for their livelihood, think seriously otherwise. I live among these folks. Let drought happen, people think about God more. Why? Because the weather cannot be controlled by man. Farmers know that personally. They pray about rain: either rain or stop it, whichever is needed at the moment. You are reckoning with a power beyond man's control. My point? God uses weather to destroy man's trust in the temporal and to look to Him and bring him to repentance! Works here in Mississippi although we have not seen a revival as such - too many have become hardened to it.


Sandra Miller

 2008/2/23 10:17Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Politicians as prophets

"Ratcheting up the rhetoric"

Was what first came to mind here.

[i]And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.[/i] Luk 9:54,55

A couple of different things. On the one hand Bubba is right, the inference of a remedy coming from a politician no less by comparing it to the bird-flu ... And indeed on the other hand the word 'abomination' carries a certain severity and Greg is right in stressing the sinfulness of sin, even this one in particular.

Where I am having a difficult time of it is in dictating those things we have no understanding of; [i]this is that or this is the cause.[/i]

[i]There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.[/i] Luk 13:1-5

[i]Suppose ye[/i]? isn't this the very trouble? [i]Think ye[/i]? Presumption is the word. If we are going to apply this kind of logic we are going to be met with a whole lot more questions than answers. Why wasn't the Vatican destroyed because of the abominable actions of priests against [i]children[/i]? Or the abortion mills that smoothly process murder daily as if it were nothing more than assembly plant? We could go on infinitum, the whole planet ought to be destroyed along with it's inhabitants due to their rebellion and sin, it is a constant shocking reminder just to go out the front door, if not opening ones eyes every amazing morning.

I am just weary of hearing things that 'might be', so presented as actual without any evidence other than speculation turned back out as factual just by inference. Where is our penchant for [i]true[/i]? Not half-truth, possible truth, pragmatic truth, this last one grieves the most, that we will accept certain constructs as long as they forward our concerns. That may or may not be intentional and I highly doubt that is the case here. Just as well, to lighten or categorically put all sin as sin into the same compartment is wrong as it is right.

We forget or rather it is that we find those things that grieve us more worthy of a higher level of wrath and yet forget just how close to the edge we truly walk;

[i]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.[/i] 1Co 6:9-11

Such were some of you. Or;

[i]Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.[/i]

For the constant harping upon it throughout scripture and especially the emphasis the Lord Jesus and the apostles by extension put upon it ... the sins of the thought life; Pride, self-righteousness, the whole itinerary, the 'birth place' of sin committed out of a corrupt disposition ...

What am I trying to say? Who holds the time-line and the lifeline and the line of patience and long-suffering? And just what do we truly know of it?

[i]Except ye repent ...[/i]

What I do fear is that to square off on something like this is to cast it all to one side or the other, that great brain trick we seem so fond of. That is to put everything into either\or constructs or wholesale blanket assumptions which might seem to be the case here. There is no doubt that the giving over as we have it in ...

[i]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.[/i] Rom 1:28-32

It is quite the list but can I also forward something that we may forget far too easily? That the Lord will also show forth His wrath by withdrawal, by giving over and that, that seems to be our current status more than anything? No revival, no change in the atmosphere, God far off and away. Just food for thought.

I apologize for the length as this keeps finding more and more consideration ...

I do happen to live in earthquake country and have experienced them in frightening fashion. In fact, with hindsight the largest in my experience being Loma Prietta, put the fear of God into me like I have never experienced before. I was driving away from a friends house when it struck and of a stoned mind I must mention. At first I thought I had a flat tire as it was pulling very hard to the right, I stopped, opened the door to investigate and ... it would have taken 20 men, ten on each side to rock my truck in such violence. Half buzzed or not, I was paralyzed with [i]fear[/i] and began creeping back up into my seat, strangely, convinced my truck had been taken over by demons. Trying to grasp what was going on, again put my foot out the door and this time looked up realizing I was underneath a set of high tension power wires, that kind that feed whole cities, they were flapping like a clothes line in the wind, maybe ten feet in both directions. [i]Then[/i] it dawned on me what was happening and I put it in gear and took off to get out from underneath them.

A couple of streets over I came upon a lady who had stopped in the middle of the street, panic stricken, she rolled down her window and the look upon her face ...[i]fear[/i], and tears, she said her daughter was following behind her and did not know where she was.(She eventually showed up.)

Many days later found out a number of things. For one, my friends house was on the other side of the mountain where the quake struck. This is quite some distance if one were to drive, it is a large mountain range but his house and that area is literally at the foot of it. All that to also say that much depends on the particular soil one is on when a quake hits. Most of the people I spoke to felt the 'swaying' or rolling sensation but there are areas when the terrain is such that you get this up and down motion that is very violent, such as I experienced.

I was a praying man that day. My [i]fears[/i] for my loved ones, my Ma, my present girlfriend some 20 miles away (no cell phone back then) and her son. How are they? Are they okay? My dog! All these things running through me. With the aforementioned hindsight, this was something that stuck and stuck for a long time, apparently more than I know being so easily re-expressed. It plunged the concerns back into me of death and judgment and knowing I had to get right, get saved, [i]know[/i] God.

All these things ought to put us in a state of true consideration. I have watched in awe the power of monsoon season in Arizona and those there could better attest to it, but it left me just sober and silent to see the heavens lit up so fantastically, the water come cascading down in such quantity in such a short time, hours earlier quiet and serene, now the full [i]force[/i] of it on display. Have heard the ear piercing cracks of thunder that spikes fear and terror into the soul out camping in the mountains ... Others, I cannot know nor grasp but partially, tornado's for instance. 911 and the errie silence of sky's without airplanes along with the dazed shock of what had happened during those days.

[i]But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.[/i] Luk 12:5

Mike Balog

 2008/2/23 10:58Profile

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